Influence of the blade weight (same blade)

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Hi togehter,

I would like to know, what kind of influences the blades weight has, when you buy the same blade with two different weights.
For example:

I am interested in buying a Butterfly Primorac Japan blade.
They are available with different weights, from 79g to 91g.

Sure, the one with 91g will be (much) faster than the one with 79g.
But what else will be changing with the 79g blade compared to the 91g one?
Using the same rubbers in same thickness, the 79g blade will become more head-heavy, and the one with 91g more handle-heavy.

What will be the pros and cons?
Like to hear your thoughts on that.
Tanks
 
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First of all, there aren't many blades that come with this "variance" of weigth (> 10g). 2,5g +/- is a usual range, and this doesn't really change to much in the handling. Speed is the most notable and often mentioned.

I own 2 Stiga Dynasty Carbon, one with 94g and one with 85g. These definitly play differently. The feedback the 85g is providing is much more pronounced. You also need to adjust the racket angle (ligher needs to be more closed than the heavier one).
I initially wanted to have a spare blade (and I bougth it used and didn't thought it would differ that much in weigth), but you can not easily switch between the blades, because the timing of your stroke changes also changes; most notably on BH, where wrist action is more dominant.

It also depends where the additional weight is coming from. If it is with the handles, you already mentioned the noticable change (head heavy vs. balanced).
If the additional weight comes from thicker top ply / middle you get a thicker blade, most likely resulting in a stiffer blade, which changes behaviour (easier block/counter play, less spin on loops etc).
 
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First of all, there aren't many blades that come with this "variance" of weigth (> 10g). 2,5g +/- is a usual range, and this doesn't really change to much in the handling. Speed is the most notable and often mentioned.

I own 2 Stiga Dynasty Carbon, one with 94g and one with 85g. These definitly play differently. The feedback the 85g is providing is much more pronounced. You also need to adjust the racket angle (ligher needs to be more closed than the heavier one).
I initially wanted to have a spare blade (and I bougth it used and didn't thought it would differ that much in weigth), but you can not easily switch between the blades, because the timing of your stroke changes also changes; most notably on BH, where wrist action is more dominant.

It also depends where the additional weight is coming from. If it is with the handles, you already mentioned the noticable change (head heavy vs. balanced).
If the additional weight comes from thicker top ply / middle you get a thicker blade, most likely resulting in a stiffer blade, which changes behaviour (easier block/counter play, less spin on loops etc).
More often then You'd think...
I got 2 Soulspin Nittaku blades, they differ 4gr (87 vs 91)
and 3 Alser all+ blades, they differ 10g (87 - 97). The heavier on was really surprising., but the heaviest one is the nicest...

Cheers
L-zr
 
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The heavier the blade, the more solid it feels in general. It also feels faster and can allow you to step back and execute offensive strokes with a larger swing whereby achieving more depth on the opposite end of the court.
But, it also depends on your physiological condition, if you use wrist snap in your strokes or do short strokes then a too heavy (I don't think personally there there is a too heavy blade, but depends on an individual) blade might cause fatigue and sprain in joints.
Additionally your playing distance would change, since a heavier blade increases your recovery time in general until you practice a lot and make it faster.
 
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Not sure if this is really unlikely. Maybe not in the running production, but over time. If you add +/- 2 g for each component (1 Blade, 2 handle pieces) you already get to 8g differences from the handles...
The handle pieces are much smaller than the rest of the blade though.
If you spread the extra weight from a lighter to a heavier blade evenly so to speak - most of it will end up in the head.

My experience is that the heavier the blade, the head heavier it feels.
 
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What creates different weights of the same model? Is it inconsistency of thickness of the wood plies? Or inconsistencies in head size of the bat? Different amounts of glue? Or different densities of the wood?

The number of plies at least should be the same:).
 
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Guess every piece of wood is a bit different than another. Trees are obviously different! :)
But I've also noticed slight differences in blade sizes and handle thicknesses.
 
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At the moment we want to buy a new Innerforce ALC blade for one of our better students.

We have the possibility to buy one of these two:
1) Butterfly Innerforce ALC with 83g
around 1320Hz
2) Butterfly Innerforce ALC with 88g
Around 1380Hz


I guess, for sure, the 2) will be faster than 1).
But besides the speed, which difference will be there in other gameplay situations?
How will they behave differently in:
Looping, blocking, Service and Receive, pushing and so on?
Will there be a different ball feeling?

I really like to hear your thoughts on that. Your experiences would help a lot.

Thanks 👍
 
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PakDa, one issue you need to consider is the person the blade is being purchased for. One person will be fine with a heavier blade. Another person will have their stroke speed slowed down enough so that this impacts their ability to create the strokes.

If the person is physically fit and able to keep a high speed on their offensive strokes, then heavier weight will have more solid feel, should provide cleaner feedback, should have a better feeling (less unwanted vibrations, more of the vibrations that help you feel the ball better). And the heavier blade will feel a little faster. But there is a point of no return. For each of us, at some weight, the weight of the blade will start to slow down our acceleration and our top speed in stroke mechanics.

88 grams seems like a good weight to me. I like 91-95 gram blades for me. But 88 is fine.

83 grams would be good for someone lighter, not as strong, less physically fit, or younger.

But this is also personal choice. I know people who, the way they use their strokes has much more to do with racket speed and when you have someone like that, a lighter blade will give you a faster racket speed. Someone also mentioned recovery time. A lighter racket makes it easier to recover faster.

Many of the top pros use blades that weigh someone in the ballpark of 88-96 grams. Here too, it really depends on the particular pro.

Important details to note about information presented above: the reason blades differ in weight is because wood was once a living thing. I have seen Viscaria blades that were as light as 78 grams. I have seen Viscaria blades that were as heavy as 98 grams. The blades were the same size. The plies were the same thickness. Otherwise they would not be the same blades. But the wood is not exactly a fixed commodity. Is it the density of the wood that changes? Is there more resin in one piece of wood? More moisture? It really depends. But my experience is, if we are talking about two of the same model blade then the only thing different should actually be the wood when it comes to the weight of the blade.

And the denser more solid woods (from whatever cause) usually cause the blade to feel better AS LONG AS the weight does not compromise your stroke mechanics.

If you have two blades that are the same model and one has a notably bigger head size, or handle size, or blade shape then they may not actually be the same model. :)

Stiga has done things over time, like older models of the Clipper are 6.4mm thick and now the standard is 7mm thick. None of them are exact so slight variations in thickness could occur. But, usually a blade maker does something to note that something has changed. Also, at one point they used to make the Clipper with 9 plies. I would not consider a 9 ply Clipper, a 6.4mm thick Clipper and the current standard 7mm thick 7 ply Clipper to be the same models. Something was changed in each of those changes to the model.

But you still can have a wide range of variations in blade weight when the models are functionally exactly the same.

In the end, the most important factor in deciding what will be right for you would be to take into consideration the person who is using the blade and how they play. Without that, it is kind of hard to determine if the better feel and higher inertia which causes higher speed will be the right choice for the person or if they would be better off with something not as heavy.
 
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if we are talking about two of the same model blade then the only thing different should actually be the wood when it comes to the weight of the blade.
of course of course but what about the amount of glue used to make the laminate ? It brought up in my mind those photos I have seen here in the forum where BTY blades showed more blue/black ALC than wood because the ALC was not saturated properly with glue and the blades de-laminated.
 
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of course of course but what about the amount of glue used to make the laminate ? It brought up in my mind those photos I have seen here in the forum where BTY blades showed more blue/black ALC than wood because the ALC was not saturated properly with glue and the blades de-laminated.
I was going to ask more or less the same question.....
 
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of course of course but what about the amount of glue used to make the laminate ? It brought up in my mind those photos I have seen here in the forum where BTY blades showed more blue/black ALC than wood because the ALC was not saturated properly with glue and the blades de-laminated.

I think things like what you are talking about are more anomalies than regular occurrences. Also, I wonder how much the fully dried glue holding the wood plies together actually weights. Could there really be 10-15 grams more glue in one blade of the same make as another? Or would differences in amounts of glue in a half decently produced blade come down to more like 1 gram of difference in weight if there is a lot more glue used on one blade than another?
 
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I think things like what you are talking about are more anomalies than regular occurrences. Also, I wonder how much the fully dried glue holding the wood plies together actually weights. Could there really be 10-15 grams more glue in one blade of the same make as another? Or would differences in amounts of glue in a half decently produced blade come down to more like 1 gram of difference in weight if there is a lot more glue used on one blade than another?
Unless one of us sets out to actually experiment and come up with measurable results it is all guesswork .

There was recently a thread that speculated about the weight added by the glue we use to fix the rubbers to the blades. This is of course a bit different but it is quite amazing how weight can accumulate. At that occasion I measured the weight of an XVT gluesheet and came to 2.5 g or 5g for both sides.
 
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Hi togehter,

I would like to know, what kind of influences the blades weight has, when you buy the same blade with two different weights.
For example:

I am interested in buying a Butterfly Primorac Japan blade.
They are available with different weights, from 79g to 91g.

Sure, the one with 91g will be (much) faster than the one with 79g.
But what else will be changing with the 79g blade compared to the 91g one?
Using the same rubbers in same thickness, the 79g blade will become more head-heavy, and the one with 91g more handle-heavy.

What will be the pros and cons?
Like to hear your thoughts on that.
Tanks
core won't be as strong with the lighter ones. But 91g is quite hard to handle imo.
 
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Hi togehter,

I would like to know, what kind of influences the blades weight has, when you buy the same blade with two different weights.
For example:

I am interested in buying a Butterfly Primorac Japan blade.
They are available with different weights, from 79g to 91g.

Sure, the one with 91g will be (much) faster than the one with 79g.
But what else will be changing with the 79g blade compared to the 91g one?
Using the same rubbers in same thickness, the 79g blade will become more head-heavy, and the one with 91g more handle-heavy.

What will be the pros and cons?
Like to hear your thoughts on that.
Tanks


Hi Pakda,

Get the 91 gram blade every day of the week, since you are using this for offense.

Yes, it will be faster at top end (and a few other impacts). The 70 gram blade is gunna play so weak on low to medium impacts... top end gunna be slower too.

The solidness, feel and rebound dynamics are the huge difference.

When you block a ball with any incoming energy, your bat will not "shake" as the Koreans like to say. This means the bat will be much more stable and not move or deflect at impact and your ball goes off intended course.

But it isn't just that. It will feel more solid and easier to manage the shot. you will not have crazy bad earthquake vibrations.

Your well struck balls will also be better for the same "no shake" reason. The ball will more easily go where you are trying for it to go.

The top end power will be noticeably better without any perception of reduced control... you will believe you have better control on the big power shot.

The key is for the weight to be distributed lower... This blade balance at 90+ grams is good, you will like it.
 
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