Is Samsonov finished ?

[tropical]

3. Do fans like their legends to lose ?
No. If somebody does then he might be mentally retarded
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So anybody who does not agree to your world view is "mentally retarded" according to you.

Not sure about your english competence or your understanding of what is right and wrong, but this is wrong on many levels and is enough to get you banned from the forum.

Hi. I'm Yo$. I am mentally retarded. I still love to see Samsonov compete.

It is very clear that the person stated if fans like their legends to lose then they are retarded.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Somehow a couple people interpreted such sentence differently.

 

[Baal]

In the US for quite a long time now the use of the term "retarded" is considered a slur (akin to racial slurs) and should now be avoided. That is what I think the complaint was about, not a criticism of the underlying idea that it is strange to want your favorite player to lose. People who are not native English speakers and who don't live in North America may not know this so I cut slack.

By the way, I don't want Samsonov to lose, but I don't want him to retire either, even though I know now that he will not win world championships at this point. It is because I love watching him play.

 

[yoass]

It is very clear that the person stated if fans like their legends to lose then they are retarded.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Somehow a couple people interpreted such sentence differently.

I like to see him play. And to play is to run the risk of winning — or losing. (Win, loose, that doesn't matter at all. To play is the prize.)

So yes, I'd rather see him play (and loose, potentially) than not see him play anymore at all. But that's retarded li'll ol' me jabberin' away.

 

[NextLevel]

In the US for quite a long time now the use of the term "retarded" is considered a slur (akin to racial slurs) and should now be avoided. That is what I think the complaint was about, not a criticism of the underlying idea that it is strange to want your favorite player to lose. People who are not native English speakers and who don't live in North America may not know this so I cut slack.

By the way, I don't want Samsonov to lose, but I don't want him to retire either, even though I know now that he will not win world championships at this point. It is because I love watching him play.

It wasn't about that at all as most/many of us were not born in North America or most/many of us have international exposure.

Sophisticated writers know how to insult people who disagree with them without being direct. Of course, if Samsonov isn't playing as well, he is going to lose more often than he used to. And people who like to see him play will of course want to see him win but will have to live with him losing. Of course no one wants to see him lose but you have to accept the possibility and his losses might even come in good contests with upcoming players. And if this happens more and more often but you enjoy watching him, then you are retarded.

The Lee Sang Su match was a great match. I wish Samsonov had played better. I enjoyed watching Samsonov lose, but not because he lost - I enjoyed watching the match. Hence, I am retarded.

 

[drunix80]

Folks, I am the guy who posted the original 'retarded' post. Honestly, I am posting in fear of getting banned from TTD because moderator threatened me regarding the same. I love all the TTD members and TTD itself because all of us are TT fans and spreading the same message worldwide. I was posting just my opinions just like everone else did (without the intent to insult anyone) . I apologize again if I did Having said that I have a simple analogy about it -
If Marvel were to make a movie of an old iron man in which iron man got bashed most of the times, I am sure some section of movie goers will avoid the movie because iron man is the hero.

It is absolutely possible some of the fans will just go to see just iron man himself irrspective of the end result.

But I want my hero to fight till death rather than give up meekly. Fall once then evolve and fight again and never surrender. If someone disagrees, I have no problem with that.

We all have opinions and this was just my opinion. I request moderator not to single out only one guy for posting his opinions. Everyone is doing the same here. This is very healthy for TT itself because out of the discussion we can have a real solution for old players to evolve and compete with the best. Who knows !!!

 

[drunix80]

And since we all heard each other's opinion, it might be interesting if somebody sheds light on how old guys like Samsonov can improve to tackle the new guys. Diet , Yoga etc ?? Many of the old guys in the club I play often mention Samsonov as their motivation to keep going but even they are in panic mode now.

Recent quote from Samsonov why he is continuing to play - .“I always wanted to win the World Championships title and an Olympics medal, but that has eluded me. That is why I am still playing”

www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/news/sport/tai-chi-master-finally-makes-it-to-india/364425.html

Firstly is it a realistic goal ?? I am sure he needs a new tweaks to his game, mind and health to do that. What can those be ??

 

[Richie]

Folks, I am the guy who posted the original 'retarded' post. Honestly, I am posting in fear of getting banned from TTD because moderator threatened me regarding the same. I love all the TTD members and TTD itself because all of us are TT fans and spreading the same message worldwide. I was posting just my opinions just like everone else did (without the intent to insult anyone) . I apologize again if I did Having said that I have a simple analogy about it -
If Marvel were to make a movie of an old iron man in which iron man got bashed most of the times, I am sure some section of movie goers will avoid the movie because iron man is the hero.

It is absolutely possible some of the fans will just go to see just iron man himself irrspective of the end result.

But I want my hero to fight till death rather than give up meekly. Fall once then evolve and fight again and never surrender. If someone disagrees, I have no problem with that.

We all have opinions and this was just my opinion. I request moderator not to single out only one guy for posting his opinions. Everyone is doing the same here. This is very healthy for TT itself because out of the discussion we can have a real solution for old players to evolve and compete with the best. Who knows !!!

The thing is, I don't think anyone disagrees with you. It's completely obvious that no one wants to see their hero or favourite player lose.
And what you're saying here seems to be direct contradiction to what you've said previously. You're now saying that you "want him to fight to death rather than give up meekly". Well if he's going to continue playing - which is what I assume is what you mean by saying fight to death, then he's probably going to lose more than he used to. Hopefully he'll keep doing well though. He has been doing pretty well, which is why it's odd that people are going "ah he should just stop now as he's doing slightly worse occasionally".

People are allowed to have opinions and people are also allowed to question your opinion for clarity, understanding or perhaps for you to rethink your opinion, which you've done, so major props for that.

I'm a bit skeptical to your iron man analogy. This isn't fiction, Samsonov is a great player, he used to be better in his prime, he is now getting older and will have more down periods. That's just how it is. So, if you're a true fan of him.. what do you think Samsonov would want from a good fan?
1. A fan that supports his decision to keep playing despite losing slightly more than usual.
2. A fan that gets upset that his hero is no longer in his prime, gets emotional that he's losing more, even though his hero is still enjoying himself.

You came across as 2. even though I think you're in actual fact more like 1. I'd be happy to see my hero fighting on, no matter what. If he continuously lost then I would perhaps ask myself why they would continue and maybe eventually stop watching them. That's pretty understandable.

I think it was all just a bit of a misunderstanding which needed clarifying, which you did so that's great.

 

[tropical]

In all fairness, I don't think you are trying to insult anyone. This is an international forum and we have different types of people. Some people in the forum are very sensitive and some words might trigger their reaction. Just relax, hang around, and have fun and that is all we want, right?

 

[Baal]

In all fairness, I don't think you are trying to insult anyone. This is an international forum and we have different types of people. Some people in the forum are very sensitive and some words might trigger their reaction. Just relax, hang around, and have fun and that is all we want, right?

I agree for the most part. I also think that pretty much everyone here is a Samsonov fan, and while I don't think he should retire until he wants to, I didn't feel insulted at all.

Still, I hope that some people might have benefited by my pointing out that the use of the term "retarded" is greatly discouraged in North America as a slur. It is akin to an ethnic slur. The reason is that it was once used to stigmatize disabled people. I suspect that when Carl told the poster to back off, the use of that term is at least part of the reason. He can speak for himself on this, of course.

 

[tropical]

I also love watching Samsonov. It is sad that he is not a threat to the top Chinese players anymore (but who is?). That is probably the intention of the OP. Nevertheless, when we discuss more and more on this topic we can clearly see Samsonov is not finished yet, based on subjective to objective opinions/facts.

 

[countrybread]

I can't say I was ever in love with Samsonov's game but I'm starting to watch him more closely now, and other older players, because I'm also old. haha! Tom Lodziak has a great article, "How to compete with younger players-lessons from Vladimir Samsonov." Watching great, older players has become an unexpected blessing because it gives me ideas about what my development priorities should be. If Samsonov retired I would only have left-handed penhold, pips out players to study, and that wouldn't work for me.

 

[drunix80]

I also love watching Samsonov. It is sad that he is not a threat to the top Chinese players anymore (but who is?). That is probably the intention of the OP. Nevertheless, when we discuss more and more on this topic we can clearly see Samsonov is not finished yet, based on subjective to objective opinions/facts.

I advocated retirement because quite frankly I am a disgruntled fan who really can't stand LSS calling Vladi 'so-so' and 'very slow' post the WTTC match. IMO age is not a big factor in deciding retirement. One can always be the trailblazer for his age like Federer. You can lose more frequently but you can also take rest from over participating or change some other strategy.
I believe he can be still be a threat to CNT if he experiments new things in his game. Not a tech expert of TT but I see him playing the same way for sometime. How about trying out a new serve ? Or may be FZD style banana flicks or perhaps improving your 3rd ball attack ? Yes you may injure yourself more in the process but you may also end up winning more.

 

[ttmonster]

Not sure why you have to rake this up ..

Now , I don't have a family member who suffers from issues related to cognitive abilities but I do know families and friends who do and I empathize with the situation they are going through. For example, do you have a friend who is a 50 year old single mother who is working two highly stressful jobs thousands of miles away from home just to support her 28 year old girl who is severely limited in her abilities because of Down's syndrome ?

Even though "dumb" , "stupid" , "idiots" are terms that are being frequently used in common language and probably ignored for that same reason , "mentally retarded" is a very specific term which clearly states that the person using it is apparently completely aware of what he is implying and not using it as an off the cuff verbal reaction . So when we are trying to sensitize the person who is using this, its not being "sensitive", its being open enough to share the knowledge with somebody who is not aware of a particular common courtesy ...

If you had the openness to understand both sides of an argument you would have understood what I told him , I was not threatening him , I told him clearly that this is not the correct thing to say and might be offensive to others, and that he is crossing the lines in this forum , you can look at the forum FAQs to understand what I referring to ...

This is not the first time, but the problem in the outlook you have expressed time and again here is a biased stand to every argument, again there is a difference between a view point and a biased stand , not entirely sure if you understand that if you did then you would not be doing what you are doing , and then you think any and everybody who is expressing a view point that is in contradiction to yours is either wrong or misinformed or sensitive ...

It is very clear that the person stated if fans like their legends to lose then they are retarded.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Somehow a couple people interpreted such sentence differently.

 

[tropical]

I didn't know you have such negative feeling toward some triggering words like N, R, W, etc... I am from the Northern California, too, and I understand the term clearly. Some of these words are degrading and people who use them know exactly what they mean. But in this case the person is from another country and he didn't mean what you understand. Don't you think it is a bit rough to use the rules against him? I look at the context more than at a particular word. Call me biased as you like but who is not biased in this forum?

 

[ttmonster]

How do you surely know this person is from another country , and how do you exactly know what he meant ?

There is a history of multiple examples of trolls in this forum who have created different ids with different flags and even jumped over from other forums , and offended and abused people with slurs personal and racial in this forum. That is why the the rules are clear and uniform for every forum user. I am not a moderator , I am simply somebody who uses the forum on a regular basis and have been on the receiving end of some of those abuses in the past before the user has been banned.

Context is when you have clear evidence of the circumstances , the reason I called you biased is because of the same reason why you think this is a "valid context" and that implied context should take precedence over rules or simply trying to make somebody aware that they are on the verge of crossing the line because of their excitement, whichever may be the case

I didn't know you have such negative feeling toward some triggering words like N, R, W, etc... I am from the Northern California, too, and I understand the term clearly. Some of these words are degrading and people who use them know exactly what they mean. But in this case the person is from another country and he didn't mean what you understand. Don't you think it is a bit rough to use the rules against him? I look at the context more than at a particular word. Call me biased as you like but who is not biased in this forum?

 

[NextLevel]

My argument is different and has been made earlier. Drunix80 is a good guy generally and I have no reason to doubt his genuineness and his opinion. What I don't like are conditional insults being thrown around in an atmosphere of disagreement. It's a common strategy used to incite people - if the shoe fits, wear it. If he had said, "Only stupid people like to see their favorite legends lose", I would have felt precisely the same way. I don't think I posted much after the original statement, but I think that the need to say that was driven to some degree by discomfort with the amount of disagreement with his position that he was receiving. That said, if I said anything to offend drunix80, I apologize. He is a good poster with a genuinely valuable POV.

 

[ttmonster]

I agree with you too NL I don't have any reason to believe anything otherwise about drunix80, I was trying to explain that tropicals point of view is flawed , the rules are uniform and needs to be applied uniformly

My argument is different and has been made earlier. Drunix80 is a good guy generally and I have no reason to doubt his genuineness and his opinion. What I don't like are conditional insults being thrown around in an atmosphere of disagreement. It's a common strategy used to incite people - if the shoe fits, wear it. If he had said, "Only stupid people like to see their favorite legends lose", I would have felt precisely the same way. I don't think I posted much after the original statement, but I think that the need to say that was driven to some degree by discomfort with the amount of disagreement with his position that he was receiving. That said, if I said anything to offend drunix80, I apologize. He is a good poster with a genuinely valuable POV.

 

[tropical]

How do you surely know this person is from another country , and how do you exactly know what he meant ?

There is a history of multiple examples of trolls in this forum who have created different ids with different flags and even jumped over from other forums , and offended and abused people with slurs personal and racial in this forum. That is why the the rules are clear and uniform for every forum user. I am not a moderator , I am simply somebody who uses the forum on a regular basis and have been on the receiving end of some of those abuses in the past before the user has been banned.

Context is when you have clear evidence of the circumstances , the reason I called you biased is because of the same reason why you think this is a "valid context" and that implied context should take precedence over rules or simply trying to make somebody aware that they are on the verge of crossing the line because of their excitement, whichever may be the case

I will try one last time to explain as you and I come from 2 different cultures and were raised in different environments.

The reason I think he is from a different country is based on his flag, writing, choice of words, and grammar usage. It is clear to me but may not be clear to you. But I could be wrong as English is also my 2nd language.

And the reason I say he didn't mean it or intentionally use the R word because he meant anyone including himself would be R if he/she liked his/her idol to lose.

Regardless, he did apologize to the forum for using the word. That should be good enough.

 

[ttmonster]

I did not bring up the topic since he apologized ... I responded to your post once you brought it back up ..

I will try one last time to explain as you and I come from 2 different cultures and were raised in different environments.

The reason I think he is from a different country is based on his flag, writing, choice of words, and grammar usage. It is clear to me but may not be clear to you. But I could be wrong as English is also my 2nd language.

And the reason I say he didn't mean it or intentionally use the R word because he meant anyone including himself would be R if he/she liked his/her idol to lose.

Regardless, he did apologize to the forum for using the word. That should be good enough.

 

[countrybread]

(sigh) I tried to change the subject and get off this dreary topic. Ah well....(smh)