I think I unlocked the ultimate cheat code for Butterfly rubbers with Spring Sponge X

[doppelmoral]

how long does the boosting effect last on rubbers like v15e or g09c? @Zwill

 

[Zwill]

how long does the boosting effect last on rubbers like v15e or g09c? @Zwill

It's so hard to tell. All I can say is that after 10 hours both Glayzers and V15E feel boosted. For sure not as much when I just get the racket out of the box but they feel more boosted than brand new even after that time.
V15E maybe a little bit more boosted only but the Glayzers don't even compare to original state. It's night and day.
I can't really measure it but it seems like the Spring Sponge X retains air better than V15E. I don't know if a newer ESN sponge would be as good as Butterfly or it's just about the same as V15E.
With ESN my theory is that rubbers that shrink more can be boosted better since they rely so much on factory boosting.

 

[doppelmoral]

It's so hard to tell. All I can say is that after 10 hours both Glayzers and V15E feel boosted. For sure not as much when I just get the racket out of the box but they feel more boosted than brand new even after that time.
V15E maybe a little bit more boosted only but the Glayzers don't even compare to original state. It's night and day.
I can't really measure it but it seems like the Spring Sponge X retains air better than V15E. I don't know if a newer ESN sponge would be as good as Butterfly or it's just about the same as V15E.
With ESN my theory is that rubbers that shrink more can be boosted better since they rely so much on factory boosting.

Thank you very much for your reply.

Just for clarification, you mean after 10 hours of playing they still feel boosted, or after 10 hours in the box they feel boosted.

I would be interested in knowing for how many training sessions you can feel an effect.

 

[riemsesy]

It's so hard to tell. All I can say is that after 10 hours both Glayzers and V15E feel boosted. For sure not as much when I just get the racket out of the box but they feel more boosted than brand new even after that time.
V15E maybe a little bit more boosted only but the Glayzers don't even compare to original state. It's night and day.
I can't really measure it but it seems like the Spring Sponge X retains air better than V15E. I don't know if a newer ESN sponge would be as good as Butterfly or it's just about the same as V15E.
With ESN my theory is that rubbers that shrink more can be boosted better since they rely so much on factory boosting.

What about the thickness? Do the rubbers exceed 4mm after air tuning?

 

[Zwill]

What about the thickness? Do the rubbers exceed 4mm after air tuning?

I did some measurements with just basic caliper so everyone should take it at face value. Normal Glayzer 2.1mm total thickness was about 3.8mm untreated, after taking it out of the air box I measured 3.95mm so still OK.

V>15 Extra in max so 2.2-2.3mm sponge total thickness was 3.9mm without any treatment and after taking it out of the box it was around 4mm.

These measurements are all freshly out of the box and not attached to blade. If they are attached to the blade I think they become thicker since they cannot stretch on the X, Y axis so they can only stretch on the Z axis aka become more thick.

So will this make you illegal? I doubt it since I bet after 20-30 minutes they become thinner. The overpressure straight out of the box is pretty huge and every sponge loses air faster in the beginning and they lose slower and slower once the overpressure in the sponge air pockets start to decrease.

TL;DR: I'm not worried about thickness limits being breached.

 

[Zwill]

Thank you very much for your reply.

Just for clarification, you mean after 10 hours of playing they still feel boosted, or after 10 hours in the box they feel boosted.

I would be interested in knowing for how many training sessions you can feel an effect.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I usually put my racket in the box overnight so surely it is in there for about 10 hours. But after taking my racket out my rubbers still feel boosted 10 hours later.

One more thing I noticed, when I take my racket out of the box they are very boosted and they are bouncy and fast but maybe a bit too hard. But after a few hours they feel a bit softer but still plenty boosted.
So I imagine this like a volleyball or football, you car tyre. You inflate it too much and it becomes very hard. When you kick the ball or hit the ball it hurts and it feels too hard. But if the ball has the correct pressure maybe (maybe a bit less than max) it feels better.
So this is something everyone (including myself needs to experiment with). For me this overnight ~16-7 PSI then in the morning I take it out of the air box and then it's in my racket case until 4-5PM afternoon when I play with it feels like a good solution.
Of course temperature is also a factor. Higher temp = higher pressure in the air pockets also probably the air pockets naturally expand in higher temp more.

I think this is a bit like speedglueing back in the days, and I am not an expert at that since I didn't do it. I used Butterfly Catapult rubber which was the OG built in speed glue effect rubber, but what I could deduct from speedgluing players is that it mattered a lot when they glued, how much glue, how much glue layer the sponge already had on it etc etc.

I think Spring Sponge X is a bit easier to handle than ESN rubber (V15E) since to me it seems the Spring Sponge X keeps air for longer a bit. And it transforms Glayzers into Glayzer PRO or Glayzer Plus while with V15E I feel like it transforms V15E into brand new condition or maybe just a bit better.
Granted V15E is better than Glayzer out of the pack but Glayzer boosted is just wow. G09c again just wow and I remind you this is with no weight penalty.
My G05 on Cybershape is 45g, G09c 46g, plus 2g per side of glue 45+46+2x2 = 95g.

I can only imagine what Dignics would be like. But I still have my old D09c and D64, I might just well glue them on a W968 and air boost them... But from memory Glayzers boosted are more impressive than Dignics stock, and Dignics stock are very impressive.

 

[dingyibvs]

Not at all. I just put the rubber inside so it stretches a bit. Unfortunately Glayzers shrink a little so if I put them in the box they will return to original size for an hour or more and I can glue it on my racket more neatly.

Tonight I had my racket inside the box assembled and no bubbles appeared.
Also you can see V15E and Mantra Pro M below, the box can fit 2 sheets of rubber besides my paddle. As you can see V15E reacts more.
View attachment 30803View attachment 30804

Are they after boosting? They look reverse domed.

 

[Zwill]

Are they after boosting? They look reverse domed.

Yes, after the boosting. Reverse domed?

This is reverse doming, curling towards the sponge side.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yes, after the boosting. Reverse domed?

This is reverse doming, curling towards the sponge side.
View attachment 30869

Oops, didn't see it clearly on my phone earlier, thought it was the red sponge lol

 

[Leno]

Valid question though, will they reverse doom if you remove them after long time usage

 

[Zwill]

One thing I noticed is that Spring Sponge X really keeps the air pressure well compared to V15E. V15E is also not bad in fact you put V15E under 14PSI for the night and after 8 hours later it feels just right. If you remove it from the air box and play with it immediately it will be too soft.

Spring Sponge X is on a next level, I think I put this under like 10PSI and taking it out and after 8 hours it feels just right. Again if I use it right after taking it out of the air box it feels too soft. Like G09c is sooooooo soft after taking it out it feels almost like some 45 deg ESN rubber. Also it loses a lot of consistency like that.
The amount if clicky sound it has like that is amazing but maybe too much.

So I guess just like with normal boosting this is also requires one to find the perfect formula / timing etc. Needs to be experimented with a lot and discovered.

The tuning box has great effect for Spring Sponge X and for the V15E sponge too. I suppose stuff like Andro R53 would be an interesting pick since that rubber shrinks like there's no tomorrow (much more than V15E) so I assume the R53 sponge relies more on the air pockets than V15E. R53 is a really good rubber (until its factory boost lasts) so I might experiment with it...

I still have Dignics09c and D64 actually, but I just don't feel I need them after G09c... But also in some way I kinda like V15E more than normal Glayzer once both boosted...

And I feel like this air box has some effect on Battle 3 too. I can't really pinpoint it so well like with G09c or V15E but it feels like it speeds up B3 too. It feels like you boost B3 with seamoon or whatever and it expands the sponge and the pores inside that sponge since B3 has some and the box can fill up those expanded pockets better.

 

[Zwill]

One more thing, when I get the air boosted rubbers out of the box and I press the rubber with my finger hard the rubber will have a dimple. You can make dimples in the rubber.
My theory: the overpressure makes the sponge thicker, but once you press it it will loose air and become thinner hence you rubber will look like it has a crater where you pressed.
One would think the rubber is not glues on properly and that is the reason for the crater but that is not the case. Just the air leaving the sponge.

And in my experience as long as you can make craters in your rubber by pressing your rubber is toooooo boosted and needs to lose some air to become less soft and more consistent.

So yeah, a lot of trial and error for this device but I think it's worth it.

 

[davidzhang]

@Zwill I bought the machine
I just put my W968 with 2 G09c at 1 bar, I will leave the blade for 24 hours as recommended by Soul Spin.
As you have more experience with this tool, what do you recommend when I want play a match ? Put the blade in the box for 2 hours before match or leave it overnight and use it during the following day ?
Do you know if I do this process everytime I want to play is "dangerous" for the sponge ? Meaning that it will die quicker

 

[Zwill]

@Zwill I bought the machine
I just put my W968 with 2 G09c at 1 bar, I will leave the blade for 24 hours as recommended by Soul Spin.
As you have more experience with this tool, what do you recommend when I want play a match ? Put the blade in the box for 2 hours before match or leave it overnight and use it during the following day ?
Do you know if I do this process everytime I want to play is "dangerous" for the sponge ? Meaning that it will die quicker

I've been exploring different timings like use 1 bar overnight, take out in the morning and in the afternoon it will be pretty great.
Honestly Spring Sponge X keeps air very well and I noticed even after a few days the boost is still very very good. I'm thinking maybe I will put the racket in the box almost 24 hours before use. I think that will work the best and once boosted overnight maybe just a few hours of top up is enough ~24 hours before.
When you overdo the boosting (too long and too high pressure) the rubber becomes tooooooo soft and too mushy. Thankfully it goes back to normal in a day or so and no damage is done.

I don't see any negative degradation of the sponge or topsheet because of this. Sure the topsheet wears, but it wears anyway too. I don't worry about durability. The sponge is better than new.

 

[davidzhang]

I've been exploring different timings like use 1 bar overnight, take out in the morning and in the afternoon it will be pretty great.
Honestly Spring Sponge X keeps air very well and I noticed even after a few days the boost is still very very good. I'm thinking maybe I will put the racket in the box almost 24 hours before use. I think that will work the best and once boosted overnight maybe just a few hours of top up is enough ~24 hours before.
When you overdo the boosting (too long and too high pressure) the rubber becomes tooooooo soft and too mushy. Thankfully it goes back to normal in a day or so and no damage is done.

I don't see any negative degradation of the sponge or topsheet because of this. Sure the topsheet wears, but it wears anyway too. I don't worry about durability. The sponge is better than new.

Thanks for the info !
Did you try to go over 1 bar? Did you find a sweet spot for Glayzer rubbers?

 

[davidzhang]

@Zwill by the way, did you try to boost modern ESN rubbers such as Tibhar MK or K3?

 

[Zwill]

@Zwill by the way, did you try to boost modern ESN rubbers such as Tibhar MK or K3?

K3 works, I never had MK.

 

[blahness]

Where can I buy this?

 

[riemsesy]

Where can I buy this?

No Tuning Airbox

🏓 New racket cover: Store table tennis rackets under air pressure and use it to refresh the rubbers. Test the NO TUNING AIRBOX now >>

soulspin.de

 

[Snek]

Hopefully some chinese factory starts to make this for cheaper. I Didn't find anything from AliExpress yet