Interesting how things change - while everything stays the same

[JediJesseS]

When Dignics was released reviewers and equipment experts said it was a rubber that mainly benefits professionals that was too hard and difficult to control for almost all but the best players.

Now several rubber "generations" later Dignics is recommended for intermediate players while Zyre is now a rubber that only the best players with superior technique can use and take advantage of.

Yet nothing changed -- only the relative perception of each rubber. Interesting how quickly yesterday's too fast/hard/advanced equipment becomes today's beginner and intermediate recommendations.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

When Dignics was released reviewers and equipment experts said it was a rubber that mainly benefits professionals that was too hard and difficult to control for almost all but the best players.

Now several rubber "generations" later Dignics is recommended for intermediate players while Zyre is now a rubber that only the best players with superior technique can use and take advantage of.

Yet nothing changed -- only the relative perception of each rubber. Interesting how quickly yesterday's too fast/hard/advanced equipment becomes today's beginner and intermediate recommendations.

the beauty of human being: we adapt.

 

[MrGeorge]

got chance to play with Zyre 03 on Franziska blade. When I compare it with 09c when was released, then I can say that Zyre03 is not for everyone. Dwell time is very low and ball bounce really fast from the rubber, One must have japan legs to utilize this rubber on 100%
But shots produce by rubber are satisfying.
Major problem with rubber is place, the rubber benefits from 2 or 3 position from table, and in close places can be challenge

 

[IB66]

A rubbers characteristics haven’t changed, they are still easy or hard to use, depending on the user.

 

[NDH]

Now several rubber "generations" later Dignics is recommended for intermediate players while Zyre is now a rubber that only the best players with superior technique can use and take advantage of.

Are they saying this?

Perhaps the people who just follow the "newer is better/more advanced" train of thought - But I don't see people who actually know about rubbers etc, saying this.

Dignics has such a wide range of levels it caters for.

09C would be fine for an up and coming intermediate player due to it's slower speed and necessity to play bigger strokes.

It would also work very well for top players (not sure I need to add any more there - Just look at the tour!)

Tenergy (most of it's variations) is still one of the ranges of rubbers I'd only advise to someone with very good shots - If nothing else, it's incredibly spin sensitive, which would be awful for a player with little ability.

The Dignics range broadly kept most of what was good about Tenergy, but made that spin sensitivity much less, so it's easier to use.

Zyre is again one of the rubbers for top players due to its characteristics - I'm still waiting for an amateur player to explain what Zyre does better for them that other rubbers don't do.......

 

[NextLevel]

When Dignics was released reviewers and equipment experts said it was a rubber that mainly benefits professionals that was too hard and difficult to control for almost all but the best players.

Now several rubber "generations" later Dignics is recommended for intermediate players while Zyre is now a rubber that only the best players with superior technique can use and take advantage of.

Yet nothing changed -- only the relative perception of each rubber. Interesting how quickly yesterday's too fast/hard/advanced equipment becomes today's beginner and intermediate recommendations.

In reality, what happens is that most people when they review equipment are thinking about it in terms of what they have used prior and often a subjective relative performance evaluation using both. An amateur can use Zyre just fine if he isn't having to shake off lots of muscle memory from years of Dignics usage and it is an open question whether the amateur is better off with Zyre than Dignics, Tenergy, Rozena or Glayzer. Especially on a slower/softer/innerforce blade. And in fact for some amateurs, for their concept of spin, Zyre outperforms Dignics. The problem though is whether it is worth it to play $120 for a rubber if you don't play topspin at a decent level. And when you do, can something cheaper give you better performance? It is easy to confuse reasonable answers to these questions as being the same with whether a rubber can be used or not by amateurs

So I think it is important to separate how expert players evaluate a rubber and its suitability for amateurs from what amateurs actually do to master a rubber and get better at using it. They are related but not exactly the same.

When I first used Zyre, I estimated that using it would drop my playing level by about 400 pts. Over a month of practice and testing on various blades, I got that performance level to near parity with my regular Dignics 80 rubber. Most peolle won't spend a month evaluating a rubber to decide whether they can use it or not. And I still get people eho tell me I am wasting my time witj Zyre and that my results with Dignics are much better.

Ultimately, my position is that because we are talking a nuanced question and answering it with not with quality data but with yes or no evaluations (yes use Zyre, no do not Zyre, vs if you use Zyre, your playing strength in the long run might be almost the same as when you started but in the first few days might drop 200 pts, which might have been similar or not as bad for a Tenergy vs Dignics evaluation), an issue that is not as extreme as it might sound is being made to sound very much so.

 

[NextLevel]

Are they saying this?

Perhaps the people who just follow the "newer is better/more advanced" train of thought - But I don't see people who actually know about rubbers etc, saying this.

Dignics has such a wide range of levels it caters for.

09C would be fine for an up and coming intermediate player due to it's slower speed and necessity to play bigger strokes.

It would also work very well for top players (not sure I need to add any more there - Just look at the tour!)

Tenergy (most of it's variations) is still one of the ranges of rubbers I'd only advise to someone with very good shots - If nothing else, it's incredibly spin sensitive, which would be awful for a player with little ability.

The Dignics range broadly kept most of what was good about Tenergy, but made that spin sensitivity much less, so it's easier to use.

Zyre is again one of the rubbers for top players due to its characteristics - I'm still waiting for an amateur player to explain what Zyre does better for them that other rubbers don't do.......

Zyre plays faster than the other rubbers you mentioned and it also plays better on flat shots (blocks better) as well. For some players it spins better - I can definitely play better loop kills with Zyre than with Dignics. The issue is not Zyre but what happens when you are used to playing a certain way and asked to adapt to something else. And it is not about playing level as much as some make it about that. My playing level hasn't really gone up or down with Zyre. But I definitely had to adapt to it.

 

[haggisv]

Tenergy (most of it's variations) is still one of the ranges of rubbers I'd only advise to someone with very good shots - If nothing else, it's incredibly spin sensitive, which would be awful for a player with little ability.

While I mostly agree with you, I find that Tenergy (05) is also one of the easiest rubbers to spin the ball with, and heavy spin at that. I know some players at mid-club level, that really lifted their level when changing to T05 when it first came out, because they were getting so much more spin on their loops, that opponents struggle to return.
I think Dignics requires better technique to get the high spin, and yes it's also considerably less sensitive to incoming spin.

 

[mihalichtheone]

Interesting how quickly yesterday's too fast/hard/advanced equipment becomes today's beginner and intermediate recommendations.

Interesting how quickly yesterday's Hurricane 3 became today's less tacky Hurricane 3.


marketing wins, people want to find something for easy wins, but it's always about skill 🤷‍♂️

 

[NDH]

And it is not about playing level as much as some make it about that. My playing level hasn't really gone up or down with Zyre. But I definitely had to adapt to it.

I think if you can adapt your playing style to suit the rubber, you are good enough to use any rubber - Same applies for everyone.

The "bar" to using "high end" rubbers isn't really that high - It's a long way away from the Pro level.

A good amateur can do just fine with anything.

While I mostly agree with you, I find that Tenergy (05) is also one of the easiest rubbers to spin the ball with, and heavy spin at that. I know some players at mid-club level, that really lifted their level when changing to T05 when it first came out, because they were getting so much more spin on their loops, that opponents struggle to return.
I think Dignics requires better technique to get the high spin, and yes it's also considerably less sensitive to incoming spin.

Agree with all of that. The trade off for the increase in attack quality is decrease in control.

If you are someone who can't generate good spin with Dignics, I'd probably (on balance, without seeing them play) say that Tenergy was not going to be a good fit for them. Just because it requires very good technique in the control/blocking game, which you are unlikely to have if you can't use Dignics well.

It's all margins of course.... I'm a firm believer in using whatever makes you happy!

Whip out that Schlager Carbon, stick some Zyre03 on both sides and just swing from the hip!

 

[kapahoo]

Whip out that Schlager Carbon, stick some Zyre03 on both sides and just swing from the hip!

Your average will crash but on those good days...

 

[IB66]

According to the Butterfly catalog (pinch of salt required!!!!)

When looking at the sponge hardness and figures for speed and spin etc ( bear in mind there is spring sponge X & the previous Gen Spring Sponge ) for Zyre, Dignics and Tenergy.
There is a very high drop off in performance for rubbers using softer sponges, it looks like there is a (fairly)consistent drop between Dignics and Tenergy, and again a consistent drop comparing Dignics to Tenergy FX.
BUT the drop of in spin potential is very very big, the T FX versions are down 21 points for a softness drop of 8 degrees!!
When comparing the figures for Zyre 03…….
Z03 speed 88, spin 100, sponge hardness 44
D05 speed 86, spin 85, sponge hardness 40
T05 speed 83, spin 76, sponge hardness 36
T05FX speed 81, spin 64, sponge hardness 32

According to BTY T05FX only has 64 % spin potential of Zyre 03!!!!!!!!!

There is probably some truth contained in manufacturers figures but where!!!!

 

[JoshD]

When Dignics was released reviewers and equipment experts said it was a rubber that mainly benefits professionals that was too hard and difficult to control for almost all but the best players.

Now several rubber "generations" later Dignics is recommended for intermediate players while Zyre is now a rubber that only the best players with superior technique can use and take advantage of.

Yet nothing changed -- only the relative perception of each rubber. Interesting how quickly yesterday's too fast/hard/advanced equipment becomes today's beginner and intermediate recommendations.

Its called marketing

 

[NetProphet]

When Dignics was released reviewers and equipment experts said it was a rubber that mainly benefits professionals that was too hard and difficult to control for almost all but the best players.

Now several rubber "generations" later Dignics is recommended for intermediate players while Zyre is now a rubber that only the best players with superior technique can use and take advantage of.

Yet nothing changed -- only the relative perception of each rubber. Interesting how quickly yesterday's too fast/hard/advanced equipment becomes today's beginner and intermediate recommendations.

Who is recommending Dignics for intermediate?
I think you phrased everything in a way that allows you to create a point. The truth was and still is that Dignics series are rubbers that only pros can get the most from and they are unforgiving of poor timing or poor technique and therefore not especially recommendable for intermediate or below.
The question is does the good shots you play with it offset the poor shit made when playing anything passively. I use D80 on backhand and Rakza 7 before it gave a better result on most passive shots.
I used D09c on FH for a year and while it can obviously give amazing results when used properly it is a monster to actually use properly and it absolutely useless if not employed at your full power with proper timing and good technique so again, not really recommend for players below advanced.
There are lots of rubbers that give better results than 09c for intermediate and below