Kim Jung Hoon BH Fast Loop vid... a few revelations

[Der_Echte]

KJH made this vid in May 2018 right after his club got sponsored by Joola… The first couple minutes of the vid KJH spends a lot of time discussion some fundamentals many players do not think of. This part 2 of the last KJH BH fast loop vid vs underspin where he discussed a lot of good fundamentals. He overlaps here and adds new dimension of visualizing it all.

Some of the keys to the consistency and power of the shot...

- Feet wide, bend knees
- Your position must be secure and not "shake" (not be changing/moving)
- Give yourself some knee bend and waist turn space
- Be sure to turn upper body, not just lower body
- Make a little space to the front, allow ball to come to impact zone
- Keep left foot planted (if right handed player) so you return to base position after shot
- Your waist will be squared to your target
- You can move your target with more waist turn before shot
- Timing the arrival of ball is critical
- The ABS ball does not bounce as far back as the cell ball or seamless ball
- Be ready to be positioned closer to table with ABS ball
- Amateurs generally stand too far back to effectively hit in the right impact zone - move closer to table
- Use your free hand to help deliver force to ball, throw it out as you swing
- You might have to speed up your timing and swing
- Change your timing based on the ball
- Get bent and ready, you can adapt to the ball
- Do not exaggerate the sequence of muscle explosions
- The explosion sequence should not take forever
- Don't panic and hurry up too much, you will mess up your explosion sequence
- There is a backswing, a pause to be loose, and an explosion
- Come from below the ball, move bat up and before contact it should be going forward
- This is kinda like the back and top part of a candy cane
- Do not swing to the side or over swing the stroke
- Your bat at and after impact should be going where you want the ball to go
- KJH says it is an advanced skill to do the fast loop vs underspin BH close to table
- KJH says we should be happy playing TT and work to all become Div 1 players

 

[Lula]

I find it interesting that alot of asian players advice to use body when looping with backhand against backspin. Do not see alot of europeans doing that. I am not doing that and have trouble teaching others that. But then i have trouble looping hard against backspin with the backhand som maybe we need the body to get power. Do you guys use the body alot when looping at backspin with backhand?

 

[hipnotic]

Yeah, i bend my knees, rotate slightly to the left (i'm right handed) then explode up while accelerating the forearm and the wrist. I used to play tennis so my movement is very rooted on my tennis basics.

 

[FruitLoop]

I find it interesting that alot of asian players advice to use body when looping with backhand against backspin. Do not see alot of europeans doing that. I am not doing that and have trouble teaching others that. But then i have trouble looping hard against backspin with the backhand som maybe we need the body to get power. Do you guys use the body alot when looping at backspin with backhand?

I see almost all top Europeans using the bowing action with the upper body when hitting backhand Vs backspin. They dip they upper body towards the ball on backswing then it lifts up on forward swing.

This is what Brett teaches on TT Edge also.

 

[Lula]

I see almost all top Europeans using the bowing action with the upper body when hitting backhand Vs backspin. They dip they upper body towards the ball on backswing then it lifts up on forward swing.

This is what Brett teaches on TT Edge also.

Yes i agree with this, but i meant more the rotation from left to right. Like Liu does in this video when he demonstrates for Ma.

But maybe that is esentially the same thing like what you described.

Brett have pretty fun ways of explaining things, which is good i think!

 

[Der_Echte]

Lula, you make a good point of emphasis that KJH addressed and I didn't really communicate enough. I said that KJH said keep stance planted to allow movement, but no over swing.

The BH fast loop vs underspin KJH advocates uses the wide stance and keeping both feet on ground has several purposes. He discussed them, but since I did a quick key point summary, I now see this is another one of those revelations to understand why he advises what he does.

KJH's wider stance and planting feet help out with...:
- Allowing smooth quick engagement where you gotta act quick vs a fast incoming underspin
- Allows player to swing hips and upper body to give yourself options...
- The option to hit it fast down the line (you hit where you are squared towards)
- The option to rotate waist and upper body towards opponent's BH corner and hit it fast there
- The stance and feet plant provide the player a base of stability and leverage
- The stability and leverage are big time important when you have to do the stroke quickly under pressure vs fast push
- This helps one transfer power efficiently and keep balance for options to play the next ball

 

[Der_Echte]

I find it interesting that alot of asian players advice to use body when looping with backhand against backspin. Do not see alot of europeans doing that. I am not doing that and have trouble teaching others that. But then i have trouble looping hard against backspin with the backhand som maybe we need the body to get power. Do you guys use the body alot when looping at backspin with backhand?

Personally (even before I saw KJH vids) Der_Echte vs an underspin ball would basically get down and up.

My variations of Slow/Extreme Heavy Spin, Medium/Med-Heavy Spin, and Fast/Medium Spin shots used the same base and down/up to generate power and leverage, but would have a different amount of forward movement before shot, different bat angle (progressively more open) and degree of brush or solid impact (progressively less brush and more solid impact)

I find it very difficult to loop with power or rotation standing up vs underspin.

Now I say it is a totally different story vs the underspin on serve when you are receiving and want to make a topspin. You still make a squat-down and movement up, but it is much less pronounced. One can get the lower arm moving (with less speed and power) and use the wrist/grip pressure to adjust for the ball to give back a secure, but less powerful BH topspin return.

That shot can still be a pressure shot if done suddenly or placement/spin/pace is right.

I got decently large quads and hammies. When I get down and explode up, I can bring a lot of energy that I can transfer to the ball in terms of speed or spin.

 

[Der_Echte]

My base BH vs underspin, I would be setting my position square to where I wanted to hit from the beginning. That is a simple approach. I would be basically squaring away position early, then going down and up (more forward/open/solid impact for faster loops).

What KJH shows is one can preload to hit down the line, then whip (or start rotation a little early) waist and upper body to BH corner to hit there.

What KJH shows really gives one more options. I should try to use that approach.

 

[FruitLoop]

Yes i agree with this, but i meant more the rotation from left to right. Like Liu does in this video when he demonstrates for Ma.

But maybe that is esentially the same thing like what you described.

Brett have pretty fun ways of explaining things, which is good i think!

I think it's the same principle just on two angles. So the bowing up and down and rotation both act the same way to give greater acceleration on the backhand swing path. It's the same on forehand vs backspin. I think both are important but the hip rotation is more important the bigger the swing you go for.

 

[Lula]

I think i always have been lowering the body, bending the legs alot and moving upwards a little when doing the opener against backspin. I have not really implemented the hip rotation as explained by you guys and shown in the video above, but i tried a little today and felt that i get more power in the ball. It is not at all safe and very difficult to time now in the beginning but i think it could be a good thing to practice. I have very good spin in the slow loop against backspin but have more trouble looping hard against backspin and maybe this is what have been missing.

I think it makes sense that it is needed for the power when i think about it.I use the wrist and forearm good, and that is why i get good spin. But the for the power in the forehand loop i need to use the body more, but i do not really use the body with my backhand against backspin and that is proably way i do not have so much power in the ball. Is is also harder to use the arm to get more power in the backhand since the body is in the way.

I will keep trying to using the body. Thanks for your help!

 

[Der_Echte]

@LittleDragonman7 @IB66 @Wrighty67

This is a good thread to look at for your BH.