ITTF Mixed Team World Cup 2023, Chengdu, 12/4-10

[zeio]

Find me 1 reason to let Hayata off the hook.

Miwa/Togami: x2
Miwa's brother: x3
Miwa/Kihara: x4

 

[fore.n.back]

Even god can't help Kihara with all those lucky balls

 

[zeio]

WCQ/ML - Sone/Togami
Sone finally?!

Sone played decently considering the circumstances.

 

[driversbeat]

What if Hirano played singles????

 

[fore.n.back]

Sone played decently considering the circumstances.

Togami and Harimoto redeemed themselves today. Sone did well, he has never played against this ball quality so it's normal to lose
The women side underperformed, Miwa > Hayata > Kihara

 

[zeio]

Can KOR best JPN's score against CHN tomorrow?

Otherwise, the MVPs for me:
MS: Miwa's brother
WS: A. Diaz
MD: ?
WD: WMY/CM
XD: Miwa/Togami

 

[Janard]

Will we still see the referee who faulted WCQ tomorrow? Or will he be asked to leave

 

[zeio]

Why Hayata, why?
https://youtu.be/y5rIReUQf30?t=148

https://youtu.be/kSzavqIKaE8?t=10

Still chasing MiuMima years later...
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1146728

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1141313
最後までいつも
Until the very end

応援してくださるので
you always support me

その期待に応えられるように
To meet those expectations

頑張りたいと思います
I want to do my best

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1126329

She may be OFFICIALLY the highest-ranked now, but to be recognized as one of the best 2? Not that easy. The standard now is far higher than it was in 2019.

She needs more titles. That's why I listed them in my last post.

 

[zeio]

What if Hirano played singles????

Kato told us before WTTC 2023.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/26th-asian-table-tennis-championship.31859/post-422977

And TV Tokyo even before WTTC 2022.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...tle=wttc-finals-2022-chengdu-9-3010-9#1132127
Miu & Kasumi inakute, daijoubu? 😅

 

[zeio]

This Tieba thread nailed it.

A Tieba user who has been writing articles before significant match-ups has this to say about CHN vs JPN.

最后两场困难挑战！日本率先发难，国乒如何接招？ (The last two matches with difficult challenges! Japan took the first shot, how will the CNT respond?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8778417738

After 5 days of competition, the Mixed Team World Cup Chengdu is coming to an end. But judging from past competitions, the competition becomes more difficult the closer you are to the finish line. This time the CNT will face off the JNT, and Japan's lineup is basically out of the bag. So how will the CNT respond?

The opponent is China, so Japan must let Harimoto Tomokazu take charge of the MS, because Harimoto single-handedly defeated WCQ and narrowly defeated FZD at the 2022 World Team Table Tennis Championships Chengdu. If it weren't for ML who won the 3rd singles match, then the CNT would have been finished that time.

The other is the XD. Although Harimoto Tomokazu/Hayata are the strongest XD pair in Japan, they are also the XD pair we are most familiar with. Even if Harimoto Tomokazu is not responsible for the MS, the possibility of Harimoto Tomokazu/Hayata winning one or two games is also slim. On the contrary, Togami/Harimoto Miwa, who are often fielded by Japan in this competition, are not very familiar to the CNT, and the possibility of an upset is relatively high.

In the WS, since Meng/Sha/Yu are undefeated against Hayata, and most of them were won by a big lead, Japan may not be able to get one or two games with Hayata; on the contrary, Hirano, who defeated SYS 4-3 this year, and was able to fight 5 games with CM, and was 2-1 in the lead before being turned around. The last time she played against WMY was two years ago. Letting Hirano be in charge of the WS, the possibility of upsetting the CNT will be greater.

And once it reaches the fourth match, Japan will inevitably choose WD. Japan's WD is relatively strong, and there are many combinations in this lineup. For example, Harimoto Miwa/Kihara defeated SYS/WMY at the Asian Games; Hayata is a left-handed player, and she can form WD with any other right-handed players. In other words, with the strength of the Japanese women's team, if the match is dragged to the fourth match of WD, it is possible to extend to the fifth match.

From this point of view, the match between China and Japan is bound to be very intense and difficult. Because if WCQ is fielded in the first match of XD, he will have a bigger problem. Not only does he lack a strong ability to actively score and relying on his female partner to initiate, he is prone to making errors, but this is especially true when facing unfamiliar opponents, the previous matches have already proved this.

And if LGY/WMY or WYD are fielded in XD, the problem is that the time for LGY and WMY to break in is too short, and WYD's adaptability is relatively weak. And once the XD is poorly matched up, it will greatly affect the subsequent matches. So what lineup do you think the CNT will field? Feel free to leave your comment.

 

[zeio]

yysy，今晚早田背大锅 (TBH, Hayata bears the biggest blame tonight)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8779547235
尺魅h 其他人都超常发挥情况下早田对王曼昱一局都没撕下来，不然还能再打
对韩国也是被金娜英拿一分，今天金娜英被单晓娜零封，早田这次表现真不太行，不如美和
IP属地:陕西来自Android客户端1楼2023-12-09 22:06
When everyone else performed beyond their limits, Hayata didn't tear off a single game against WMY, otherwise the match could have gone on
Against South Korea, Kim Nayeong also scored one point. Today, Kim Nayeong was shut out by SXN. Hayata's performance really doesn't cut it this time, not as good as Miwa

怒怼黑子的小螃蟹 是的 早天nomiddleuse以为至少可以拿一局
IP属地:陕西来自Android客户端2楼2023-12-09 22:08
Yes, Hayata is no good. Thought she could take at least one game

...

yyy_ya 早田是不是没赢过top3
IP属地:浙江来自iPhone客户端11楼2023-12-09 23:05
Hayata has never beaten the top 3, right?

...

贴吧用户_aPyXG5V 造田也就那样，威胁跟以前的伊藤没得比
IP属地:天津来自iPhone客户端13楼2023-12-09 23:40
That's about it for Hayata. The threat can't be compared with Ito in the past

【日本本土球员】真的太拉了 [Japan's homegrown players] really suck
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8779570806
hasta 今晚上日本能拿五分，全靠张本一家子。
户上今晚上的赔钱不亚于木原美悠
早田希娜不用说，今晚上最大的罪人。一分都没拿这一姐的地位名不副实。
户上不说了内战王，没啥东西 看见瓜队脚都软了。
IP属地:四川来自iPhone客户端1楼2023-12-09 22:19
It's all thanks to Harimoto's family that Japan was able to get five points tonight.
Togami's ineptitude tonight is no less than Kihara Miyuu's
Needless to say, Hayata Hina is the biggest sinner tonight. Failing to take even one game, the alpha female status is not worthy of her reputation at all.
Togami, in short, the civil war king, there is not much. He got the cold feet upon seeing the melon team [TL's note: CNT].

咒術少校 張本真的成都之神 他對小胖2連勝了 世界上也只有他帶領的日本隊能把國乒迫成這樣 什麼韓法德瑞也是被吊打的命 這一戰真的精彩 簡直有如成都世錦2.0
IP属地:中国香港来自iPhone客户端2楼2023-12-09 22:22
Harimoto is the god of Chengdu [TL's note: Harimoto's ancestral home is Sichuan province]. He has won 2 consecutive matches against Xiaopang. In this world, only the Japanese team led by him can force the CNT to this point. KOR/FRA/GER/SWE or whatever are all also-rans. This battle was really exciting. It was like the WTTC 2022 Chengdu 2.0

...

酱油小路lucy 户上今天混双拧拉质量蛮高的，没有他，第一局赢不了
IP属地:四川来自Android客户端6楼2023-12-09 22:51
The quality of Togami's chiquita in XD today was quite high. Without him, they couldn't have won the first match

鲜柠麦草 早田没赢鱼女情理之中，但一分没撕到有点离谱，她一般打强手好赖也能撕一局
木原不赔钱，她双打就是这个风格，搏杀，收益率高擦网多失误率也高，特殊胶皮在双打里面都这样，伊藤也是
IP属地:北京来自Android客户端7楼2023-12-09 23:05
It's within expectation that Hayata didn't win against Fish Girl, but it's a bit outrageous that she didn't tear off a single game. She could usually tear off a game even if up against strong opponents
Kihara isn't inept, that's her style in doubles, going all-out, high reward rate, lots of nets, and high error rate. The special rubber is just like this in doubles, and it's the same for Ito

啊啊啊啊啊啊老师 户上今天不错的，反手和发球打的莎头很不舒服，日本今晚最赔早田
IP属地:浙江来自Android客户端8楼2023-12-09 23:21
Togami did well today. His BH and serve made Shatou [ShaHead] very uncomfortable. Hayata is the most inept for Japan tonight

尤恩格斯-库格 女单还不如上平野
IP属地:天津来自Android客户端10楼2023-12-09 23:39
Would've been better fielding Hirano for WS instead

烤肉真好吃呢 女单还不如上美和，美和真的有点子东西
IP属地:四川来自Android客户端11楼2023-12-10 00:12
Would've been better to field Miwa for WS. Miwa really has something to offer

爱打球的皓 沪上打的可以的
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端13楼2023-12-10 00:44
Togami played decently

麻辣虾尾 平野上单打说不定能撕一局
IP属地:江苏来自Android客户端14楼2023-12-10 01:40
Hirano might have been able to tear off a game if she played WS

户上不容小觑啊 (Togami should not be underestimated)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8779703718
啊啊啊啊啊啊老师 今天混双户上的反手立了大功啊，尤其是对骰子
IP属地:浙江来自Android客户端1楼2023-12-09 23:36
Togami's BH played a big role in XD today, especially against Dice [WCQ]

诛仙能 户上感觉之前打到决赛还不错，日本这次最大问题就是没有带左手，混双还好，男双没有左手真的太痛苦了
IP属地:四川来自Android客户端2楼2023-12-09 23:56
It feels to me that Togami has been pretty good in the final in the past. The biggest problem for Japan this time is that they didn’t bring a lefty. XD is doable, but MD is really painful without a lefty

早田又双叒叕 (Hayata yet yet yet yet again)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8779397241
是吖轩啊 早田也是赔钱了，从🐟手上一局也拿不了
IP属地:河北来自Android客户端1楼2023-12-09 20:44
Hayata is also inept and couldn't get a single game from 🐟

上帝无言34 还不如美和
IP属地:江苏来自iPhone客户端3楼2023-12-09 20:46
Not as good as Miwa

X97 今天早田给人感觉状态一般
IP属地:北京6楼2023-12-09 20:51
Hayata's condition seems so-so today

ubidge 这次混团，日本女队最赚的就是美和和木原。早田状态不算好，平野浪费这么多天就上一场血亏，美和表现相当亮眼很赚，在家的伊藤因为美和的亮眼表现也亏，木原喝了几天的奶茶血赚。
IP属地:浙江来自Android客户端7楼2023-12-09 20:56
In this XT, the most profitable members on the Japanese women's team are Miwa and Kihara. Hayata's condition is not good, Hirano loses the most after wasting so many days only to play once [TL's note: twice], Miwa performs very well and profits a lot, Ito at home also suffers a loss because of Miwa's outstanding performance, and Kihara has drunk milk tea for a few days and profits so much.

【木原】今晚上也太赔钱了 ([Kihara] too inept tonight)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8779528264
hasta 各种花式失误，张本美和确实🐮b。真的可以说是带着木原在打。
IP属地:四川来自iPhone客户端1楼2023-12-09 21:55
Various fancy mistakes, Harimoto Miwa indeed 🐮b [the shit]. It can be said that she is playing by carrying Kihara.

贴吧用户_ayGZMAU 美和以后有点威胁的，果品新生代太差劲了
IP属地:广西来自Android客户端2楼2023-12-09 21:59
Miwa will be a bit of a threat in the future. The new generation of CNT is too bad

A.K.B 木原本来就是赔钱货，特别对面还是她偶像，她巴不得送分
IP属地:广东来自iPhone客户端4楼2023-12-09 22:09
Kihara is always a loss-making good, especially when the opponent is her idol [TL's note: CM], she is eager to give away points

墨染倾城 日本队今晚应该很开心，估计他们都在想洛杉矶的奖牌了。本妹这种潜力巨大新人以前都是国乒的标配，没成想日本有了
IP属地:浙江来自Android客户端7楼2023-12-09 22:12
Japan should be very happy tonight. They are probably thinking about the medal at Los Angeles. Newcomers of Japanese girls with huge potential like this used to be standard for CNT, but I didn’t expect that Japan would get one now

 

[zeio]

After the CNT vs JPN match, at least one Tieba user is aware of the potential danger of a point-accrual selection system, which sounds fair at face value, but actually drives participants into cannibalizing each other.

Also, before the match, some Tieba users nailed the lineups for China and Japan while some others expected Hirano and Togami to play singles.

中国队应该停止内卷一致对外了 (CNT should stop all cannibalization and close ranks)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8779689157

樊振东这算是被张本三大赛两连扫了么 (Does this count as FZD being defeated by Harimoto twice in a row in the 3 majors?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8779465964
78纳 世锦赛男子团体
混合团体世界杯
IP属地:宁夏来自iPhone客户端1楼2023-12-09 21:21
WTTTC
XTWC
为了金牌怎么能说是遮 算吧，还都是在成都，成都张本就是牛，张无忌咋赢的呀
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端2楼2023-12-09 21:26
It counts, and both times in Chengdu as well. Chengdu Harimoto is the shit. How did JWJ win?
小活猪猪: 因为张本昨天没穿蓝色衣服
2023-12-9 23:47回复
Because Harimoto didn't wear blue yesterday
巴蜀民服: 回复 小活猪猪 :昨天张本打得太稳了，反手就没加力，质量根本没法和打樊振东和小布时比，让张玉珍可以腾出手来侧身，要是今天的反手速度，张玉珍侧身基本挥空拍。
2023-12-10 00:03回复
Yesterday, Harimoto played too safe, and there was no extra force in his BH. The quality was simply not comparable to when he played against FZD and Xiao Bu [TL's note: F. Lebrun], which allowed JWJ to free up his hand to step around. If it was the BH's speed today, JWJ's step-around would basically whiff the shot
巴蜀民服: 回复 为了金牌怎么能说是遮 :第二局三局，更是主动和张玉珍主打正手，不输才怪
2023-12-10 00:03回复
巴蜀民服: 回复 小活猪猪 :张本今天赢球，做好了三点。第一，先静下心来摆短劈长，不盲目出手，借鉴了打卡尔伯格第三局前面领先就是这个战术。第二，一旦进入相持对拉，尽量主打反手，并且反手一定要加质量，不能求稳，借鉴了输张玉珍的反面教训。至于正手，防守进攻都可以。第三，反手一定时不时的变线。
2023-12-10 00:03
Harimoto won today by doing three things well. First, calm down and use short and long pushes instead of blindly attacking. This is a tactic taken from the third game when he had the initial lead against Kallberg. Second, once into the rally, he focused on the BH if possible, and the BH must be of higher quality and cannot be safe. This is a lesson learned from the negative experience of losing to JWJ. As for the FH, it can be used defensively or offensively. Third, the BH must change paths from time to time.

巴拉巴拉小胖
团体世界杯三局两胜莎头 王曼昱 樊振东都输了，难评
IP属地:北京来自Android客户端4楼2023-12-09 21:36
XTWC BO3 ShaHead, WMY, FZD have all lost, hard to comment

今晚中日预测 (CHN vs JPN Lineups Prediction)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8778560448

 

[turbozed]

This was a great event for Harimoto (at least in MS). 2-1 FZD and 3-0 against Felix. Aside from just the results, his game looks revamped. The blocking is still there, but it's less defensive and he is either being more aggressive with his blocks or switching to an attacking shot after 1 block.

Makes me wonder if earlier in 2023 was an adjustment period for him to incorporate some of those defensive skills into his game and this new version is a planned progression of that. There's way more variation of pace and spin and it looks very disruptive for guys playing a power and speed based games. He's finding a lot more BH crosscourt winners too, so he's finding the right time to change up his placement.

Togami has had some success recently but he seems to operate at one gear. When his timing is off and when his opponents can adjust to his pace, he can drop a lot of points. I would be very interested to see how Harimoto's new game fares against Togami when they ultimately match up again.

 

[turbozed]

Umpire gave WCQ a fault on his serve. It looks like Alexis was not wrong. It’s a matter of who is bold enough to point it out

Finally a judge is doing something about it. Good to see. There was another egregious serve that he pulled out in game 1 at around deuce that Miwa completely dumped into the net. WCQ really loves to pull out those highly questionable serves at critical moments.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Congratulations to Sweden 8-6 over France including a great performance from Linda Bergstrom going 3-0 (20-18 in the 3rd) over Yuan Jia Nan.

 

[igorponger]

You need a magnifying loupe to view a gnat. Poor spectators sitting afar from the court. Poor, poor ones⛄⛄⛄

 

[turbozed]

Harimoto "best non-Chinese" loses his most critical match 1-2. Clearly Jang's more FH oriented, step around offensive Chinese H3 style was the difference in the match.

But don't worry, Harimoto doesn't need to change anything in his training methods.

What's your opinion if his 2-1 FZD and 3-0 FZD? Still think HT is trash?

 

[NextLevel]

What's your opinion if his 2-1 FZD and 3-0 FZD? Still think HT is trash?

I was hoping to give him time to volunteer his opinion unsolicited since this is the weekend. We will hopefully also get to see Jang vs FZD, though I suspect that Lim may get the call for that matchup.

 

[turbozed]

I was hoping to give him time to volunteer his opinion unsolicited since this is the weekend. We will hopefully also get to see Jang vs FZD, though I suspect that Lim may get the call for that matchup.

Haha good point. Was too impatient and maybe started the ribbing process too early (all in good fun of course).

In any case I'm excited to see if a more in depth conversation can be had about this phenomenon. It's intriguing how quickly people can write off athletes after a few disappointing outings. This happens in every sport but especially individual sports (non-team sports) as they have full ownership of their results.

It's way too easy to focus on one or a string of bad results to justify a preconceived narrative. The problem is that you have to apply that reasoning to every player, not just ones that for some reason have caught your ire currently. In the end, no player is safe from variance as even the greatest will suffer losses. Narratives might be more compelling, but sporting events where skills are reasonably similar all boil down to odds and chance, where players/teams can only give themselves incrementally better odds of winning.

 

[jfolsen]

Humans are hard wired for pattern recognition. Any trend in new data gets extrapolated into opinions and decisions, even if the "pattern" doesn't really exist.