Life, Existence, and the Meaning of Long Pips - The Opus Maximus of James Z

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No. It could directly & equally can also directly influence other blade parameters such as spin , controld etc as well.


Yes when a junior starts to play they should start with a symmetric blade but this could evolve & devolve at different rates for different players & they would be better off with asymmetric designs even if they still are only two winged loopers. The layer compositions can be different on forehand & backhand
But when an old player who comes into the sport late they are probably better off starting with either short pips or inverted on strong side (usually forehand) and high aspect ratio super long pips on weakside. If this older player vcannot loop at all due to age or physical limitations, they are probably better off using short pips on strong side & high aspect ratio super long pips on weakside


i am not talking about one specific individual. Even there we really don't need lots & lots of data as you seem to project.
I am speaking in general terms for entire playing population, especially amateurs most of whom make the flawed assumption that they could be two winged loopers just like their favorite player if they just practice, practice practice using the same racket used by their idol
That's my point. You speak in general terms but have conducted no serious experiments not collected any data. Yet you write with rude certitude rather than make polite proposals based on your conjectures.
 
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But you can never have an OX top-sheet with pimples in rubber because it is illegal; you can only have an OX top-sheet with pimples out rubber. This means that in the case of ITTF approval of pimples in rubber, the approval is given to the top-sheet and sponge combined, whereas with pimples out rubber it is given only to the top-sheet. This means that it is legal to change sponges on pimples out rubbers without further approval, but to do that with pimples in rubber it needs to be resubmitted to ITTF for approval.
I was curious so I actually checked it out with the ITTF. They said that they can't check the sponge, so you can actually add any sponge you like to a top sheet as long as the thickness of the rubber top sheet is max 2,05mm and the combined thickness of the sponge and top sheet is max 4.05mm.
 
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Go back & read my questions about % of players & their strengths.
That is objective compelling evidence.
No further separate experimental testing is needed in this situation and your going back to it again & again is just plain absurd.
Any such experimental testing in this case would be equally absurd because the test sample would be too small comapred to the entire population of players I am talking about. This just is not a statitical test issue in the way your are talking about because of your limited thinking bout the overall issue at hand.
I also explained each player is different & may need a different layer composition. But you just confuse this with my talking about teh entire population in general terms.
Whatever.
Let's take the traditional view of the world for a second based on free market economics - if your argument is right, there is a huge market out there for asymmetric blades waiting your brilliant exploitation. Go ahead and exploit it, since all the dumb manufacturers are not exploiting it.
 
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Out of curiosity, is there a blade with Viscaria like speed on the BH and inner carbon like spin and behaviour on the FH?

I would actually be quite interested to try out something like that.
People do occasionally try things like that and while there is a point to it, it is important to remember that the blade itself vibrates at one frequency. So what asymmetry can affect has its limits.
 
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Out of curiosity, is there a blade with Viscaria like speed on the BH and inner carbon like spin and behaviour on the FH?

I would actually be quite interested to try out something like that.
Reminds me of a custom blade used by Kong Linghui:

IMG_4885.jpeg

KLHS (hinoki/alc) on bh and P500 (koto/spruce) on fh.

I think it'd be worth it to try a custom blade made with limba/limba/alc fh and koto/alc/ayous bh. I'm sure SDC has made at least a few given his popularity
 
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No I already explained why the blades are all symmetric in my first post. You obviously conveniently ignored it.
Also, the manufacturers are not dumb . They know mostly vanity sells nlades not much of real functionality.
Take for example low aspect ratio low length low PDD long pips soical rubbers on ITTF LARC. They all know it is functionally worthless in the 40+ plastic ball ONLY era. They could easily sell functionally superior high aspect ratio super long pips. But they don't . Why ? Because they worry more about the wrath of the ITTF rather than providing a real value to pips & anti players. This may not be an exactly parallel analogy but you should get the picture if you are open minded.
There defintely is a market for asymmetric blades . Maybe not huge. That is all I was attempting to say .
But if you want to twist it and make it sound like I claim that almost all blades must be asymmetric, just to trash me, you go right ahead.
BTW thanks for the bump. Please don't forget to respond again & again & again to help my causes
People have been selling asymmetric blades for a long time. But your original post makes it sound like most people are not buying asymmetric blades for reasons that you have not presented a strong factual basis for, including people who just want to copy what good players do and nefarious manufacturers. It is all conjecture, I know many people who have bought asymmetric blades for example and who have gone back to using traditional blades. In fact, I own an asymmetric blade (Nexy Arche), though the assymetry of that blade was nothing spectacular. Like I said, you just wrote a lot of stuff that played on the understanding of general TT wisdom, but which when analyzed in the face of data and economic wisdom, turns out to be much less empirically grounded than you can strongly defend.

You know what you wrote, you were trying to choose your arguments and choose your implications by pretending that your claims were not trying to impute nefarious motives or use assumptions that were questionable once brought into focus.

BTW, I am happy to give you points by posting stuff you respond to, I get citizenship points for your responses to me as well. Helping your causes by pointing out how questionable the assumptions are is the kind of help I render gladly.
 
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No.
My simple questions to you again are as follows (Hoping you will keep responding againa & again & exposing your illogical stand on this)
Why % of humans have equally strong forehand & backhand in tabletennis or any racket sport.
What % of players are capable of being two winger loopers in tabletennis ?
What % of players have (or should have) same style forehand & backhand ?
You should be able to answer all those questions with quantitative data to make your point and show why they are relevant. My point is any answer to them doesnr support your argument without assumptions that you have refused to be explicit about and when you are explicit about then, they show your argument is much weaker than the certitude with which you proclaim it.

1. A weaker side can be helped as much as hindered by racket/blade symmetry and racket asymmetry.
2. Any style can be helped as much as hindered by blade symmetry or asymmetry.
3. Any style a player can or should have can be helped or hindered by blade symmetry or blade asymmetry.

The fact that the above are demonstrably true in at least some circumstances show that your argument needs empirical evidence (which is completely lacking) to be taken seriously as an illustration or a problem that has a significant impact. If it don't get measured, it don't get fixed.
 
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The sport is complicated enough, in case it isnt obvious, that there are many solutions to issues, sometimes in blades, sometimes in rubbers, sometimes in practice and training and sometimes no significant solution at all. That's why we need evidence - to distinguish between reality and imagination. I can imagine playing like a top player with an asymmetric or symmetric blade. I can even imagine myself chopping my way to a world championship with pimples on both sides in 2025. These things are not physically impossible. But they are highly implausible. And they are on the same level of most of your arguments. Arguing repeatedly from your imagination and plausibility.
 
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Out of curiosity, is there a blade with Viscaria like speed on the BH and inner carbon like spin and behaviour on the FH?

I would actually be quite interested to try out something like that.
check out Xiom Ice Cream AZX on TT11. I think some people say the carbons are a bit slower than Butterfly carbons but it is at least a shot at that.

Gambler also offers a blade with carbon on one side and pure wood on the other side. I have one blade. I have not tried it out yet. It is just sitting there. carbon side I plan to put H3 neo. wood side I plan to put Tenergy or Dignic on that side.
 
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Not worth the effort to get an asymmetric blade if you can achieve the same effect with putting different rubbers on different sides, for amateur players at least.
That's why I put Hurricane on the forehand side and ESN rubber on the backhand side. Every single blade right now is in that combo.
 
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Let us assume all this garbage is true.
The you still do admit that some (if not all) players with weaker side can be helped with an asymmetric blade ?
I

When & where did I also say that every single player should use an asymmetric blade ?

So you do not agree that
1. more humans than not have a stronger forehand than backhand ?
2. More TT amateur players than not have a different playing style than two winged looping ?

I won't be surprised at all ifyou want to keep up this nonsense & continue to make fool of yourselves.
Please don't stop responding
All I have repeatedly said is that you need to quantify your claims - they are plausible, like many things are plausible when they are not quantified. Of course you aren't stupid enough to claim that everyone should an asymmetric blade. But you are also being facetious when you argue in the absence of empirical data that there is a market for them that players are ignoring just to imitate their favorite players. Quantify your claims a little, do the work to collect the data.

One can have a stronger forehand than backhand and that implies what?
More TT players have a different style from two winged looping and that implies what?

Both are as consistent with the need for more symmetric or asymmetric equipment especially in the face of the litany of rubber choices that already exist. So speak about the data. Not these generalizations that you can come up with in your couch while daydreaming about what you think the world should look like. It's like idealism on steroids.
 
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You are refusing to admit the fact the simple fact that more humans have stronger forehands than backhands in racket sport.
You are refusing to admit the fact that more TT players than not , especially amateurs have different backhand & forehand styles unlike most pro players who are two winged loopers.
We can go round & round & play this game till cows come home
You have admitted that at least some players (I do not know the exct precise %because you keep demaning this useless quantification nonsense which does not apply at all to this analysis but you will keep insisting it does) can benefit with asymmetric blades.
Unless you want to claim that no player should consider using asymetric blades, there is no point in continuing but I am sure you will insist on making a fool of yourself again. Enjoy. Come again
I have admitted that many players swing with stronger forehands than backhands in racket sport. What that means for racket sport depends on many things about the racket sport. What does that mean for symmetry or asymmetry? Just about any conclusion can follow from this. Should the backhand side be faster to compensate for less power, or should it be slower to enable more touch and control? Or should the person just train whatever side more? Or get slower rubber? The options are infinite - asymmetric blades are just one option, and not one without drawbacks like any other option.
 
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Let us assume your garbage claims of demanding practical test data is needed to validate my claim.
What exactly are you trying to say ?
No player in the world should asymmetric blades until I make some analysis of a test sample ?
How big should this test sample be ?
It is like saying that shoe manufacturers should make the left shoe slightly bigger than the right shoe if someone has slightly different sized feet, like most human beings actually do. In practice, the problem is small enough to ignore and most people compensate by just finding a size both feet can wear and then either using more comfortable socks etc. Hopefully, the analogy helps, though like all analogies, it is easy to interpret them with stupidity.


My point is that in light of all the things one can do to adjust to technical asymmetry, a stronger case than you have made is required to take your proposed argument on the significance of blade asymmetry seriously as you claim it is a result of things that most people don't care about beyond your conspiracy theories.
 
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Ok I am imagining things.
Does that conclusively prove that no player in the world should use asymmetric blades, just because I am imagining things ?
Since the post references asymmetric blades as one option amongst many, I am not sure why you think it tries to prove what it clearly contradicts.
 
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Thanks for admitting

And I don't ever remember saying that it should be teh ONLY option for 100% of players
Of course you never did, you argued from a property that is likely universal to a conclusion that is empirically dubious. I sometimes have a better backhand than forehand on one day and then a better forehand than backhand the next day. Should I get asymmetric blades for each circumstance or turn my blade over to suit my mood? Or should I twiddle to the side I just feel like using when I can?
 
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Let us assume your garbage claims of demanding practical test data is needed to validate my claim.
What exactly are you trying to say ?
No player in the world should asymmetric blades until I make some analysis of a test sample ?
How big should this test sample be ?
No, I am saying that problems need to be quantified to understand their relative impact/seriousness. If there is a significant market for asymmetric blades, major manufacturers will get into making them. The market is largely covered by custom blade makers and given the ability to customize rubber choices and the fact that most players have to fairly advanced to be able to know when they can take advantage of asymmetric blades (and this would imply a relatively small market relative to the overall TT market), the problem you are describing, if it exists, is likely a small problem.
 
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Thanks for admitting most not all humans use same size shoes.,

s Yes this is indeed an incredibly stupid analogy. I did not say that . You did


So if a player only flat hits on forehand but only loops on backhand, (s)he should use a symmetric blade & adjust no matter what, even if an asymmetric blade with a stiffer forehand and softer backhand is available ?

So if a player only loops on the forehand but only chops on the backhand, (s)he should use a symmetric blade with composite outer layers (next to outer most of course) and not an asymmetric blade with a looping type forehand composition (with composite outer layer layer next to outermost layer) & a non composite high vibration backhand side with no composite layer, if available ?

Ok Thanks for your enlightenment
Rubber/sponge combinations create sufficient asymmetry for most players and that is the standard. In the case that a more custom solution is required, that can be sought from a specific blade maker. But given the sensitivity of equipment to training and the fact that all equipment has tradeoffs, an asymmetric blade would be an advanced and rare solution to a specific problem, not a default solution that has no drawbacks. One would have to know and commit to a style to find that such a blade is required beyond what is traditional.
 
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It is also pretty interesting tha you are the moderator of another tabletennis forum but you come to this forum and start flame wars with posters like myself , brokenball etc , posters that MyTT banned.
Gee I wonder why.
Well, Carl has decided not to ban you, so you are a tool for amusement.
 
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Thanks for going in circles again.
I explained 5 posts ago as to why major manufacturermake only make symmetric baldes.
Go back and check

Also you absolutely refuse to answer my question.
Are you saying that no player should use aysmmetric blades ?
Claims are not explanations. And again, when I have said repeatedly that asymmetric blades are one solution for a small niche of players, and that your claims are empirically dubious, it shows an inability to comprehend the rules of logical implication when you continue to argue that just because one person could benefit from an asymmetric blade, that major manufacturers should make more, since you are not even willing to discuss the limitations of such blades in developing various playing styles, including the one you like to advocate.
 
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Not as amusing & bizarre as your wild claims that more manufacturers should not be making asymmetric blades.
I didn't say that, I said that in the absence of empirical evidence, they might be making an appropriate amount. How many more asymmetric blades should they be making? I have said that the market is not that large, you have claimed it is larger than zero %, which I agree with, but how much larger than zero, you have given arguments completely compatible with the preferred use of symmetric blades. You have very little if any hard evidence that asymmetric blades are a required solution in the face of all the other potential solutions.
 
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