Tactics when your loop gets chopblocked

[blahness]

So this is kinda a common situation I face now (due to facing off against too many twiddling pips penholders).

I do an opening loop and it gets spin reversed (with my own spin) using the pips to form a kinda disgusting return that has quite a bit of underspin and sometimes side underspin and sometimes no spin.

If I continue looping they can continue doing this disgusting block. Sometimes I can overcome them with sheer power, but only at the expense of consistency. If I push I'm pretty much toast (unless it's a short ball which I can add some serious angles and speed with the push) because the penhold FH loopkill is not that easy to defend against.

I can reduce their consistency a lot by varying this opening loop, but eventually I still need to deal with this chopblock (with pips it can be incredibly consistent!).

I know @Takkyu_wa_inochi recommended using no spin lifting loops to deal with this which I will try as well.

Just curious what other strategies can be employed?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I think one good strategy (that i'm unable to execute because im too slow) is to move quickly to the ball and if you're able to play near the top of the bounce then so many options are available. I do the no-spin loop only because im slow to move and play the ball well its already below the table.

 

[NDH]

If I push I'm pretty much toast (unless it's a short ball which I can add some serious angles and speed with the push) because the penhold FH loopkill is not that easy to defend against.

I don't know what level you are playing at here, so it's difficult to advise appropriately.

Typically, if you can't loop twice in a row because of the backspin, your best bet is to loop - push - loop - push and so on.

If they are someone who will come in and attack you the minute you push, try and keep it away from their weapons (given the above info, that would be a push to their backhand side).

You just need to stay aggressive and not get drawn into a push fest, which often happens against people with funny rubbers!

 

[Dominikk85]

Not super advanced but maybe play to the other with where he doesn't chop with?

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I don't know what level you are playing at here, so it's difficult to advise appropriately.

Typically, if you can't loop twice in a row because of the backspin, your best bet is to loop - push - loop - push and so on.

If they are someone who will come in and attack you the minute you push, try and keep it away from their weapons (given the above info, that would be a push to their backhand side).

You just need to stay aggressive and not get drawn into a push fest, which often happens against people with funny rubbers!

In my club, long-pips grandpa loves backspin pushes. The minute you give long-pips grandpa a backspin push, he uses those darn funky rubber with weird funky wrist motion and the ball shoots fast and furious to either side wide angle depending on long-pips grandpa wish and desire.

Hence I have no choice but to loop continuously to force him back off the table and hope long-pip grandpa makes a unforced error blocking. If you force him far enough many a times the ball unable to cross the net. Even if the ball is half long, I must also loop it to wing it.

If the ball is short ( double bounce on table ) then I try to push long and deep.

You just have to loop deep and force him back from the table. There is no time for sheepish play with these darn pesky long-pips grandpa.

All in all, it is easier said than done. I still lose to long-pips grandpa regularly. Theory is theory, execution is the key.

p/s Long-pips grandpa uses C-Pen with long-pips one side and short-pips the other side and he twiddles.

 

[ck1407]

I think you should change up the depth where your loops land on your opponent's side of the table. Chopblocking is a move that is very reliant on timing so by mixing up the rhythm of your returns, it makes your opponent more hesitant.
U can do so by varying how you exert your strength. Some shots focus on spin to make it arc and land on the inside of the table, hit through the ball more to make it land deeper into the table and push balls that you are not comfortable looping. Timo boll does this very well so you can watch him play against choppers and see how he control his ball placements

Variation is key

 

[NDH]

In my club, long-pips grandpa loves backspin pushes. The minute you give long-pips grandpa a backspin push, he uses those darn funky rubber with weird funky wrist motion and the ball shoots fast and furious to either side wide angle depending on long-pips grandpa wish and desire.

Hence I have no choice but to loop continuously to force him back off the table and hope long-pip grandpa makes a unforced error blocking. If you force him far enough many a times the ball unable to cross the net. Even if the ball is half long, I must also loop it to wing it.

This is the right tactic if you can do it.

However, it all depends on the level of players.

I tend to find the tactic of looping consistently is the right way to go for players (both attacker and defender) who sit in the middle end of the ability spectrum.

The attack isn't hard enough to cause instant problems (hence the need to loop multiple times) and the defence isn't good enough (or spiny enough) to cause the attacker to miss.

At the low end of the ability ladder, you just don't have the shots or consistency to even ask these types of questions.

At the upper end of the ability ladder, you get defenders who just absolutely rip it, and if I loop hard at them and they rip it back, unless I lift it to the moon, it's very difficult to consistently keep them pegged back.

It's usually a loop loop push situation (and by "push" I mean I angle my bat where I want the ball to go, and the enormous amount of spin just catapults of my stationary bat....Very little movement needed!)

 

[yoass]

There's always ball placement options to consider.

 

[dingyibvs]

I think one good strategy (that i'm unable to execute because im too slow) is to move quickly to the ball and if you're able to play near the top of the bounce then so many options are available. I do the no-spin loop only because im slow to move and play the ball well its already below the table.

Agreed, move quickly, and power loop that shiz early. Power is the key to get past pips once you can read their spin. Chopblocks need to be done off the bounce, meaning they need to be close to the table, meaning reaction time is limited if you can power loop to both corners. Avoid looping to the middle against penholders, it's for sure not a weakness in their defence! If you've got a power loop in your arsenal from the BH side as well it becomes super easy.

No spin loops are not easy to execute, the lack of spin significantly reduces margin of error. It's very easy to loop too high and get smashed back. If you can't power loop consistently I don't see how learning a new shot would help.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

NDH has spoken!

 

[blahness]

thanks all for the advice. It seems like basically it's:

a) Try to vary the 1st loop enough to drastically reduce the success rates of the chopblock. Spin, placement, etc...

b) move into position fast, try to get a FH loopkill in aka dingyibvs style. This is probably what I lack because I like BH way too much.

c) loop - push situation and I guess to really focus on push quality and defence after that - but I think this one is the hardest to get working.

In terms of level these combination pips guys are like RC1600-1800 guys here which from what I've heard is almost like USATT2200-2400+ level.

 

[Ghostzen]

thanks all for the advice. It seems like basically it's:

a) Try to vary the 1st loop enough to drastically reduce the success rates of the chopblock. Spin, placement, etc...

b) move into position fast, try to get a FH loopkill in aka dingyibvs style. This is probably what I lack because I like BH way too much.

c) loop - push situation and I guess to really focus on push quality and defence after that - but I think this one is the hardest to get working.

In terms of level these combination pips guys are like RC1600-1800 guys here which from what I've heard is almost like USATT2200-2400+ level.

Variation is king to unsettle the player. Get them to move and keep them off balance as much as you can. Once these players get into a rhythm it’s pretty hard to claw things back. Worst it’s easy to lose a lot of points quickly.

Others have said it’s about sometimes getting the ball back on the table then looking to reset and go again to find that opening to play a winner of some kind.

As NDH said it’s really which level you are actually playing at….. If you are both playing at 2200-2400+ (massive gap between the 2 ratings levels) and they are as well then it should be a pretty level playing field. If you are stepping up from say 1800-2000 yourself to 2200 or higher then there’s a level difference and a technical difference. That’s a big hill to climb mind let alone the awkward style.

Have you got any video of these guys playing as it would be interesting to see how you lose/win points against.

 

[Der_Echte]

Maybe try turning tables on them and turn THEM into inconsistent attacker. Find their middle... push to middle then wide FH and dare them to step away, block to open area of table.

Get them out of their strong play cycle any way you can... tempt THEM to take the risk if you can.

 

[dingyibvs]

Maybe try turning tables on them and turn THEM into inconsistent attacker. Find their middle... push to middle then wide FH and dare them to step away, block to open area of table.

Get them out of their strong play cycle any way you can... tempt THEM to take the risk if you can.

2200+ are not gonna be bothered by pushes though. At higher levels the only way to go is to blast past them. Change of pace helps only after you've established that you can blast it first. Similarly with placement, only a fast drive aimed away from their body can get them out of position.

 

[blahness]

2200+ are not gonna be bothered by pushes though. At higher levels the only way to go is to blast past them. Change of pace helps only after you've established that you can blast it first. Similarly with placement, only a fast drive aimed away from their body can get them out of position.

I kinda dig your method. I had a lot of success when I simply started blasting big BHs to their wide FH lol. But it's very hard to do that when they're going to my wide BH, and if I drop the quality I'm too afraid of their FH attack.

So basically the pattern is that they go wide to my BH and wait for my BH loop to their diagonal, then they chopblock it and/or do all sorts of other disgusting stuff too. If I go down the line it's gonna be a softer shot (not to mention more mistake prone) and they will counter it hard back which gets me in trouble.

 

[dingyibvs]

I kinda dig your method. I had a lot of success when I simply started blasting big BHs to their wide FH lol. But it's very hard to do that when they're going to my wide BH, and if I drop the quality I'm too afraid of their FH attack.

Yea, a slower, higher loop to their FH is just asking to be smacked back at you with little spin for you to borrow. Low and/or fast are the best way to deal with them. Easier said than done, of course, but they're just not that affected by spin. If you spin it needs to be low so they can't flat hit, but of course you see their counters with chopblocks.

I prefer to test their reaction time with speed. If they block it back and you can't reloop easily, then you can try a softer no spin shot. It's almost like a block, so relatively easy to execute, and it's a big change of pace for them so increases their error as well. When I face them I usually try to open up with a FH loop drive to the corners, then if they block it back to my FH I reloop to a different corner. If they block it back to my weaker BH side I give a low spin shot and they often block it into thr net. If they don't allow me to open with my FH, I try to use low spin or low trajectory soft BH shots until I get something I can drive with my FH.

I don't have the BH skills to play aggressively with that side against them, but if you can, I imagine it can work similarly to my FH based strategy.

 

[blahness]

Maybe try turning tables on them and turn THEM into inconsistent attacker. Find their middle... push to middle then wide FH and dare them to step away, block to open area of table.

Get them out of their strong play cycle any way you can... tempt THEM to take the risk if you can.

Yep this works against them and it's one of my fav point winning patterns except I tend to use more sideswipes - I give them sidespin curving away at a very wide angle and then sidespin counter it the other corner with the opposite sidespin. But it's not always possible in game play for eg if they serve/receive fast long to my wide BH this pattern is not possible to execute.