Is WCQ the best counter-looper in the world?

[TensorBackhand]

In the latest WTT Finals 2024, WCQ completely dominated the match with his counter-looping. I don't remember ever seeing a player counter-loop THIS frequently and THIS consistently.

Is WCQ the best counterlooper in the world? Does he do this technique better than FZD and LSD?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

no, wcq is surely not, there are so many that is probably better than him, especially in the 40mm eras

however, there is no doubt that Harimoto is the best 1800 player on the planet since USATT rating came into effect

 

[TensorBackhand]

Who is better counter looper today than WCQ?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

s

Who is better counter looper today than WCQ?

so you are now limiting your "ever" to only "today?
that is a quick change of period

 

[TensorBackhand]

s

so you are now limiting your "ever" to only "today?
that is a quick change of period

I didn't say ever in history. I asked is he the best in the world?

If yes, then just say yes. If no, then I'm interested to hear who is better than him in the world.

But sure, I don't mind learning history either. Who is better counter looper in history?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I didn't say ever in history. I asked is he the best in the world?

If yes, then just say yes. If no, then I'm interested to hear who is better than him in the world.

But sure, I don't mind learning history either. Who is better counter looper in history?

i seem to found out in these 2 posts that your "ever" is very short, so you are probably new to the sport.
counter topspin has been going on for decades.
WCQ surely isn't even in the top 5 or top 10.
Even players like Boll is way better than him imo or even a red hot RSM with 1 side, that will counter top spin the ball every where.

 

[Attitude]

i seem to found out in these 2 posts that your "ever" is very short, so you are probably new to the sport.
counter topspin has been going on for decades.
WCQ surely isn't even in the top 5 or top 10.
Even players like Boll is way better than him imo or even a red hot RSM with 1 side, that will counter top spin the ball every where.

Oof, even as a german i highly disagree with the Boll statement. Buuuut as long as we dont define this "best counterloop" thing, this debate is useless at best.

In my definition of a good counterlooper there come people in mind like (surprise) Ma Long (yes even now i would rate him higher then almost everyone, though he is slower now) Ma Lin, FZD... And most certainly other names that i dont have in my hear right now.

Wcq has the advantage of youth, lefthand and era itself and i would definitly rate him pretty high if it comes to the best loopers right now.
All time though, probably not that high.

But if you really want to discus this any further, define time and abilities. Otherwise this is just a waste of time.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Oof, even as a german i highly disagree with the Boll statement. Buuuut as long as we dont define this "best counterloop" thing, this debate is useless at best.

In my definition of a good counterlooper there come people in mind like (surprise) Ma Long (yes even now i would rate him higher then almost everyone, though he is slower now) Ma Lin, FZD... And most certainly other names that i dont have in my hear right now.

Wcq has the advantage of youth, lefthand and era itself and i would definitly rate him pretty high if it comes to the best loopers right now.
All time though, probably not that high.

But if you really want to discus this any further, define time and abilities. Otherwise this is just a waste of time.

yep,

the definition is just so vast
i am reading it as someone who can do top spin to top spin rallies, since every ball is a counter top spin / loop
now remember Boll when he was WR1 and top 3 doing a lot of this?
beautiful isn't it?

everyone who has a gold medal really, is better than WCQ
WCQ does lead the race with best player with illegal serve though

 

[TensorBackhand]

Oof, even as a german i highly disagree with the Boll statement. Buuuut as long as we dont define this "best counterloop" thing, this debate is useless at best.

In my definition of a good counterlooper there come people in mind like (surprise) Ma Long (yes even now i would rate him higher then almost everyone, though he is slower now) Ma Lin, FZD... And most certainly other names that i dont have in my hear right now.

Wcq has the advantage of youth, lefthand and era itself and i would definitly rate him pretty high if it comes to the best loopers right now.
All time though, probably not that high.

But if you really want to discus this any further, define time and abilities. Otherwise this is just a waste of time.

Well i posted the match video as reference. But what I saw in WCQ's match were the following:

1) counter looping off of Harimoto's opening loop. I think its easy to counterloop in topspin-topspin rally, but much harder to do off of the 1st opening loop

2) counter-loop with both FH and bh

3) consistency. He seemed to hit 80% of his counters

4) power. His counters were very authoritative and generally won the point outright or with just 1 followup shot

5) frequency. Wcq was using the counter almost every time and rarely blocked

Which players in the world today do these 5 points better than WCQ?

I've seen LSD counter really well with his bh, but he doesn't seem as smooth as WCQ on the fh side. FZD seems powerful, but not as consistent.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

don't take a match with a half asleep 1800 blocker to define the worlds best

 

[mcfly]

no, wcq is surely not, there are so many that is probably better than him, especially in the 40mm eras

however, there is no doubt that Harimoto is the best 1800 player on the planet since USATT rating came into effect

just curious, what is the equivalent of rating in Japan for USATT 1800?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

just curious, what is the equivalent of rating in Japan for USATT 1800?

no 1 player I guess

 

[latej]

How about 2200??? ;-)

 

[NetProphet]

No

 

[latej]

Anyway, WCQ has the best FH, ever, you hear me, EVER, in the world.... ;-)

But we have side-stepped, let's answer OP's question ;-) - is he the best counter-looper?

EDIT: @Sims 's answer doesn't count, he used time-travel, that's ITTF prohibited...

 

[mcfly]

no 1 player I guess

that is crazy... all my friends are no1 if they are playing in Japan! im gonna tell them!

 

[zeio]

Not if we go by the feedback of Togami and Tanaka.

 

[passifid]

No. He has pretty decent shots but isn't a big consistent counter looper, even In this game it's just one counter at a time mostly then a relatively passive shot.

What is is great at is those big single shots and use of down the line.


Currently I would suggest in an open looping rally I would favour: Alexis Lebrun, Felix Lebrun, Lin Shidong, FZD and LJK.

However I personally think he has the best third ball forehand in the world currently

 

[RefereeNumber2]

"In the most recent match I watched, player A looked really good. In fact, he won more points and sets than his opponent, player B, and therefore won the match. Wow! During the match, whenever player B would hit a shot, player A would return it at a high rate. Player A certainly returned shots at a higher rate than player B, because he won the match. In fact, I think player A is the best shot-returner in the world. Sure, players C, D, and E may also be good shot-returners, but to be honest I haven't watched them play in a while so I can't really remember if they're any good at returning shots. Upon further thought, player A is probably the best shot-returner of all time."

Feel free to copy/paste after every major event final.

In all seriousness, WCQ is an amazing player, ranked number 1 in the world. He's also played quite poorly (by the standards of world no. 1) in the very recent past. It would be more interesting to discuss why WCQ seems to match up well against Harimoto, and what tactics he used in the match that allowed him to dominate. More broadly, has WCQ changed anything tactically or technically in his game to break out of his recent slump?

 

[blahness]

Everything is relative. Harimoto doesnt vary his loop or even chiquita spin a lot which is why it is relatively easier to counterloop his openings. If WCQ played against someone who varies their opening loops a lot like Timo Boll, he wouldnt be able to do it that confidently.