Kou Lei vs Ayano

[Michael Zhuang]

Saw this match posted. I think Kou Lei won 3-1. I'm surprised that the #1 ranked player in the country, a Olympian, would lose games to a 2200 youtube player.

 

[NextLevel]

Saw this match posted. I think Kou Lei won 3-1. I'm surprised that the #1 ranked player in the country, a Olympian, would lose games to a 2200 youtube player.

Maybe she bribed him to get the points? Give me a break.

 

[NextLevel]

BTW, 2200 seems like an underestimate, but usually, these top players don't want to play unless you make them play.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

BTW, 2200 seems like an underestimate, but usually, these top players don't want to play unless you make them play.

Well Ayano lost to our own Victor, so she is not invincible. This guy is supposedly #1 in America, a Olympic player, a male, has 600 USATT points over his opponent, and he is losing games to a recreational player.

I can't imagine any YMCA basketball players winning games against Pro basketball players.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

Looks like he was taking it easy. He might have been playing softer at the beginning in order to try and find easy ways to score instead of expending energy on playing a brute-force game

 

[Richie]

I really don't think it means what you think it means.

I didn't watch the match, but it's possible he's not playing with 100% focus because he knows he can pull out what he needs to win when he wants to. Some lack of focus and possibly luck or if their opponent is playing really well, it's not that surprising he'd lose a set. He may also not be used to Ayanos playstyle. 11 points isn't that much. Considering some of these factors, I don't see what there is to be surprised about.

 

[NextLevel]

Well Ayano lost to our own Victor, so she is not invincible. This guy is supposedly #1 in America, a Olympic player, a male, has 600 USATT points over his opponent, and he is losing games to a recreational player.

I can't imagine any YMCA basketball players winning games against Pro basketball players.

I have something to show you...

https://www.essentiallysports.com/n...in-a-pick-up-game-by-a-mutual-fund-executive/

 

[NextLevel]

Looks like he was taking it easy. He might have been playing softer at the beginning in order to try and find easy ways to score instead of expending energy on playing a brute-force game

I have played tons of handicap matches with stronger players (2500+) with an 7-8 point handicap. I have often won the first game. Then suddenly, it becomes impossibly difficult to score any points and I am just hoping I get luck.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

From my personal experience, a lower skilled player ( intermediate level and above ) can get one set from a higher skilled player quite regularly especially if they are meeting irregularly or not familiar with each other play style.

Heck it is very often that I can get the first four to six points easily from a higher level players. The real stuff usually start to appear in the 2nd set onwards. The higher level player will start to attack your weaker side or give you return that you feel uncomfortable with. Example: If one is a looper, the higher level will start to give drop shot or soft near the net return. Also I'd realised the higher levels tend to have more variety in their playbook whereas lower skilled player has maybe one or two main weapons that the higher level can neutralise more easily as the game progress.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

I have played tons of handicap matches with stronger players (2500+) with an 7-8 point handicap. I have often won the first game. Then suddenly, it becomes impossibly difficult to score any points and I am just hoping I get luck.

The better the player, the faster they adjust. The really good ones see something once or twice, and basically instantly know how to either bait it out to punish it, or to apply pressure in order to force you to either make a mistake or avoid it as an option

 

[Lycanthrope]

The point at 11:30 shows how Kou Lei was having fun.

Ayano is not a recreational player. She makes her income through new media on the topic of travel and table tennis, she is also doing some table tennis coaching works. She should be classed as a role between pro and amateur, like Adam Bobrow.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

The point at 11:30 shows how Kou Lei was having fun.

Ayano is not a recreational player. She makes her income through new media on the topic of travel and table tennis, she is also doing some table tennis coaching works. She should be classed as a role between pro and amateur, like Adam Bobrow.

Sure, I don't know what to call her. But the point is, she is not the top player in her city, or her club, or even her own team.

Kou Lei is supposedly the top player in a country of 350 million people.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Sure, I don't know what to call her. But the point is, she is not the top player in her city, or her club, or even her own team.

Kou Lei is supposedly the top player in a country of 350 million people.

I'm happy for Ayano for the fun and success she has while in the United States. I fully support what she's done with her Youtube channel. But let's not pretend a game which she won with 4 nets and an edge means anything. The difference in level is obvious even in that 1st game. Looks like she had a great time at the LA Open including 1st place in U4200 doubles (awesome!), but let's just leave it at that.

 

[chimyshark]

There're a lot of reasons why he lost the first game. Gozo mentioned unfamiliarity with playstyle so she won the first game for one. But ultimately, as Scarfed Garchomp was saying, he was joking around and saving energy. Our humble club of a few 1400-1800s in my city was recently blessed by a professional player from India (USATT 2400-2500) for two years and has given me a lot of insight into how top players behave. He has a lot of habits that us lowly 1500s don't do.

1. he doesn't play at all the day before - preferring to rest
2. he doesn't take any games seriously until they are at least 2000 level - preferring to save his energy

As a consequence, he often drops 1 or 2 games against 1800-2000 players. As his teammate, this always racks my nerves and I get so worried for him. But the games that he wins are always 11-4 or 11-5. So basically, he'll try to win with no effort, and if he doesn't, then he'll put the effort into the 3 games he wins with dominating scores. As soon as he faces a 2200+, he gets serious immediately. Saving energy is a huge priority for him, and I believe this is the case for all the top players. To top players >2300, fitness and energy levels become huge factors in the match, whereas lower level players, the highest priority is table tennis techniques training. That's why lower level players in the 1500-1800s are crowding the clubs the night before trying to get "last minute studying" done (since we're concerned about being able to do the technique consistently at all), but my teammate prefers to rest because he already has the consistency, and is more concerned about whether he can perform in the match. Prioritizing rest must be a sign of a really high-level player, like Kou Lei, who is saving his energy to perform in the finals and doesn't care about earlier matches.

I think we should be careful when we assume the higher-rated player will win just because he's better. The thing is, to become higher-rated, that player still needed to perform in the match to win the points, and doing so requires effort. Just because the loops and powerful serves always land on the table [making it look easy] doesn't mean that it actually was easy; each shot took a tremendous amount of effort physically and mentally. So I think it's not surprising, that without effort, Kou Lei lost a game. Kou Lei remembers that his goal is to win the match, NOT every game. Losing the first game to feel Ayano's weaknesses out allows him to easily win the match (alternative would be to spend more effort winning 3-0 outright).

I think it's useful and safe to assume that the USATT rating points works like this:
1. A player 238 points higher will always win the match if they put in full effort. A difference in 238 points is more about winning matches rather than stronger skills.
2. A player 238*2 points higher will always win the match without effort (and as we see, Kou Lei defeated Ayano with little effort). By the time the difference in points gets to 238*2, we can assume there's a skill gap.
3. A player 238*3 points higher will always win the match 3-0. At this level of difference, there is a confirmed skill gap.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

https://youtu.be/YqmKp_yaeos

Kou Lei also lost to this Majin Boo player in the finals. Don't know how good this guy is supposed to be, but Kou Lei is an actual professional player right?

 

[Dominikk85]

Why are you so obsessed with him?

You can look up his international results and see that he has beaten a lot of top 100 players in his career.

You don't know how serious he still is about table tennis as he is in his mid 30s.

Maybe he is just training a couple hours a week. Or he had some injuries that slow him down.

His world ranking did drop quite a bit the last 2 years so maybe he is just past his prime.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

https://youtu.be/YqmKp_yaeos

Kou Lei also lost to this Majin Boo player in the finals. Don't know how good this guy is supposed to be, but Kou Lei is an actual professional player right?

Majin Boo, aka Ma Jinbao, was 2770 at that tournament and is currently 2798. He also beat Zhou Xin at that tournament, one of the top players in the USA. So all of these guys are top 5 in the USA.

Kou Lei just beat Ma Jinbao 4-2 at the US Open yesterday in the semi-finals and beat Zhou Xin 4-0 in the finals.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

In the off chance that the OP might gain an appreciation for Kou Lei's level, I found it interesting that Ayano just posted her video of her match with Kou Lei, and in the video description she said: "The one thing I can say is his I had no idea how to return his service....lol"

And Ayano's level is around USATT 2300.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

In the off chance that the OP might gain an appreciation for Kou Lei's level, I found it interesting that Ayano just posted her video of her match with Kou Lei, and in the video description she said: "The one thing I can say is his I had no idea how to return his service....lol"

And Ayano's level is around USATT 2300.

That's interesting, when I watch Ayano play, I actually feel that the best aspect of her play is how consistently she returns serve. But sure, I get that there is a huge difference between 2300 and 2800.

Just having a look at the USATT rankings, I see the highest ranked US-trained players are Kanak and Lupulesku.

Kou Lei, Ma Jinbao, Xin Zhou are all ranked very high, and funnily all from the bay area. Are all of them professionally trained from China? as in former national team or provincial team players?

 

[LDM7]

The better the player, the faster they adjust. The really good ones see something once or twice, and basically instantly know how to either bait it out to punish it, or to apply pressure in order to force you to either make a mistake or avoid it as an option

that's interesting & true SG

in 2023 i am making it a habit figuring out what the other's weakness are and play to it