How to get better at reading serves and returning them?

[sky500]

Hi,

I'm just so bad at receiving serves. I would say if it's backspin, I'm kind of confident to push them but I'm so bad at returning sidespin, float or topspin serves.

Maybe I don't read them correctly and just play them as backspin or they are not as spinny as I thought.

How can I improve my return game? Any idea.

 

[anjoooo]

My advice is to focus on topspin vs backspin first. Topspin serves will jump towards you. Backspin serves will float a little bit and will usually be slower (not always true but use it as a basis for learning).

Float serves are relatively easy because you'll be able to see the label on the ball.

After you've mastered the above then concentrate on sidespin. Sidespin is also relatively easy to distinguish between left and right. Left sidespin serves (from your opponent's point of view) will jump to your left. Right sidespin will jump to your right.

Of course things get tricky when they start to serve all sorts of different serves in a match and that's what makes this sport so interesting (and hard!). Get someone who can serve well to serve at you for half an hour every session. Also ask lots of different people to serve at you for practice as people have different styles (especially at club level). Good luck!

 

[Gozo Aruna]

let's simplify things:

1. Treat sidespin as topspin
2. You are left with either top or backspin.
3. Backspin usually bounce lower and come slower ( usually ) but not always as some clever player can manipulate serve better.
4.Topspin usually bounce higher.
5. Topspin = drive / smash
6. Backspin = push / loop / lift / open up.

Good luck.

 

[Brs]

How closely do you look at the serve as it happens? Many times people don't see the spin simply because they aren't looking for it with full attention.

It helps a ton if you can get someone to serve at you and not play out the points. Like serve/receive multiball. If the other players where you are won't do that it would be worth paying a coach (or a decent player) for two or three hours of serving. Since you are paying you can control the serves in a way that isn't possible in games. Ask them to repeat one you struggle with, or mix up side and backspin, change between long and short, whatever you need.

 

[h3llary]

If you struggle with side spin it's usually a pendulum serve. Doesn't matter if it's reverse pendulum or regular pendulum, it's always going to have side spin on it. Now you have to crouch down, eyes a little bit above the net level, and look at the contact point. If the racket goes down = it has backspin, if the racket goes up = it has topspin.

When you receieve a sidespin serve, does your ball fly out to the side or goes to net/over the table? That's important, because it has different reasons for the issue.

 

[vvk1]

The best thing to do is get some coaching and tell the coach this is something you struggle with in particular.

Having different serves in your arsenal/being able to serve yourself with different spins is something else that also ends up helping greatly to read spin when receiving yourself. Correlation is not causation of course, but a great many of players who complain of being unable to read spin on serves are very often also unable to serve with any variety whatsoever.

When you learn how to create the same types of spin using both FH and BH serves, you realize that same spin results in the same ball trajectory over the table no matter what kind of opponent's hand-waving precedes/follows contact with the ball (or where that contact in on the bat) during serve. Therefore these seemingly different serves can be received in the same way so long as you learn to recognize ball trajectory over the table and associate it with spin. And so, if you have varied serves yourself, then watching your own serve's trajectory (and how your opponents return them) helps reinforce that.

 

[Dominikk85]

Hi,

I'm just so bad at receiving serves. I would say if it's backspin, I'm kind of confident to push them but I'm so bad at returning sidespin, float or topspin serves.

Maybe I don't read them correctly and just play them as backspin or they are not as spinny as I thought.

How can I improve my return game? Any idea.

I'm not really a good player but I started this thread about what helped me.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/idea-for-training-serve-receive.32412/#post-433873

Basically you always want to touch the same side of the ball as the opponent does. If he hits an inside spin serve (pendulum) try to touch the right side of the ball. If it is outside side spin (hook or reverse pendulum) try to touch the left side of the ball (by angling the bat to the right).

 

[sky500]

Thank you for your answers. I have talked with my coach. Although he didn't see me play these games. Maybe I have to observe the bat better. I'm mostly looking at the person, which is often a blur if I practiced longer before. My coach told me to be more determined and firm while returning topspin or side spin balls. Maybe I'm too hesitant and I don't have a partner to spar with.

There are many things I have to work on, so step by step.

 

[blahness]

Serve receive is the hardest skill in TT everyone struggles with it tbh.

 

[blahness]

Best way to handle sidespin or topspin serves is a flick or sideswipe. You can also push against sidespin/topspin by contacting it with a vertical blade face on either the right and left side, go forward and downwards with your body and forearm. Short push against sidespin/topspin is also possible but a very advanced technique.

 

[MOG]

The other day i was struggling to return my friends serve.

He asked me "am I tossing the ball up correctly 16sm's?"

I replied "I Don't know as your arm is blocking the ball"

 

[JJ Ng]

The answer is to return more serves and more serves and more serves.

Here is the very interesting part. People don't like to practice serving and returning serves. Serving and returning serve are like 80% of the game considering how few hits it takes to finish a point.

I see beginner and intermediate players even practicing forehand loop and counter loop. I just roll my eyes because, REALLY, how many times do they get to counter loop at their levels?

So to return serves better, you need to return serves in your practice. I like the suggestion that you should ask your playing partner to serve only one type of spins to get proficient with it and then attempt to return another type of spins that your partner generates next.

Such practice is boring as hell because you are not going to practice third ball attacks (i.e. the partner practices how to serve and you practice how to return, that's it. End of the practice), but it is immensely important for your game.

Don't worry about "countering" the spin with some fancy wrist movements. Just worry about lifting the ball when it has back spin. Focus on blocking the ball when it has top spin. And then if the ball curves to your left, that's when you aim to hit the ball to your left side to keep the ball on the table. The opposite is true. When the ball curves to your right, you need to aim to hit the ball to your right side so the ball lands on the other side safely.

Finally, the ball does not lie. That is a very important concept. In the game, the other player may fake their movements or they do it so quickly, you do not know what spin is on the ball. But watch carefully. If the ball lands into the net, it has back spin on it. If you pop the ball up, it has either top spin or no spin. Most most players only have two serves that they are proficient at it during a match. Quickly focus on what those two serves are. And if you are not sure, hey, at least you have 50/50 chance to getting it right by simply guessing.

 

[Nima Abadi]

Pretty much I wanted to say what @JJ Ng said, just practice your receive.

My serve receive is also crappy relative to my other areas so I usually go to my club, see if anybody's practicing serves and then I ask them if I can practice returning their serves. Usually they're more than happy since it makes it more educational for both parties and more entertaining as well.

Regarding sidespin, be confident with your receives. If you receive a sidespin ball lukewarm then the spin is going to take effect and will be harder to control.

But at the end of the day, the key is to repeat and practice, repeat and practice, and then repeat and practice a bit more .

 

[blahness]

The answer is to return more serves and more serves and more serves.

Here is the very interesting part. People don't like to practice serving and returning serves. Serving and returning serve are like 80% of the game considering how few hits it takes to finish a point.

I see beginner and intermediate players even practicing forehand loop and counter loop. I just roll my eyes because, REALLY, how many times do they get to counter loop at their levels?

So to return serves better, you need to return serves in your practice. I like the suggestion that you should ask your playing partner to serve only one type of spins to get proficient with it and then attempt to return another type of spins that your partner generates next.

Such practice is boring as hell because you are not going to practice third ball attacks (i.e. the partner practices how to serve and you practice how to return, that's it. End of the practice), but it is immensely important for your game.

Don't worry about "countering" the spin with some fancy wrist movements. Just worry about lifting the ball when it has back spin. Focus on blocking the ball when it has top spin. And then if the ball curves to your left, that's when you aim to hit the ball to your left side to keep the ball on the table. The opposite is true. When the ball curves to your right, you need to aim to hit the ball to your right side so the ball lands on the other side safely.

Finally, the ball does not lie. That is a very important concept. In the game, the other player may fake their movements or they do it so quickly, you do not know what spin is on the ball. But watch carefully. If the ball lands into the net, it has back spin on it. If you pop the ball up, it has either top spin or no spin. Most most players only have two serves that they are proficient at it during a match. Quickly focus on what those two serves are. And if you are not sure, hey, at least you have 50/50 chance to getting it right by simply guessing.

First part is correct but at even more advanced amateur levels, there's no way players just have 2 serves. Just from placement alone there are 9, also there is sideunder, sidetop, no spin, pure backspin, reverse sideunder, reverse sidetop with 2 different types of sidespin (either brushed on back or on bottom) too which makes for 10 different spin types. 10x9=90 different serves lol. Not to mention speed of the serve, and amount of spin and all the different disguises/followthrough you get some crazy amounts of variation possible in a serve. And if the opponent has a good 3rd ball attack, you're constantly under enormous pressure to receive the serve well enough to neutralise it, otherwise you're just gonna lose the point straight up.

The other thing is that serve is the only thing amateurs can get the closest level to pros (as it can be trained without partner), so there are a lot of very good servers in the amateur circuit even.

This is the reason why LP players have a real advantage in - the neutralisation of this important serve advantage.

 

[Brs]

There are two parts to receive.

Knowing how to touch the ball for any type of spin, or no-spin. And knowing what spin is on the ball in real-time.

You should learn the first part first. It’s massively easier. You mostly see players struggle with reverse spin from bh or punch serves, but some people also can’t receive topspin because they always push. You need a coach or decent player to serve you back, no, and top spin straight, and side backspin and side/topspin both normal sidespin reverse. Give that a couple hours of training time. Soon you will realize that every receive is just you touching the ball in a certain spot that adjusts for the spin. Easy.

Then the hard part starts. You need to have a good estimate of the direction and amount of spin before the serve bounces on your side. Most of the responses, including my other post, talked about how to solve this part. But you have got to know how to touch the ball for every spin before you do this. If not
it’s kind of wasting your time.

 

[Topspinslinger]

My advice is don't overthink, sidespin mostly lands half long so i just attack. If they give short you can be creative, use their spin against them or just push it short. In general the more defensive you play against long sidespin the easier you make it the opponent to attack. Just remember, serve receive is the hardest part of tabletennis.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I'd like to know too... lol...

i think there's really 2 different things:

- be able to read the serve (not only spin but length)
- know how to receive when you have read the serve well (or read it "ok")

for the second item, ask your partner to serve always the same serve and you try different things, you remember the bat angle, how to move your legs etc...

for the first one, it's mostly about playing with many different people with many different kind of serves.
--

However there is a little I would like to add

- In my personal case, i realize that i took the wrong habit for years to take a decision too quickly when receiving, WITHOUT looking at the ball. i kinda look only at the general swing of the server, or i commit to a shot, like "i must do chiquita" or "i must receive with FH" only to be surprised when the ball isn't the one i "hoped" would come.
So I must really change that, even if it means my reaction time is slower because i don't anticipate. in the end anticipation = gamble

- another thing, is i should try not to compromise on keeping a good balance. a common advice from coaches, for example is to receive short against short backspin or no spin serve by taking the ball on the bounce.
(easier to keep it short and will force the opponent to react faster)

However when the serve is short to the FH, with my old legs, i can be a fraction late to get it on the bounce and/or i would still be in movement when it happens. I have also less time to judge the ball and its easier to misjudge the spin. Its better to take the ball a bit later than some "ideal" timing, but keep the good balance, that may limit some options and give less quality to the shot, but execution will be better and more importantly it enables to keep the balance and rhythm to come back quicker and play the next ball whatever comes.

- Lastly my senpai is telling me to look more at the WRIST of the opponent. Good servers can make a good last moment use of the wrist to change the spin of serve. I'm focusing more on that lately and I read a bit better. Before that advice, i was told by my coach or videos to look more at the impact, and if the racket is going up or down at that moment , and where on the racket it is impacted (near the handle or not...). its difficult to look at everything at the same time so i decided to focus mainly on the wrist and it seems to work a bit better for me.

EDIT:
- good servers can put a lot of sidespin or kick and the ball can deviate a lot after the bounce. so if you notice that the server is putting a lot of spin, its imperative to watch the bounce well and stay alert for a sudden change after the bounce

 

[blahness]

I'd like to know too... lol...

i think there's really 2 different things:

- be able to read the serve (not only spin but length)
- know how to receive when you have read the serve well (or read it "ok")

for the second item, ask your partner to serve always the same serve and you try different things, you remember the bat angle, how to move your legs etc...

for the first one, it's mostly about playing with many different people with many different kind of serves.
--

However there is a little I would like to add

- In my personal case, i realize that i took the wrong habit for years to take a decision too quickly when receiving, WITHOUT looking at the ball. i kinda look only at the general swing of the server, or i commit to a shot, like "i must do chiquita" or "i must receive with FH" only to be surprised when the ball isn't the one i "hoped" would come.
So I must really change that, even if it means my reaction time is slower because i don't anticipate. in the end anticipation = gamble

- another thing, is i should try not to compromise on keeping a good balance. a common advice from coaches, for example is to receive short against short backspin or no spin serve by taking the ball on the bounce.
(easier to keep it short and will force the opponent to react faster)

However when the serve is short to the FH, with my old legs, i can be a fraction late to get it on the bounce and/or i would still be in movement when it happens. I have also less time to judge the ball and its easier to misjudge the spin. Its better to take the ball a bit later than some "ideal" timing, but keep the good balance, that may limit some options and give less quality to the shot, but execution will be better and more importantly it enables to keep the balance and rhythm to come back quicker and play the next ball whatever comes.

- Lastly my senpai is telling me to look more at the WRIST of the opponent. Good servers can make a good last moment use of the wrist to change the spin of serve. I'm focusing more on that lately and I read a bit better. Before that advice, i was told by my coach or videos to look more at the impact, and if the racket is going up or down at that moment , and where on the racket it is impacted (near the handle or not...). its difficult to look at everything at the same time so i decided to focus mainly on the wrist and it seems to work a bit better for me.

EDIT:
- good servers can put a lot of sidespin or kick and the ball can deviate a lot after the bounce. so if you notice that the server is putting a lot of spin, its imperative to watch the bounce well and stay alert for a sudden change after the bounce

There are some receives which allow for more room of error when receiving and a later timing receive, which reduces demands on very precise reading of the serve.

Imo the most forgiving receive is the slow spinny opening loop aimed to the middle of the table (if ball is long), followed by sideswipes and slow chiquita (for short balls). Long push (especially with tacky rubber) is also surprisingly forgiving - even if you pop it up a bit its not the end of the world. The most demanding receives are FH flick and short push imo. Any kind of misreads and its mostly point ending. But they are very deadly when done correctly.