How do I get more spin on serves?

[fishtankguy15]

For example, how to get a better backspin serve? I get lots of spin, but it doesn't roll back as much ?!

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[perham]

It's physics: the thinner the brushing is, and the faster the stroke, and the grippier the rubber is, the spinnier the serve will be.

So to improve, try using both your arms and your wrists to get to the maximum speed at the moment of contact, and try to hit the ball on the longest possible trajectory over the rubber (not too close to the edge or the handle), and try to brush it very thinly, to reduce the forward momentum of the ball. A long toss also helps with the speed at the moment of contact, which leads to a more spinny serve.

Some good guidance here:
http://www.allabouttabletennis.com/advanced-table-tennis-serve.html

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

For example, how to get a better backspin serve? I get lots of spin, but it doesn't roll back as much ?!

One detail to know is, getting the ball to roll back to the net is really just a trick. It doesn’t actually matter until the spin is massive enough that you are serving fast and low and the spin is still enough that it overcomes the speed.

If you serve slow, and the bounce is sort of high, it is very easy to get the ball to come back to the net.

But in real match play, ideally, you want to serve low and fast, even if you are serving short. A slow serve is easier to return even if it is very spinny because the slow pace gives you more time to react. If you can get your serve to skid on the table a little, it makes it much harder to read the spin. Part of how you get that is low and fast whether the serve is short or long.


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[brokenball]

One detail to know is, getting the ball to roll back to the net is really just a trick. It doesn’t actually matter until the spin is massive enough that you are serving fast and low and the spin is still enough that it overcomes the speed.

Yes, that is why I practice serving backspins that go fast enough to get to the end of the table and still spin back to the net.
I get lots of points off of that serve.

The big thing is to keep the ball low. Short low serves with lots of back spin can also be winners.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

BTW, I think this post might be worth reading. This is part of a post that was quite an amazing post. But I am primarily including the part about touch and the massive amounts of spin on Werner Schlager's serves.

It is possible to loop this ball by using "brut force", meaning as described by Pnachtwey, by reaching a very high paddle speed..........but it is also possible to loop this ball by touch.......has you described, by reaching a high dwell time (= "grabbing" the incomming spin).

Touch is everything in table tennis. I have faster arm speed on my FH loop than many of my team mates in my tt club, but a team mate is able to input incredible spin, more than me, even with is "slow motion" FH loop. He is able, thx to his touch, to deform the rubber even on "slow motion" strokes.

See this video of Shlager (serves) :

I do believe that anyone here can reach far higher bat speed on a pendelum serve than Schlager is using for most of his serves here. But nobody here is able to imput has much spin than Schlager. Thanks to his amazing touch, Schlager is able to input more deformation than us to his rubber, resulting to more spin than anyone of us, he is maximazing dwell time. And this is what you explain also at the end of your post, the acceleration is an important factor to reach a better dwell time/rubber deformation/higher spin.

It is worth trying to understand some of what Killerspintt was talking about here.

 

[NextLevel]

For example, how to get a better backspin serve? I get lots of spin, but it doesn't roll back as much ?!

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1. Take lessons from a good server. Serving is one of the best things to get coaching on but too many people get lessons on strokes.

2. Practice serving or generating spin away from the table. Practicing serves on the floor or on the bed improved your ability to generate spin as you can practice freely without being constrained by how the serve bounces. When you know how to spin the ball you can take it to the table.

3. Learn to serve with extreme racket angles. Heavy backspin requires you to hit the bottom of the ball or the bottom front of the ball. This requires you to brush the bottom of the ball extrememy fast. Many people hit the back of the ball when they try to serve backspin. I suspect this is your biggest problem.

 

[Dixy]

For example, how to get a better backspin serve? I get lots of spin, but it doesn't roll back as much ?!

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Spin is good, but disguise is also important. A serve with less spin but more disguise is just as effective.

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[tropical]

Spin is good, but disguise is also important. A serve with less spin but more disguise is just as effective.

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I agree. Vary the contact points on the ball, along with some subtle exaggerating motions, and add a lot of variations as much as possible. Take Dima as an example, when he does the tomahawk serve it is very difficult to see where he contacts the ball and even he doesn't exaggerate his serve it is still hard to know what spin it is. I guess at his level folks do not get fooled by motions.

 

[Der_Echte]

For example, how to get a better backspin serve? I get lots of spin, but it doesn't roll back as much ?!

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I can get my underspin serves to ghost back to the net strong, but that serve is practically useless in a match. (Yet it is worthwhile to practice just for the fun and motivation and ability to learn touch that creates heavy spin)

My better and spinnier serves bounce only twice on the table near endline and go off the table. They have 10-20 percent more spin than my ghost serve. They are a lot more effective too. So, don't sweat it so much to make the ghost thing happen, worry about the ability to make heavy spin, keep it low, and place it double bounce. That will help you a lot more.

To get heavier spin, you need the right bat angle, good timing, and the right touch to make the impact. One really important key to this is to be really LOOSE in arm/wrist/fingers both to make a good short area whip and to have the right impact touch.