ITTF Mixed Team World Cup 2023, Chengdu, 12/4-10

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I think it is very important to note that it is the Olympic year, and everything is based on it.
The men's pairing preparation will be for OG Teams.
Any other pairing months before the event is really not ideal, so unless Harimoto and Togami are going to be pairing in Paris, I won't even treat it as serious like all those 5ch users are. there is just no chance that Harimoto will be playing in the doubles.

Women's side is more interesting, as there is more depth in than the men's but still, doubles is a specialise position and very different training routines compared to your singles

Due to mafia approach, JNT top players had to pitch in this event. So they have pitch and they don't need to be making negative inroads for Paris.

There is a reason why so many players give this teams world cup a missed, and some players that are there are "just relaxing". You won't see too many players playing they energy out to win.

just relaxing or not; I am entertained by some of the matches. FZD vs Felix, JWJ vs TH, TH vs Felix etc.

Maybe my standard is a bit low.

 

[zeio]

Hayata should take note here. A 40.9-year-old did what she couldn't.

GER 0-3 -> 3-3 -> 5-4 -> 5-7 -> 6-8 KOR
Meissner/Winter 0-3 JWJ/JJH (-6, -9, -9)
SXN 3-0 Kim Nayeong (3, 6, 11)
G3 03 TO for GER, 04, 910, 1311
Walther 2-1 AJH (11, -3, 7)
Meissner/Walther 0-1 LJH/AJH (-4, -7, -10)
SXN/Winter 1-1 Lee Zion/JJH (4, -8)
G2 03, 33, 36, 56 TO for KOR, 57, 77, 79 Winter drops two, 710, 810 Winter saves one, 811

It was no fluke that SXN took Hayata to the 5th at WTT CS Frankfurt 2023.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

just relaxing or not; I am entertained by some of the matches. FZD vs Felix, JWJ vs TH, TH vs Felix etc.

Maybe my standard is a bit low.

yeah, you will have some good matches for sure, especially if the player wants to win - they will fight.
but, its the same as last years teams world champs in Chengdu (seems like its always Chengdu lol).

If you know your team can't make it, will you as the player, push so hard that you can risk injury (further injury) or what not.
so this has been a major talking point about "what is the purpose", hence I came up with the word "useless", or nothing to gain.

It is a sad stage that it comes to players just pitching (or really give it a pass), and just playing enough to win, or just enough to win 1 or 2 games, as they don't want to over play/push themselves, as the risks isn't worth it.
This is more an organizational issue than anything.

When the "points" was released, none of the Chinese Taipei men's players was interested to continue playing.
And you can also see, how rested the No1 women's player is there.
They have a more important domestic tournament that starts on the 11th (the very next day), so, the mind is all there now.

whereas, where are the Swedes, German, Indian, etc, I didn't go dig to find out why they aren't in Chengdu.

I do think the XDWC idea is good, but wrong timing and too little points to be really worth fighting for.

If each player can walk away with 1000 points, you will see a total different roster and seriousness.
so something for ITTF to plan properly for the next one.

They should not treat the well being of the players as marketing tools. Tournaments are too back to back, with little points and price money.

 

[Shine]

Harimoto "best non-Chinese" loses his most critical match 1-2. Clearly Jang's more FH oriented, step around offensive Chinese H3 style was the difference in the match.

But don't worry, Harimoto doesn't need to change anything in his training methods.

It can happen to anyone, even FZD has lost a lotta matches being too comfortable playing with his BH.

 

[Shine]

Surprisingly, 5ch users want Hirano instead of Harimoto after Hayata's performance. It's only moments like this that you find out who people truly trust.

https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1701557094/
0744名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 14:56:16.57ID:c6te5Kzz
やぱり早田さん生理っぽいわね
私女だからわかるわ
It looks like Hayata is on her period after all
I know because I am a woman

0749名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 15:43:04.07ID:YyUek/oG
日本男子弱すぎ
Nippon men are too weak

0750名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 15:43:31.57ID:UO7jm8Sy
糞雑魚だな張本は
Harimoto is crappy rough fish

0752名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 15:46:44.01ID:UO7jm8Sy
戦犯は張本家ということになるかな
I guess the war criminal is the Harimoto family

0755名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 15:52:56.26ID:zKOF0XWH
ナヨンちゃんは早田さんから1ゲームとった
殊勲賞だな
Nayeong took one game from Hayata
It's a distinguished service award

0761名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 16:12:33.40ID/6h4qjA
戦犯は張本兄だな
The war criminal is Harimoto brother

0764名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 16:16:24.04ID/6h4qjA
戦犯張本兄死ね
Die, war criminal Harimoto brother

0771名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 16:25:28.72ID:YyUek/oG
戦犯というなら他におるだろう　日本卓球協会
張本は犠牲者だろう　何をボケたことを言っている
If there's a war criminal, it's probably someone else: the JTTA
Harimoto is the victim, right? What nonsense are you saying?

0778名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 17:48:29.58ID:uvBkJkJM
監督がダメすぎる。
平野2試合とも3-0で勝ってるんだから、もっと使えよ。
The director is too bad
Hirano won both games 3-0, and should've been used more

0788名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 18:52:50.88ID:FzgHSiUW
平野もわざわざ遠征してこんな扱い受けるなら日本に残って選手権に向けて特訓してた方が良かったかもな
If Hirano was going to go out of her way to travel and be treated like this, she might have been better off staying in Japan and training for the championships

0790名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 19:03:39.07ID:R3Z9l6cQ
ハリケーンは勝ったのけ？
Did Hurricane win?

0791名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 19:10:24.68ID:X1r2aZcq
ば監督
選手のメンタル破壊作戦
Stupid director

Operation Players Mental Destruction

0794名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 19:26:19.81ID:F5zscia+
韓国に負けたのは許せない。恥だ。
Losing to Korea is unforgivable. What a shame.

0795名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 19:26:29.54ID:5mYlNQ3G
一番人気の秘密兵器は温存されたままだった
The most popular secret weapon remained preserved

0796名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 19:29:34.78ID:F5zscia+
韓国に負けたらパリ五輪でメダル取れないも同然😾
Losing to Korea is equivalent to not getting a medal at the Paris Olympics 😾

0800名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 20:11:35.48ID:yxjm+c3t
今日の韓国戦見てると
韓国は今日のオーダーでも日本に余裕で勝てると思ったからあえてユビン出さなかったのかな
日本舐められすぎｗ
Watching today's battle against South Korea
I guess Korea didn't intentionally send out Yubin because they thought they could comfortably beat Japan even with today's lineup
Japan is underestimated too much lol

0801名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 20:18:24.80ID:qKuIukb6
戦犯　張本兄妹
War criminal Harimoto siblings

0802名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 20:19:07.57ID:wd5cGS84
ちゅーか序盤から早田と張本使いすぎだよなあ。
試合は長いんだから強敵戦に備えて温存しとかないと。平野とかもっと使ってやればいいのに
Hayata and Harimoto have been used too much from the beginning
The tournament is long, so it's a must to save it for a tough opponent. I wish they used Hirano more

0804名無しＱ(･∀･)ﾉ゜ｻｧﾝ!!
2023/12/08(金) 20:50:21.09ID:yxjm+c3t
>>801
いちいち戦犯戦犯うるさい
今日の負けは張本兄妹だけのせいじゃない
戦犯とかほざくなら張兄と早田ばっかしのワンパターンなオーダーしか組めない監督が最も戦犯じゃないか
War criminal, war criminal...it is so annoying
Today's loss wasn't just the Harimoto siblings' fault
If you're talking about war criminals, isn't the director who can only create one-size-fits-all lineup like Harimoto brother and Hayata the biggest war criminal?

People talk about muh fair selection criteria!!!!!!!. These are Japanese folks lambasting the Director of the team over not being fair. Apparently the four year rigmarole matters little to them.

If the choice of who gets to play on the matchday is up to the director, and someone like Hirano who's 2nd in the Singles race only gets to play twice. What's equitable about this??

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

These are Japanese folks lambasting the Director of the team over not being fair.

its coach potatoes at most

 

[zeio]

People talk about muh fair selection criteria!!!!!!!. These are Japanese folks lambasting the Director of the team over not being fair. Apparently the four year rigmarole matters little to them.

If the choice of who gets to play on the matchday is up to the director, and someone like Hirano who's 2nd in the Singles race only gets to play twice. What's equitable about this??

You're telling me!

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/19th-asian-games-hangzhou.31953/post-425065

HKG stuck with the original lineups as well (with Minnie Soo being replaced by Lam Yee Lok due to her condition), and like TPE, those are the best lineups they could've fielded at the time before the entry deadline for Asian Games 2022. Kao Cheng-Jui didn't start to shine until WTT CT Lima in August, which was too late.

Not the case for JPN and KOR at the time. Without LJH and SYB, the men's and women's teams would've been much weaker. South Korea was wise to redo the selections. At the end of the day, people don't care about fairness when you don't bring home the medals that you could have.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1145007

Can't wait to see Miyazaki speak about fairness with a straight face after this. Selecting players that you don't trust, don't feel safe and don't want to field in actual matches is fair to them? What's the point of having Oikawa and Matsushita sit there if they couldn't even offload some of the pressure when necessary, the least that they could do? The team lineup is so inflexible they can't even mix it up, every team knows and hence prepares for Harimoto as 1st singles, Togami as 2nd singles and Yoshimura as 3rd singles. The revamped selection system ends up being a farce because of rigidity.

Look at South Korea. Yoo Namkyu *bleep* up the last Olympic cycle with the "infinite/endless competition". LJH has a poor track record in internal selections. SYB was still recovering from her wrist injury last year after WTTC 2021 and because of that wasn't even on the KNT since she couldn't participate in the national team tryout. Check out the original lineups before the Asian Games were postponed. Yes, they chose to redo the selections.

What did Japan do? Stick with the original lineups. The women are more or less identical with the current standings, with Ito and Sato in 3rd and 5th, who have chosen to not participate. But the men? M. Yoshimura, Oikawa and Matsushita are ranked 8th, 9th and 14th, respectively, whereas Tanaka, Shinozuka and R. Yoshiyama are ranked 3rd, 4th and 5th. How rigid is that?

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1141827
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-be-revamped-for-paris-2024.24977/post-353501

 

[zeio]

From the first try, it can be argued Miwa has the highest TT quotient. The key is to match your swipe to the decreasing period of the bounce but with a phase shift, like the sine and cosine functions.

 

[blahness]

I think best of 3 matches are quite unfavourable to BH dominant rally players in general because usually you need to warm everything up a bit and get used to the opponent's balls to really return all of the 1st topspin loops and force the game into rally mode. These kind of matches are beneficial for FH dominant loopkill players (for eg Jang Woojin, Ma Long) because they can place huge pressure on the opponent's tightness of game very early on (are the serves truly short and on point?)

 

[zeio]

A Tieba user who has been writing articles before significant match-ups has this to say about CHN vs JPN.

最后两场困难挑战！日本率先发难，国乒如何接招？ (The last two matches with difficult challenges! Japan took the first shot, how will the CNT respond?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8778417738

经过5天的比赛，成都混合团体世界杯的赛程已经接近尾声。但根据过去的比赛情况来看，越到后面比赛难度就越大。这一次国乒将对阵日本队，而日本队的阵容也基本上是明牌了，那么国乒会如何接招呢？

对手是中国队，那么日本队必然是让张本智和负责男单，因为张本智和在2022年成都团体世乒赛上，以一己之力吊打了王楚钦，险胜了樊振东，如果不是因为马龙赢下三单比赛，那国乒那次就完蛋了。

另外就是混双，虽然张本智和/早田希娜是日本队最强混双，但同时也是我们最为熟悉的一对混双，就算张本智和不负责男单，那张本智和/早田希娜要想拿下一两局的可能性也不大。反而是日本队在这次比赛中经常派出的户上隼辅/张本美和，国乒并不是很熟悉，爆冷的可能性相对较大。

女单方面，由于梦莎昱对阵早田希娜都是全胜，并且大多是大比分取胜，因此日本队用早田希娜不一定能搏下一两局；反倒是平野美宇，今年以4-3战胜过孙颖莎，跟陈梦也能拼5局，并且2-1领先被逆转，跟王曼昱上一次交手还是两年前了。让平野美宇负责女单，爆冷国乒的可能性会更大。

而一旦拖到了第四盘，日本队必然选择女双。日本女双的实力相对较强，并且这个阵容组合也多。例如张本美和/木原美悠就在亚运会赢过孙颖莎/王曼昱；早田希娜作为左手球员，她可以与其他任何一名右手球员组女双。也就是说，以日本女队的实力，如果拖到第四盘打女双，那就有可能打到第五盘。

这样看来，国乒与日本的比赛势必会非常激烈且困难。因为首盘混双如果让王楚钦上，他的问题就比较大，不仅仅是自己不具备很强的主动得分能力，靠女搭档发动，自己容易失误，而且面对不熟悉的对手就更是这样，前面的比赛就已经证明了这一点。

而如果混双用林高远/王曼昱或者王艺迪，这个问题就在于，林高远跟王曼昱重新磨合的时间太短了，而王艺迪的应变能力比较弱。而一旦混双排不好，就很影响后续的排兵布阵。那么各位球迷认为国乒会出什么阵容呢？欢迎留言。

After 5 days of competition, the Mixed Team World Cup Chengdu is coming to an end. But judging from past competitions, the competition becomes more difficult the closer you are to the finish line. This time the CNT will face off the JNT, and Japan's lineup is basically out of the bag. So how will the CNT respond?

The opponent is China, so Japan must let Harimoto Tomokazu take charge of the MS, because Harimoto single-handedly defeated WCQ and narrowly defeated FZD at the 2022 World Team Table Tennis Championships Chengdu. If it weren't for ML who won the 3rd singles match, then the CNT would have been finished that time.

The other is the XD. Although Harimoto Tomokazu/Hayata are the strongest XD pair in Japan, they are also the XD pair we are most familiar with. Even if Harimoto Tomokazu is not responsible for the MS, the possibility of Harimoto Tomokazu/Hayata winning one or two games is also slim. On the contrary, Togami/Harimoto Miwa, who are often fielded by Japan in this competition, are not very familiar to the CNT, and the possibility of an upset is relatively high.

In the WS, since Meng/Sha/Yu are undefeated against Hayata, and most of them were won by a big lead, Japan may not be able to get one or two games with Hayata; on the contrary, Hirano, who defeated SYS 4-3 this year, and was able to fight 5 games with CM, and was 2-1 in the lead before being turned around. The last time she played against WMY was two years ago. Letting Hirano be in charge of the WS, the possibility of upsetting the CNT will be greater.

And once it reaches the fourth match, Japan will inevitably choose WD. Japan's WD is relatively strong, and there are many combinations in this lineup. For example, Harimoto Miwa/Kihara defeated SYS/WMY at the Asian Games; Hayata is a left-handed player, and she can form WD with any other right-handed players. In other words, with the strength of the Japanese women's team, if the match is dragged to the fourth match of WD, it is possible to extend to the fifth match.

From this point of view, the match between China and Japan is bound to be very intense and difficult. Because if WCQ is fielded in the first match of XD, he will have a bigger problem. Not only does he lack a strong ability to actively score and relying on his female partner to initiate, he is prone to making errors, but this is especially true when facing unfamiliar opponents, the previous matches have already proved this.

And if LGY/WMY or WYD are fielded in XD, the problem is that the time for LGY and WMY to break in is too short, and WYD's adaptability is relatively weak. And once the XD is poorly matched up, it will greatly affect the subsequent matches. So what lineup do you think the CNT will field? Feel free to leave your comment.

 

[zeio]

CHN 1-2 -> 4-2 -> 5-4 -> 7-5 -> 8-5 JPN
WCQ/SYS 1-2 Miwa/Togami
G2 07, 27, 58 TO for JPN, 59, 109 five in a row for CHN, 1011, 1111, 1113
Absent for most of G1, Togami's soul finally found his way to Table 1 in G2.
G3 20, 22, 32, 33 WCQ faulted for non-vertical toss (warned at the start of G1), 43, 45, 55, 56 TO for CHN, 57, 67, 68, 78, 710, 910, 911
Harimoto Miwa for Paris 2024
WMY 3-0 Hayata (6, 9, 5)
FZD 0-2 -> 1-2 Miwa's brother (-3, -6, 7)
311
01, 21, 22, 32, 34 TO for CHN, 37 epic point from Harimoto, 47, 49, 59, 510 endline edge for Harimoto, 610, 611
01, 21, 22, 32, 33 big net for Harimoto, 43, 45, 55, 56 side fair play from FZD, 76 TO for JPN, 96, 97, 117
WMY/CM 0-1 -> 2-1 Harimoto/Kihara
37, 67 TO for JPN, 77, 79, 99 Kihara drops two, 910 endline edge for Kihara, 1010, 1012 dead net for Kihara
60, 61, 81, 83, 113. Kihara is starting to break up
20, 22, 32, 34, 44, 46 slight net for Kihara and TO for CHN, 56, 57, 67 net for WMY, 97 four in a row for CHN and yellow to Kihara, 99 dead net for Harimoto, 910 dead net for Kihara, 1010, 1011 epic FH from Kihara, 1311
WCQ/ML 1-0 Sone/Togami (5)

https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8763193117?pn=18
贴吧用户_0DK84DK 迪亚兹真努力，打完混团马不停蹄跑去打t联赛
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端549楼2023-12-09 16:24
Diaz is working hard. After playing in the mixed team, she runs non-stop to play in the T.League
贴吧用户_0DK84DK: 可惜，一局定胜负输给何卓佳，但赢下长崎也算立功了
2023-12-9 16:31
A pity she lost to HZJ in M5, but beating Nagasaki makes up for it

贴吧用户_0DK84DK 本子机灵点就该让户上早田去混双，摩托平野单打，第四盘选女双无论早田美和还是平野早田都有竞争力，就看本子猪头教练敢不敢搏了
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端552楼2023-12-09 17:11
If Japan is smart, they should let Togami/Hayata play XD, Moto and Hirano play singles, and for the fourth match of WD, both Miwa/Hayata and Hirano/Hayata are competitive. It depends on whether Japan's dumb coaches have the courage to wager

小花酱😽 平野一直当观众，也没得到与中国队交手的机会，她还不如不来这个比赛！还是伊藤比较有格局
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端555楼2023-12-09 18:57
Hirano has been a spectator and does not get a chance to play against the CNT. She might as well not have come to this competition! Ito is still more sagacious

 

[fore.n.back]

CHN - JPN
WCQ/SYS - Miwa/Togami
WMY - Hayata
FZD - Miwa's brother

I was hoping for JPN to make a bold move and get Togami on the MS spot though lmao

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I think best of 3 matches are quite unfavourable to BH dominant rally players in general because usually you need to warm everything up a bit and get used to the opponent's balls to really return all of the 1st topspin loops and force the game into rally mode. These kind of matches are beneficial for FH dominant loopkill players (for eg Jang Woojin, Ma Long) because they can place huge pressure on the opponent's tightness of game very early on (are the serves truly short and on point?)

wow! very good insight this post is.

 

[driversbeat]

CHN - JPN
WCQ/SYS - Miwa/Togami
WMY - Hayata
FZD - Miwa's brother

https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8763193117?pn=18
贴吧用户_0DK84DK 迪亚兹真努力，打完混团马不停蹄跑去打t联赛
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端549楼2023-12-09 16:24
Diaz is working hard. After playing in the XT, she runs non-stop to play in the T.League
贴吧用户_0DK84DK: 可惜，一局定胜负输给何卓佳，但赢下长崎也算立功了
2023-12-9 16:31
A pity she lost to HZJ in M5, but beating Nagasaki makes up for it

贴吧用户_0DK84DK 本子机灵点就该让户上早田去混双，摩托平野单打，第四盘选女双无论早田美和还是平野早田都有竞争力，就看本子猪头教练敢不敢搏了
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端552楼2023-12-09 17:11
If Japan is smart, they should let Togami/Hayata play XD, Moto and Hirano play singles, and for the fourth match of WD, both Miwa/Hayata and Hirano/Hayata are competitive. It depends on whether Japan's dumb coaches have the courage to wager

小花酱😽 平野一直当观众，也没得到与中国队交手的机会，她还不如不来这个比赛！还是伊藤比较有格局
IP属地:山东来自Android客户端555楼2023-12-09 18:57
Hirano has been a spectator and does not get a chance to play against the CNT. She might as well not have come to this competition! Ito is still more sagacious

Translation is too kind. The original says 'Japan's pig headed coach' which is very fitting. And yes, I think this XT event justifies Ito's alleged lack of team spirit. She probably knows exactly how pig headed management is and doesn't want to play along.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think best of 3 matches are quite unfavourable to BH dominant rally players in general because usually you need to warm everything up a bit and get used to the opponent's balls to really return all of the 1st topspin loops and force the game into rally mode. These kind of matches are beneficial for FH dominant loopkill players (for eg Jang Woojin, Ma Long) because they can place huge pressure on the opponent's tightness of game very early on (are the serves truly short and on point?)

its difficult to say,
I know a strong BH player, who can attacked from the service return with his BH.
His name is Lin Yunju
He can win points before giving the opponent a chance on the FH.

However, there are 2 things that came into my mind.
In fact, I was chatting to a national team team manager on Wednesday about if Wang Liqin had to play this game, since he only switches on half way through the 2nd game, maybe even the 3rd game. But once he switches on, there is no one take can switch him off again.
And now I think of choppers. Choppers have more advantage when the game goes deep and long - ie 7th game decider. For a 3 game match up, choppers does loose a lot and in a deep disadvantage

 

[zeio]

Is Togami really going to Paris 2024?

All right, he's redeemed his spot, thanks to Miwa.

 

[SFF_lib]

Togami’s performance is better today!!

 

[fore.n.back]

Where has this Togami been when Japan was against Sweden and Korea? He played phenomenal

Miwa was a bit underwhelming today, but it's Wang CQ and his dirty serve so I can't blame her much. Wang pulled the hidden serve at 0-7 in the 2nd set and almost win lol

 

[SFF_lib]

Umpire gave WCQ a fault on his serve. It looks like Alexis was not wrong. It’s a matter of who is bold enough to point it out

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Fantastic play from Togami/Miwa! SYS looked very vulnerable.