Is Ai Fukuhara a Villain?

[UpSideDownCarl]

How many people do you think have left TTD becauss of this "bad look"? And would your opinion change if other TT forums in Asia or Australia considered this a bigger topic?

When I post this this should be post # 181 (unless someone posts while I am writing. This is the number of posts by the 9 members who have made the most posts. My post # includes this post.

Score tally:

NextLevel: 33
TTTony: 24
TTMonster: 22
TensorBH: 20
UpSideDownMe: 15
Takkyu: 15
Zeio: 8
Turbozed: 8
PingPongPaddy: 6

That totals 151 posts from 9 members. The rest of the forum has made a total of 30 posts. I would say the top 6 of us on this list (so I don't think the people with under 10 posts fall into the same category as those of use who have more than 10 posts), should probably think about why we have made so many posts in this one thread. Maybe leave it to others. Because, for the posters in this thread with more than 10 posts, we are really just bouncing the same stuff around over and over and I think after 129 posts from us 6, we are not really doing much to help anything. And probably, we have already said what we think and feel on the subject already at least 10 times. We all have a right to voice our opinions. But, I think us 6 with more than 10 posts, what we are trying to say is already up on the thread. People can still read it even if it is not the most recent addition.

 

[NDH]

How many people do you think have left TTD becauss of this "bad look"? And would your opinion change if other TT forums in Asia or Australia considered this a bigger topic?

I wouldn't want to put a number on it. Maybe none, maybe subconsciously people have posted less because of content like this - Or maybe they happen to find TTD for the first time, and see this thread dominating the week and decide it's not the place for them.

I can fully appreciate this may stir up more discussion in Asia, but does that make it any better?

I know there are cultural differences, but as adults, we should be able to draw a line between what's appropriate and what isn't on a *global* forum.

There are lots of asian (and other) traditions/cultural differences that would not be appropriate here.

From my POV, discussing an ongoing custody case about a woman and her child is more appropriate for the gossip columns than it is for this forum.

 

[NextLevel]

When I post this this should be post # 181 (unless someone posts while I am writing. This is the number of posts by the 9 members who have made the most posts. My post # includes this post.

Score tally:

NextLevel: 33
TTTony: 24
TTMonster: 22
TensorBH: 20
UpSideDownMe: 15
Takkyu: 15
Zeio: 8
Turbozed: 8
PingPongPaddy: 6

That totals 151 posts from 9 members. The rest of the forum has made a total of 30 posts. I would say the top 6 of us on this list (so I don't think the people with under 10 posts fall into the same category as those of use who have more than 10 posts), should probably think about why we have made so many posts in this one thread. Maybe leave it to others. Because, for the posters in this thread with more than 10 posts, we are really just bouncing the same stuff around over and over and I think after 129 posts from us 6, we are not really doing much to help anything. And probably, we have already said what we think and feel on the subject already at least 10 times. We all have a right to voice our opinions. But, I think us 6 with more than 10 posts, what we are trying to say is already up on the thread. People can still read it even if it is not the most recent addition.

If you were to look at the stats for the whole website, the same posters are pretty much the people who keep your website going, with some people simply not posting because it doesn't interest them. Food for thought.

All of this is par for the course on a lot of topics. There is other stuff I won't get into but the fact the thread exists is a better thing than it not existing. I am pretty certain of this regardless of what one thinks of the quality of the discussion or arguments

 

[NextLevel]

I wouldn't want to put a number on it. Maybe none, maybe subconsciously people have posted less because of content like this - Or maybe they happen to find TTD for the first time, and see this thread dominating the week and decide it's not the place for them.

I can fully appreciate this may stir up more discussion in Asia, but does that make it any better?

I know there are cultural differences, but as adults, we should be able to draw a line between what's appropriate and what isn't on a *global* forum.

There are lots of asian (and other) traditions/cultural differences that would not be appropriate here.

From my POV, discussing an ongoing custody case about a woman and her child is more appropriate for the gossip columns than it is for this forum.

Thanks for the response. It gives me insight into how you see things which I appreciate.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

If you were to look at the stats for the whole website, the same posters are pretty much the people who keep your website going, with some people simply not posting because it doesn't interest them. Food for thought.

All of this is par for the course on a lot of topics. There is other stuff I won't get into but the fact the thread exists is a better thing than it not existing. I am pretty certain of this regardless of what one thinks of the quality of the discussion or arguments

One degree of difference I would say here is, IN THIS Thread, those top 6 keep on going in circles with pretty much the same viewpoints over and over. Not much has really changed or been added after our first few posts from each of us.

In other areas of the forum, the members who are most active are often giving perspectives that are useful and based on content presented by a person not in that group of posters who dominate many threads. And, how many threads are there where so few have posted so many posts in such a short period of time. For the most part, as I look at any of our post histories, for the most part we are posting in multiple threads and not posting 10-30 consecutive posts in one thread without any posts in other threads.

With this, with any of us who have posted more than 10 posts, there is not much being posted by any of us in other threads. This suggests something of a compulsive behavior pattern towards this thread. Like we could not resist responding to any number of posts in the thread whether we agreed or disagreed with the content.

For at least several of us, it is worth considering whether there better ways of spending our time on the forum.

 

[NextLevel]

One degree of difference I would say here is, IN THIS Thread, those top 6 keep on going in circles with pretty much the same viewpoints over and over. Not much has really changed or been added after our first few posts from each of us.

In other areas of the forum, the members who are most active are often giving perspectives that are useful and based on content presented by a person not in that group of posters who dominate many threads. And, how many threads are there where so few have posted so many posts in such a short period of time. For the most part, as I look at any of our post histories, for the most part we are posting in multiple threads and not posting 10-30 consecutive posts in one thread without any posts in other threads.

With this, with any of us who have posted more than 10 posts, there is not much being posted by any of us in other threads. This suggests something of a compulsive behavior pattern towards this thread. Like we could not resist responding to any number of posts in the thread whether we agreed or disagreed with the content.

Cunningham's Law - Meta

meta.wikimedia.org

A lot of how you classify the behavior depends on your feelings about human nature. But why do people hotly debate questions that often have no easy objective answer? Lebron James or Michael Jordan? Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic (apologies to the Sampras and Laver fans)? Did OJ do it? Zhang Jike or Ma Long?

People are having conversations on this thread for the most part. Such conversations may not interest anyone. But there is nothing on this thread that people haven't done elsewhere, the problem is that some people for whatever reason don't think it is suitable for the forum. And that is fine. I have very different perspectives for various reasons, but as long as the thread exists, I don't feel a strong need to justify them, because the thread is its own reward.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@UpSideDownCarl

thank you for your stats. I don't want to monopolize this thread so this will be my last post on it.
I agree with you, I've posted a lot already but there's a few things I want to add.

What I've seen is that there are a few guys like @pingpongpaddy or @ttmonster or even @NDH trying to call out people with their moral superiority.

Personally I'm not trying to call anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't make a mission to convince every forum member that Ai is a villain and by the way I've not even said she is, or only in some CLEVER and humoristically way.

Anyone can see there have been mostly 2 types of contributions. some are providing context and further information to the headlines. notably to the audience who doesn't know much about Taiwan or Japan. or doesn't know much about Ai-chan.

and others basically just spitting their opinions. those by the way seemingly believe these are universal values, and they should dictate what's good to debate on a forum or not.

what's fascinating is that the guys most convinced they understand it all and have it all right, are those who live thousands of kilometers away from the action, may have never been in China / Taiwan or Japan and don't read/speak the language and may have little experience interacting with the culture.

Their posts have exposed banalities, and basically it could have been Ai-chan, any other personality, or any commoner they would have said the same thing.

this forum is lucky to have Tony who knows personally Chiang, Zeio our Chinese (Taiwanese ? HK ?) resident who is always well informed about what's going on in the TT world and truly yours who has been living in Japan for 23 years and married for more than 20 years with a Japanese woman. I think we made this thread informative and I believe people truly interested in the matter, and not just interested in pissing their opinion have found here material that they couldn't have found elsewhere.

Now because this is the last post, let me give a little bit more personal touch to it.

unfortunately I happen to know many divorced couples. a friend of mine, French as well, has seen his son kidnapped by his Japanese wife. He fought for many years but finally gave up and has never seen his son again. At least he didn't commit suicide like another French guy in a case that was publicized as well. Yes he seems to have been the culprit and cheated on his wife. if you want my opinion, yes, Ai-Chan cheated on her husband but I wouldn't want her not to see her children.

I've also met and spoken with Vincent Fichot, the guy who went on hunger strike during the olympics because he had his 2 kids kidnapped and I am very familiar to his case.

Also, I have had some ups and downs in my own marriage and yes at times the thought of divorce did come into my ( and her) mind. But I understood the risk of not seeing my son ever again if It happened and some choices were made. Now my child is an adult.

Japan has been criticized by many countries for not allowing joint custody and is being "softly" pressured. Japan also understands that their laws are antiquated. if you read the link from the australian site that I posted, you could read that sometimes the abduction is made by fathers. you could also read that those laws were from ancient times and designed such that fathers get custody in practice. in those times when those laws were edicted anyway divorces were very rare.

With society changes, now the existing law has turned in favour of mothers. and perhaps is not adapted. the outside world does seem to think it is as many countries have publicly expressed their concerns officially. Among the Japanese themselves it is now finally becoming subject of public debate. It is not clear where the majority stands on this, perhaps already in favour of dual custody, but this society needs consensus not majority to change such things. this is the way things work in Japan.

Ok so now you understand why I'm sensitive about the topic.

---

now about Ai herself. Everyone in Japan knows Ai-chan. Even my wife knew about her before I did; and she's not into TT at all. She just likes entertainment news and Ai was the child prodigy. You like it or not, on Japanese TV prime time, its not education program where you will learn about quantum mechanics or Genji no Monogatari, but it is about the latest exploits from Ichiro or now Shohei Otani about child prodigies and about the latest extra-marital scandal.

Ai-chan's escapades in hotels are not the exclusivity of tabloids. Tabloids are the fastest to deliver the news. but then it is all over the main networks, (NHK excluded) as a main topic. Celebrities like it or not here, if they cheat and get caught red-handed it will be all over the news here. It leads or not to a divorce. but it almost always lead to a press conference where they bow and apologize (謝罪). Its customary here; its not only the CEOs getting caught stealing company funds, or doing some other bad deed, but yes the celebrities too.

You can pity Ai-chan and others who were in the same situation but they know the rules: they get the upside from celebrity; the fame and indecent amounts of money. But should they not follow said rules; here is the infamy; the public outrage; the loss of contracts and sponsors and the shaming.

I liked a lot and was a fan of Ai the player, as much as I am a fan of all JNT. Ai-chan is kind of cute; but not at all my type of girl but nobody should care about it LOL. but I am not a fan of what she's doing: kidnapping in legalese and not allowing her father to see his son in common English. and yes there may have been "moral harassment" and a lot of heated disputes and insults flying. Domestic violence ? very unlikely as even Ai hasn't said anything about that.. and you can't see any wounds or scars on her face...

What is better known is that Ai is a cheater. and that from a young age she is rather "active" sexually with many reported or rumoured partners. There I can bring to you that I happen to have been coached by both Ryusuke Sakamoto and Hidetoshi Oya (I still get coached by him nearly once a week) who have been reported to have her ex boyfriends.
I may or may not have heard private stories about Ai-chan but anyway I will/would keep it all for me.

---

As a conclusion, its not up to me to decide what's good for debating on this forum. after all it belongs to Dan, he is the one to decide and maybe the mods have their words on it. Personally I don't see why we shouldn't. It's still about TT and the players that we cheer(ed) and love(d).

The readership of this forum are English speakers and Chinese or Japanese are underrepresented here. so it could be natural that a lot of (silent) people side with the line of thinking of pingpongpaddy.

Props to NDH he at least is on the forum to help others rather than boost his own ego.

Its also very plain that there are several actors in this thread are not genuinely sympathetic towards kids or mother or husband, but rather, they are concerned to maintain their right of free speech even when they are exploiting the unhappiness of kids and parents.
I would say that free speech is a valuable treasure, but is devalued when its use is tarnished by its use to satisfy an egotistical. need for attention. THOSE FORUM MEMBERS WILL DENY IT WITH WORDS THAT THEY THINK ARE CLEVER, BUT IN THE END IT IS THEIR EARLIER WORDS THAT SHOW THEM UP FOR WHO THEY REALLY ARE.

However,

I think I've made it clear that I'm a father and husband, I love my kid, and I like kids to have both fathers and mothers. that im not exploiting free speech and not calling anyone out, especially in RED CAPITAL letters.

Anyone whose mind is clear can see pingpongpaddy words that show him for what he really is,

someone who think he is CLEVER and morally above everyone, imposing his values on any subject despite not knowing the ins and outs and not willing to listen to others. a caricature of what is broadly happening in the world.

As for me, I now consider my job done in this thread. I contribute to this forum by giving info, whether it is the latest tournament result, some TT info from Japan, or some links to some interesting YouTube video, or my latest TT tournament. or some context about the latest scandal involving some TT celebrity.

I may have given my opinion but it mattered more for me to give the info so others could make a more informed opinion. at least for those who are ok to receive new input instead of sticking to their priors. but my belief is there are many of them.

PS yes im happy to get attention on this forum. but not necessarily in an egoistical way. yes I do feel good when someone says I've been improving after I post a video, but im equally happy when from time to time somebody says "thank you", very simple 2 words.

 

[zeio]

A lot of how you classify the behavior depends on your feelings about human nature. But why do people hotly debate questions that often have no easy objective answer? Lebron James or Michael Jordan? Federer, Nadal, or Djokovic (apologies to the Sampras and Laver fans)? Did OJ do it? Zhang Jike or Ma Long?

Yours truly rubbed a lot of members the wrong way but hardly anyone cared when Harimoto shared the same thoughts.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/harimoto-in-terms-of-table-tennis-i-prefer-zjk-to-ml-ml-is-amazing-but-it-is-simply-the-result-of-working-and-playing-diligently.31530/

 

[NextLevel]

@UpSideDownCarl

thank you for your stats. I don't want to monopolize this thread so this will be my last post on it.
I agree with you, I've posted a lot already but there's a few things I want to add.

What I've seen is that there are a few guys like @pingpongpaddy or @ttmonster or even @NDH trying to call out people with their moral superiority.

Personally I'm not trying to call anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't make a mission to convince every forum member that Ai is a villain and by the way I've not even said she is, or only in some CLEVER and humoristically way.

Anyone can see there have been mostly 2 types of contributions. some are providing context and further information to the headlines. notably to the audience who doesn't know much about Taiwan or Japan. or doesn't know much about Ai-chan.

and others basically just spitting their opinions. those by the way seemingly believe these are universal values, and they should dictate what's good to debate on a forum or not.

what's fascinating is that the guys most convinced they understand it all and have it all right, are those who live thousands of kilometers away from the action, may have never been in China / Taiwan or Japan and don't read/speak the language and may have little experience interacting with the culture.

Their posts have exposed banalities, and basically it could have been Ai-chan, any other personality, or any commoner they would have said the same thing.

this forum is lucky to have Tony who knows personally Chiang, Zeio our Chinese (Taiwanese ? HK ?) resident who is always well informed about what's going on in the TT world and truly yours who has been living in Japan for 23 years and married for more than 20 years with a Japanese woman. I think we made this thread informative and I believe people truly interested in the matter, and not just interested in pissing their opinion have found here material that they couldn't have found elsewhere.

Now because this is the last post, let me give a little bit more personal touch to it.

unfortunately I happen to know many divorced couples. a friend of mine, French as well, has seen his son kidnapped by his Japanese wife. He fought for many years but finally gave up and has never seen his son again. At least he didn't commit suicide like another French guy in a case that was publicized as well. Yes he seems to have been the culprit and cheated on his wife. if you want my opinion, yes, Ai-Chan cheated on her husband but I wouldn't want her not to see her children.

I've also met and spoken with Vincent Fichot, the guy who went on hunger strike during the olympics because he had his 2 kids kidnapped and I am very familiar to his case.

Also, I have had some ups and downs in my own marriage and yes at times the thought of divorce did come into my ( and her) mind. But I understood the risk of not seeing my son ever again if It happened and some choices were made. Now my child is an adult.

Japan has been criticized by many countries for not allowing joint custody and is being "softly" pressured. Japan also understands that their laws are antiquated. if you read the link from the australian site that I posted, you could read that sometimes the abduction is made by fathers. you could also read that those laws were from ancient times and designed such that fathers get custody in practice. in those times when those laws were edicted anyway divorces were very rare.

With society changes, now the existing law has turned in favour of mothers. and perhaps is not adapted. the outside world does seem to think it is as many countries have publicly expressed their concerns officially. Among the Japanese themselves it is now finally becoming subject of public debate. It is not clear where the majority stands on this, perhaps already in favour of dual custody, but this society needs consensus not majority to change such things. this is the way things work in Japan.

Ok so now you understand why I'm sensitive about the topic.

---

now about Ai herself. Everyone in Japan knows Ai-chan. Even my wife knew about her before I did; and she's not into TT at all. She just likes entertainment news and Ai was the child prodigy. You like it or not, on Japanese TV prime time, its not education program where you will learn about quantum mechanics or Genji no Monogatari, but it is about the latest exploits from Ichiro or now Shohei Otani about child prodigies and about the latest extra-marital scandal.

Ai-chan's escapades in hotels are not the exclusivity of tabloids. Tabloids are the fastest to deliver the news. but then it is all over the main networks, (NHK excluded) as a main topic. Celebrities like it or not here, if they cheat and get caught red-handed it will be all over the news here. It leads or not to a divorce. but it almost always lead to a press conference where they bow and apologize (謝罪). Its customary here; its not only the CEOs getting caught stealing company funds, or doing some other bad deed, but yes the celebrities too.

You can pity Ai-chan and others who were in the same situation but they know the rules: they get the upside from celebrity; the fame and indecent amounts of money. But should they not follow said rules; here is the infamy; the public outrage; the loss of contracts and sponsors and the shaming.

I liked a lot and was a fan of Ai the player, as much as I am a fan of all JNT. Ai-chan is kind of cute; but not at all my type of girl but nobody should care about it LOL. but I am not a fan of what she's doing: kidnapping in legalese and not allowing her father to see his son in common English. and yes there may have been "moral harassment" and a lot of heated disputes and insults flying. Domestic violence ? very unlikely as even Ai hasn't said anything about that.. and you can't see any wounds or scars on her face...

What is better known is that Ai is a cheater. and that from a young age she is rather "active" sexually with many reported or rumoured partners. There I can bring to you that I happen to have been coached by both Ryusuke Sakamoto and Hidetoshi Oya (I still get coached by him nearly once a week) who have been reported to have her ex boyfriends.
I may or may not have heard private stories about Ai-chan but anyway I will/would keep it all for me.

---

As a conclusion, its not up to me to decide what's good for debating on this forum. after all it belongs to Dan, he is the one to decide and maybe the mods have their words on it. Personally I don't see why we shouldn't. It's still about TT and the players that we cheer(ed) and love(d).

The readership of this forum are English speakers and Chinese or Japanese are underrepresented here. so it could be natural that a lot of (silent) people side with the line of thinking of pingpongpaddy.


However,

I think I've made it clear that I'm a father and husband, I love my kid, and I like kids to have both fathers and mothers. that im not exploiting free speech and not calling anyone out, especially in RED CAPITAL letters.

Anyone whose mind is clear can see pingpongpaddy words that show him for what he really is,

someone who think he is CLEVER and morally above everyone, imposing his values on any subject despite not knowing the ins and outs and not willing to listen to others. a caricature of what is broadly happening in the world.

As for me, I now consider my job done in this thread. I contribute to this forum by giving info, whether it is the latest tournament result, some TT info from Japan, or some links to some interesting YouTube video, or my latest TT tournament. or some context about the latest scandal involving some TT celebrity.

I may have given my opinion but it mattered more for me to give the info so others could make a more informed opinion. at least for those who are ok to receive new input instead of sticking to their priors. but my belief is there are many of them.

PS yes im happy to get attention on this forum. but not necessarily in an egoistical way. yes I do feel good when someone says I've been improving after I post a video, but im equally happy when from time to time somebody says "thank you", very simple 2 words.

Thank you!

 

[TensorBackhand]

@UpSideDownCarl

thank you for your stats. I don't want to monopolize this thread so this will be my last post on it.
I agree with you, I've posted a lot already but there's a few things I want to add.

What I've seen is that there are a few guys like @pingpongpaddy or @ttmonster or even @NDH trying to call out people with their moral superiority.

Personally I'm not trying to call anyone. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't make a mission to convince every forum member that Ai is a villain and by the way I've not even said she is, or only in some CLEVER and humoristically way.

Anyone can see there have been mostly 2 types of contributions. some are providing context and further information to the headlines. notably to the audience who doesn't know much about Taiwan or Japan. or doesn't know much about Ai-chan.

and others basically just spitting their opinions. those by the way seemingly believe these are universal values, and they should dictate what's good to debate on a forum or not.

what's fascinating is that the guys most convinced they understand it all and have it all right, are those who live thousands of kilometers away from the action, may have never been in China / Taiwan or Japan and don't read/speak the language and may have little experience interacting with the culture.

Their posts have exposed banalities, and basically it could have been Ai-chan, any other personality, or any commoner they would have said the same thing.

this forum is lucky to have Tony who knows personally Chiang, Zeio our Chinese (Taiwanese ? HK ?) resident who is always well informed about what's going on in the TT world and truly yours who has been living in Japan for 23 years and married for more than 20 years with a Japanese woman. I think we made this thread informative and I believe people truly interested in the matter, and not just interested in pissing their opinion have found here material that they couldn't have found elsewhere.

Now because this is the last post, let me give a little bit more personal touch to it.

unfortunately I happen to know many divorced couples. a friend of mine, French as well, has seen his son kidnapped by his Japanese wife. He fought for many years but finally gave up and has never seen his son again. At least he didn't commit suicide like another French guy in a case that was publicized as well. Yes he seems to have been the culprit and cheated on his wife. if you want my opinion, yes, Ai-Chan cheated on her husband but I wouldn't want her not to see her children.

I've also met and spoken with Vincent Fichot, the guy who went on hunger strike during the olympics because he had his 2 kids kidnapped and I am very familiar to his case.

Also, I have had some ups and downs in my own marriage and yes at times the thought of divorce did come into my ( and her) mind. But I understood the risk of not seeing my son ever again if It happened and some choices were made. Now my child is an adult.

Japan has been criticized by many countries for not allowing joint custody and is being "softly" pressured. Japan also understands that their laws are antiquated. if you read the link from the australian site that I posted, you could read that sometimes the abduction is made by fathers. you could also read that those laws were from ancient times and designed such that fathers get custody in practice. in those times when those laws were edicted anyway divorces were very rare.

With society changes, now the existing law has turned in favour of mothers. and perhaps is not adapted. the outside world does seem to think it is as many countries have publicly expressed their concerns officially. Among the Japanese themselves it is now finally becoming subject of public debate. It is not clear where the majority stands on this, perhaps already in favour of dual custody, but this society needs consensus not majority to change such things. this is the way things work in Japan.

Ok so now you understand why I'm sensitive about the topic.

---

now about Ai herself. Everyone in Japan knows Ai-chan. Even my wife knew about her before I did; and she's not into TT at all. She just likes entertainment news and Ai was the child prodigy. You like it or not, on Japanese TV prime time, its not education program where you will learn about quantum mechanics or Genji no Monogatari, but it is about the latest exploits from Ichiro or now Shohei Otani about child prodigies and about the latest extra-marital scandal.

Ai-chan's escapades in hotels are not the exclusivity of tabloids. Tabloids are the fastest to deliver the news. but then it is all over the main networks, (NHK excluded) as a main topic. Celebrities like it or not here, if they cheat and get caught red-handed it will be all over the news here. It leads or not to a divorce. but it almost always lead to a press conference where they bow and apologize (謝罪). Its customary here; its not only the CEOs getting caught stealing company funds, or doing some other bad deed, but yes the celebrities too.

You can pity Ai-chan and others who were in the same situation but they know the rules: they get the upside from celebrity; the fame and indecent amounts of money. But should they not follow said rules; here is the infamy; the public outrage; the loss of contracts and sponsors and the shaming.

I liked a lot and was a fan of Ai the player, as much as I am a fan of all JNT. Ai-chan is kind of cute; but not at all my type of girl but nobody should care about it LOL. but I am not a fan of what she's doing: kidnapping in legalese and not allowing her father to see his son in common English. and yes there may have been "moral harassment" and a lot of heated disputes and insults flying. Domestic violence ? very unlikely as even Ai hasn't said anything about that.. and you can't see any wounds or scars on her face...

What is better known is that Ai is a cheater. and that from a young age she is rather "active" sexually with many reported or rumoured partners. There I can bring to you that I happen to have been coached by both Ryusuke Sakamoto and Hidetoshi Oya (I still get coached by him nearly once a week) who have been reported to have her ex boyfriends.
I may or may not have heard private stories about Ai-chan but anyway I will/would keep it all for me.

---

As a conclusion, its not up to me to decide what's good for debating on this forum. after all it belongs to Dan, he is the one to decide and maybe the mods have their words on it. Personally I don't see why we shouldn't. It's still about TT and the players that we cheer(ed) and love(d).

The readership of this forum are English speakers and Chinese or Japanese are underrepresented here. so it could be natural that a lot of (silent) people side with the line of thinking of pingpongpaddy.


However,

I think I've made it clear that I'm a father and husband, I love my kid, and I like kids to have both fathers and mothers. that im not exploiting free speech and not calling anyone out, especially in RED CAPITAL letters.

Anyone whose mind is clear can see pingpongpaddy words that show him for what he really is,

someone who think he is CLEVER and morally above everyone, imposing his values on any subject despite not knowing the ins and outs and not willing to listen to others. a caricature of what is broadly happening in the world.

As for me, I now consider my job done in this thread. I contribute to this forum by giving info, whether it is the latest tournament result, some TT info from Japan, or some links to some interesting YouTube video, or my latest TT tournament. or some context about the latest scandal involving some TT celebrity.

I may have given my opinion but it mattered more for me to give the info so others could make a more informed opinion. at least for those who are ok to receive new input instead of sticking to their priors. but my belief is there are many of them.

PS yes im happy to get attention on this forum. but not necessarily in an egoistical way. yes I do feel good when someone says I've been improving after I post a video, but im equally happy when from time to time somebody says "thank you", very simple 2 words.

This thread proves that ERT is the God of TT content! I know you all must be eager for his next video.

I remember when Chiang married Ai and held a press conference and said the reason he is marrying her is because he felt so "moved" when he thinks of her. If what Takkyu is saying is true (he seems well informed on this matter), then Chiang was a kinda an idiot for marrying someone like her. Entitled Princess Syndrome plus sexually promiscuous is a bad combination to be marrying.

 

[NDH]

Ai-chan is kind of cute; but not at all my type of girl

The thing is, there have been numerous times (not just in this thread) where the cultural "acceptances" have clearly been missed.

This comment above, how is that relevant to *anything*?

Does it add value to the forum? Or does it come across creepy?

In Japan (perhaps Asia as a whole), it might be completely fine - I know there has been a lot of discussion on Japanese attitude to woman recently, and it's not something I want to get into here.

But if you want your points to be taken seriously on a (predominantly) English speaking forum, it would be worth while taking a look to see how certain comments can come across.

and yes there may have been "moral harassment" and a lot of heated disputes and insults flying. Domestic violence ? very unlikely as even Ai hasn't said anything about that.. and you can't see any wounds or scars on her face...

Again, what relevance does this have?

Do you want me to link to countless cases of domestic abuse where you wont see any scars or wounds?

What is better known is that Ai is a cheater. and that from a young age she is rather "active" sexually with many reported or rumoured partners.

Lastly - Relevance?

If you don't see how it comes across, perhaps the cultural differences are just too vast, and I don't want to dwell on it.


This has nothing to do with moral superiority, it has everything to do with this being a *table tennis* forum, and not a place where a small group of adult males feel it's necessary to discuss the appearance, sex lives or custody situation of anyone else (male or female).

In a perfect world, threads like this would be behind some sort of "membership" curtain - I know it's been discussed before, so the regulars can indeed have these conversations without tarnishing the entire forum with it.

It's not about censoring discussion, it's simply about keeping it relevant to why people log in to this forum (note, whilst it might be hot news on other forums, the stats would indicate that it's only of interest to a small number of people here, and given the actual topic of discussion, perhaps it would be wise if people stood back and reflected on it, rather than doubling down and getting angry with anyone who disagrees).

 

[pingpongpaddy]

@Takkyu_wa_inochi
The forum members will have to judge these things for themselves. I did not attribute "clever" to any one in particular as I thought it is the posts themselves that reveal this, mine as well. I don't post on many subjects these days (359 in the stats total).
I too have a back story (I am sure many of us have)relating to the effect of gossip on people close to me, so Felt some duty to stand up for the kids and parents in this situation.

1. I deliberately did not name anybody. I feel that our posts, all of us, show who we are, and that is true of all our posts as long as we have been posting both now and in the future.
2. I already mentioned that I regret the unpleasantness of being involved and indeed I do, its been an unpleasant business.
3. however I don't find it regrettable that those who have criticised Ai so much have been criticised themselves

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

The thing is, there have been numerous times (not just in this thread) where the cultural "acceptances" have clearly been missed.

This comment above, how is that relevant to *anything*?

Does it add value to the forum? Or does it come across creepy?

In Japan (perhaps Asia as a whole), it might be completely fine - I know there has been a lot of discussion on Japanese attitude to woman recently, and it's not something I want to get into here.

But if you want your points to be taken seriously on a (predominantly) English speaking forum, it would be worth while taking a look to see how certain comments can come across.



Again, what relevance does this have?

Do you want me to link to countless cases of domestic abuse where you wont see any scars or wounds?




Lastly - Relevance?

If you don't see how it comes across, perhaps the cultural differences are just too vast, and I don't want to dwell on it.


This has nothing to do with moral superiority, it has everything to do with this being a *table tennis* forum, and not a place where a small group of adult males feel it's necessary to discuss the appearance, sex lives or custody situation of anyone else (male or female).

In a perfect world, threads like this would be behind some sort of "membership" curtain - I know it's been discussed before, so the regulars can indeed have these conversations without tarnishing the entire forum with it.

It's not about censoring discussion, it's simply about keeping it relevant to why people log in to this forum (note, whilst it might be hot news on other forums, the stats would indicate that it's only of interest to a small number of people here, and given the actual topic of discussion, perhaps it would be wise if people stood back and reflected on it, rather than doubling down and getting angry with anyone who disagrees).

ok just like Arnold once famously said I lied. It wasn’t exactly my last post.

Only my last post about Ai-chan

So I will reply only to the last part of your answer of your reply.

I participate on a French TT forum. Yes there is a topic about gossip although it’s not active. But there’s plenty of topics which have nothing to do about TT. Only citing those on the front page I do see one about bikes, one about pins (!!!) one about chess, one about tennis, one about environment and climate change, one about music and one about jokes and memes.

So YOU think it’s not relevant to this website. Maybe the majority does as well. But perhaps Dan may think the contrary because well it could bring more discussion and views and it can’t be all bad right ?

Whatever the case , my view is the answer is far from obvious as you seem to think and I don’t think the fact that the language is English or French or Chinese has a lot with the answer.

Unless the cultural differences are too big between the French and English. But it could be the case because after all it is just disgusting to eat porridge for breakfast and rice pudding is an insult to the human palate.

I’d like also to remind you that England biggest exports are its royal family gossips

 

[NextLevel]

The thing is, there have been numerous times (not just in this thread) where the cultural "acceptances" have clearly been missed.

This comment above, how is that relevant to *anything*?

Does it add value to the forum? Or does it come across creepy?

In Japan (perhaps Asia as a whole), it might be completely fine - I know there has been a lot of discussion on Japanese attitude to woman recently, and it's not something I want to get into here.

But if you want your points to be taken seriously on a (predominantly) English speaking forum, it would be worth while taking a look to see how certain comments can come across.



Again, what relevance does this have?

Do you want me to link to countless cases of domestic abuse where you wont see any scars or wounds?




Lastly - Relevance?

If you don't see how it comes across, perhaps the cultural differences are just too vast, and I don't want to dwell on it.


This has nothing to do with moral superiority, it has everything to do with this being a *table tennis* forum, and not a place where a small group of adult males feel it's necessary to discuss the appearance, sex lives or custody situation of anyone else (male or female).

In a perfect world, threads like this would be behind some sort of "membership" curtain - I know it's been discussed before, so the regulars can indeed have these conversations without tarnishing the entire forum with it.

It's not about censoring discussion, it's simply about keeping it relevant to why people log in to this forum (note, whilst it might be hot news on other forums, the stats would indicate that it's only of interest to a small number of people here, and given the actual topic of discussion, perhaps it would be wise if people stood back and reflected on it, rather than doubling down and getting angry with anyone who disagrees).

NDH,

At the next party, no beer or shots for you! Whether you drink or not!

SMH...

Anyways, Dan will decide what direction he wants the forum to go in. But honestly, in my not-so-humble-opinion, it is things like some of the attitudes on this thread that prevent TT from ever becoming a major sport. I struggle to think of any other sport that would find in-depth discussion of issues related to what its celebrities do to be an issue, and maybe I am missing something by noticing that many of the people opposed to discussing this issue are British. In any case, ownership can decide whether such topics are worth discussing. Again I am grateful for the thread, I think I learned a lot from it, and I got to understand and interact with forum members!

 

[NDH]

I participate on a French TT forum. Yes there is a topic about gossip although it’s not active. But there’s plenty of topics which have nothing to do about TT. Only citing those on the front page I do see one about bikes, one about pins (!!!) one about chess, one about tennis, one about environment and climate change, one about music and one about jokes and memes.

I completely get your point - Perhaps they also struggle for new, regular members?

Perhaps there is a big cultural difference about what is OK to discuss on an open forum and what isn't OK.

Some of what has been said would just be considered inappropriate in every way imaginable on a UK based forum (worth pointing out that whilst forums may be UK based, French based or whatever, if the users are culturally from Asia, America or wherever, the same debates would continue).

So YOU think it’s not relevant to this website. Maybe the majority does as well. But perhaps Dan may think the contrary because well it could bring more discussion and views and it can’t be all bad right ?

Whatever the case , my view is the answer is far from obvious as you seem to think and I don’t think the fact that the language is English or French or Chinese has a lot with the answer.

To clarify, it's not the language but the culture.

I won't give specific examples, but there are some pretty massive cultural differences between Japan and the UK when it comes to views on women for example.

I also want to clarify that I do not think anyone here is bad, wrong or intentionally evil (or anything else!) - Cultural differences can be wonderful in the vast majority of ways, and I enjoy learning about them.

Unless the cultural differences are too big between the French and English. But it could be the case because after all it is just disgusting to eat porridge for breakfast and rice pudding is an insult to the human palate.

Lol's, although I wonder how many French are on that forum, and how many are from Asia.

Anyway, to save everyone a massive headache, I'll follow your footsteps and bow out of this discussion considering I never intended to post more than once in the first place.

I will end by repeating my request for some sort of "level" access, where regulars (of which there are very few), could discuss more than just TT in an "out of the public eye" environment.

I'm now curious what @Takkyu_wa_inochi has for breakfast, and I want to know what @NextLevel does at parties.......

 

[TensorBackhand]

I understand NDH's perspective as well. 99% of my posts are about TT equipment or pro players. When I posted this video, I just did it casually thinking it might draw a couple interested comments or laughs. Didn't really expect the thread to explode like it has.

But I get Takkyu's perspective as well. The TT community is very small, very specialized. There is a strong sense of community or comradery when you meet another TT player because it is so rare. It's not soccer or basketball. It's very normal to feel a sense of ownership (kinda like how Star Wars fans feel so passionate or defensive about the franchise that they don't own). As TT fans, especially in Asia, TT fans watched Fukuhara Ai grow up and compete for decades now. It's naive to think they won't feel a sense of betrayal with the way these events have unfolded. Of course, realistically she is her own human and she can do whatever she wants. Fair or not, she is "owned" by the public the same way the royal family is "owned" by the public and are not truly free. Why is every move of the British Royal family scrutinized?

 

[ttmonster]

I considered not saying this , but since NDH has initiated the cultural angle let me share something personal . You can judge me any which way you like, a snob, a woke or any other colorful word that comes to mind , and please don't take this personally.

Keep in mind over the years I have made many friends on this forum, some of who I have personaly benefitted from . I still have the blade that NextLevel gave away in his Christmas giveaways, I have met Der_Echte and done quite a few missions with him, we have drank beer and chatted till the wee hours of the morning before Der_Echte crashed on my living room couch ..... some of us( you know who you are) keep in touch via social media and the discussions go beyond table tennis . And one can very well argue, TTD has been my singular resource to improve my game except when I was training with accomplished coaches .

Enough with the background on how much I feel grateful for this forum and the friends I have made here ...

In my cultural and family background its considered singularly distasteful for men or women to discuss somebody's private affairs and passing judgement on them , its worse if its a group of mostly middle aged men talking about a young woman . You can call it bias, special treatment or sensitiveness ... but thats what is for me.

Hence, I was trying very hard to either put a stop to the shaming , judgement passing and name calling that was coming out as a result of this thread with as rational and logical arguments as possible, but I singularly failed in changing or elevating the conversation. I accept my failure.

It did seriously made me wonder though that may be most of the loud voices here are factually right in whatever guesses they are making about peoples characters, be it Fukuhara, Chiang, Yoshimara or Mizutani but to me personally its totally distateful and offensive .

And it has also made me think whether I even want to discuss table tennis ( a hobby that is very close to my heart ) with people with whom I don't find much else in common especially in terms of taste .

After all its not just being logical or rational that is the only qualification for an intelligent discussion , you should also consider what is the overall message and learning that is emerging from that discussion... the bigger picture ... and we are known by the people we associate with intellectually or otherwise.


Obviously , I am not going to respond to comments on this post much I like I stopped responding to zeio just wanted to get it out there for you to consider / condemn as you like.

 

[turbozed]

I've said enough on this topic with regards to what I think about Fukuhara's behavior here when it comes to custody law. When deciding on the custody and welfare of a child, the Court does consider a parent's pattern of behavior. Instances of selfishness, impulsiveness, and inability to follow the law become matters of public record because the need for privacy goes out the window when a court needs to step in for the well-being for a child.

We are not a court of law, and it's fine if people don't want to get involved in the discussion out of lack of interest or a principled stance against getting into the private lives of others. That's all fine. But a mother breaking the law and abducting a child in defiance of court orders is by definition a public matter.

In the same way, a famous TT coach's inappropriate behavior to students has a private matter component, but certainly is a public matter as well, since we should know when figures in our field of interest are breaking the law and/or a danger to the community. Nobody is inquiring about the lurid details of that situation and there are several reasons for that. Nobody wants to know (or should want to know at least) as it involves a minor.

Fukuhara is a grown adult, with power and influence, and has enjoyed the benefits of her public life and persona. She is also in a position of power as the General Manager of WTT Japan. Aside from this, she's a role model and beloved figure in the sport to many, a status that it can be argued that she leaned into for her benefit. For better of for worse, some aspects of her personal life are going to be relevant. Whether she deserves to be held as a role model, and whether she is suited to have a leadership position in the sport are all valid topics of discussion.

Especially in light of scandals involving prominent players and coaches recently, there are further discussions to be had about celebrity status and entitlement. About using celebrity status to skirt the law and find refuge in friendly fanbases.

These are all interesting topics, where our sport, the law, culture and (right or wrong) private lives intersect. To say that there's no value to discussing this, and that those who give it any thought are some sort of degenerates to me reeks of either prudish moralism or the idolization of a form of celebrity and holding them to lower standards. People who are criticizing discussion on this topic act like we are discussing what sort of position Fukuhara prefers when in coitus with Person X when we are actually discussing court orders and legal liability regarding the abduction of a child. This sort of speech policing is bizarre and absurd.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I considered not saying this , but since NDH has initiated the cultural angle let me share something personal . You can judge me any which way you like, a snob, a woke or any other colorful word that comes to mind , and please don't take this personally.

Keep in mind over the years I have made many friends on this forum, some of who I have personaly benefitted from . I still have the blade that NextLevel gave away in his Christmas giveaways, I have met Der_Echte and done quite a few missions with him, we have drank beer and chatted till the wee hours of the morning before Der_Echte crashed on my living room couch ..... some of us( you know who you are) keep in touch via social media and the discussions go beyond table tennis . And one can very well argue, TTD has been my singular resource to improve my game except when I was training with accomplished coaches .

Enough with the background on how much I feel grateful for this forum and the friends I have made here ...

In my cultural and family background its considered singularly distasteful for men or women to discuss somebody's private affairs and passing judgement on them , its worse if its a group of mostly middle aged men talking about a young woman . You can call it bias, special treatment or sensitiveness ... but thats what is for me.

Hence, I was trying very hard to either put a stop to the shaming , judgement passing and name calling that was coming out as a result of this thread with as rational and logical arguments as possible, but I singularly failed in changing or elevating the conversation. I accept my failure.

It did seriously made me wonder though that may be most of the loud voices here are factually right in whatever guesses they are making about peoples characters, be it Fukuhara, Chiang, Yoshimara or Mizutani but to me personally its totally distateful and offensive .

And it has also made me think whether I even want to discuss table tennis ( a hobby that is very close to my heart ) with people with whom I don't find much else in common especially in terms of taste .

After all its not just being logical or rational that is the only qualification for an intelligent discussion , you should also consider what is the overall message and learning that is emerging from that discussion... the bigger picture ... and we are known by the people we associate with intellectually or otherwise.


Obviously , I am not going to respond to comments on this post much I like I stopped responding to zeio just wanted to get it out there for you to consider / condemn as you like.

Distasteful? Maybe. But I think a lot of people would think a father not being able to see his son because of the singular actions of the mother is far worse than distasteful.

Anyway, this post makes no sense to me. It's like you have never turned on the news. Biden family, Trump family, we should just cancel all of CNN and NBC and Fox because they are not up to your standard. Not sure what world you live in. Ai is on the news precisely because she broke the law of her own accord.

Some old guy named Clinton was before my time. But we're not allowed to discuss her personal affairs because you said so. The news is not allowed to report on his personal and private affairs.

 

[TensorBackhand]

ok just like Arnold once famously said I lied. It wasn’t exactly my last post.

Only my last post about Ai-chan

So I will reply only to the last part of your answer of your reply.

I participate on a French TT forum. Yes there is a topic about gossip although it’s not active. But there’s plenty of topics which have nothing to do about TT. Only citing those on the front page I do see one about bikes, one about pins (!!!) one about chess, one about tennis, one about environment and climate change, one about music and one about jokes and memes.

So YOU think it’s not relevant to this website. Maybe the majority does as well. But perhaps Dan may think the contrary because well it could bring more discussion and views and it can’t be all bad right ?

Whatever the case , my view is the answer is far from obvious as you seem to think and I don’t think the fact that the language is English or French or Chinese has a lot with the answer.

Unless the cultural differences are too big between the French and English. But it could be the case because after all it is just disgusting to eat porridge for breakfast and rice pudding is an insult to the human palate.

I’d like also to remind you that England biggest exports are its royal family gossips

BTW Takkyu which city or province do you play in?

I tried to play table tennis a few times in Japan, but I never really found a good place to play. I couldn't find any real clubs in my area, whereas I found badminton circles every night of the week. It seemed like TT was not popular among adults in Japan, but only for children.

The only TT circle I found was about 15 older men and women who were not very good at all. It got boring in a few days and I never really picked up TT in Japan at all.