Losing pretty instead of winning ugly

[Dominikk85]

Would this be a good mindset to improve? There is a famous tennis book by Brad Gilbert called winning ugly which is about some strategies to mentally and tactically beat a slightly better opponent.

I wonder if the opposite mindset would be good for a player who is trying to advance. Instead of playing "dirty" and trying to tactically steal points try to lose "pretty", I.e tell yourself it is OK to lose but while doing it try to hit as many "correct" and pretty shots as possible.

So for example instead of getting into a pushing match and waiting for a mistake have the goal to loop every long serve and push by the opponent, even if it means you lose more points than you win with that strategy initially.

Basically trying to detach yourself from the match outcome for some time and just try to play pretty even if it means you lose initially until you get better at the stuff.

 

[Lazer]

I simply don't care much.

I get mad if I play bad regardless if I win or loose. The training is so structured and are rarely touching areas where I want to get better. Therefore I use matches for this purpose instead. My partners just want to play matches so even on trainer less sessions I rarely get a chance.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[d3nium]

In my book, it's never ok to lose, you do whatever you have to do to get the W

 

[jammmail]

Would this be a good mindset to improve? There is a famous tennis book by Brad Gilbert called winning ugly which is about some strategies to mentally and tactically beat a slightly better opponent.

I wonder if the opposite mindset would be good for a player who is trying to advance. Instead of playing "dirty" and trying to tactically steal points try to lose "pretty", I.e tell yourself it is OK to lose but while doing it try to hit as many "correct" and pretty shots as possible.

So for example instead of getting into a pushing match and waiting for a mistake have the goal to loop every long serve and push by the opponent, even if it means you lose more points than you win with that strategy initially.

Basically trying to detach yourself from the match outcome for some time and just try to play pretty even if it means you lose initially until you get better at the stuff.

If your working on an element like being more attacking like and looping long serves/pushes then there will be a period where you wont win so much and have to take the hit to improve your game. I dont think this is winning pretty - just adjustment time to learning on being positive and attacking. But does require as you say to try and detach yourself from the match outcome - its something im working on as i hate getting stuck in push to push rallies.
There are people that have a win at all cost mentality - serving quick and illegally, or time wasting or even rubbing sweat on the ball. That is different and against those type of players its about doing whatever it take to beat them as you dont want to give them the satisfaction.

 

[jk1980]

If you want to become a better player it is definitely important to play properly instead of using cheap shortcuts to win.
Of course if you are not yet able to flip/flick short serves, it is ok to push them (if the got backspin).
I would focuss on one part of my game that i deliberately improve until it is so ingrained, so that it comes intuitive.

This lead to a gradual improvement of things i would do successfully and intuitively in the game.

I proceed to the next stage only after the current stage's skills are intuitive to me.

For me the stages was:
1) push everything that is short and long
2) push everything that is short and loop long balls with forehand
3) push everything that is short and loop long balls with forehand plus loop long underspin balls as well
3) push everything that is short and loop long balls with forehand plus loop long underspin balls with forehand and backhand as well
4) (same as above) + flip short serves that do not have massive underspin
if you stick to stupid pushing battles you will never become a decent player.
Of course it might be a shortcut if the only thing you want to do is beat one low level player you can try cheap tactics.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

it all depends. If in a real match ( with referee and you have paid an participation fee of sort ) then I must do whatever it takes to win; ugly or pretty.

If in club training session, when I want to work on some issues then I don't mind losing some points.

For example; when I want to learn how to lift backspin ball, I will do it even when pushing is safer.

 

[Lazer]

In my book, it's never ok to lose, you do whatever you have to do to get the W

You got that wrong my friend, the important part is to have fun...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[JJ Ng]

Would this be a good mindset to improve? There is a famous tennis book by Brad Gilbert called winning ugly which is about some strategies to mentally and tactically beat a slightly better opponent.

I wonder if the opposite mindset would be good for a player who is trying to advance. Instead of playing "dirty" and trying to tactically steal points try to lose "pretty", I.e tell yourself it is OK to lose but while doing it try to hit as many "correct" and pretty shots as possible.

So for example instead of getting into a pushing match and waiting for a mistake have the goal to loop every long serve and push by the opponent, even if it means you lose more points than you win with that strategy initially.

Basically trying to detach yourself from the match outcome for some time and just try to play pretty even if it means you lose initially until you get better at the stuff.

I have said it before: if you want to improve, you have to lose a few matches.

However, I agree with @jk1980 that you should work on one thing at a time. Just looping everything is not going to help and is not going to look pretty either.

For example, for me, I need to work on my backhand loop. But if the ball is short, I am still going to push it. Looping (or flipping) short spinny balls is not going to help me much if I keep on dumping the ball into the net all the time. Waiting for the right ball, at the right timing, to practice backhand loop only is a good idea. I am not going to cover 80% of the table with my backhand either just to practice backhand loop. So that really means in a match, there might be only 6-7 balls where I really get to practice.

I also agree with @Lazer that the goal is to have fun and not to win everything. Furthermore, I would argue that if you want to win every single match that badly, you will end up being too tight. And that's one major reason why some players play well in club matches but when tournament time comes, they play below their level. Somehow you have to strike a balance between wanting to win and willing to let things go.

 

[Speed]

Would this be a good mindset to improve? There is a famous tennis book by Brad Gilbert called winning ugly which is about some strategies to mentally and tactically beat a slightly better opponent.

I wonder if the opposite mindset would be good for a player who is trying to advance. Instead of playing "dirty" and trying to tactically steal points try to lose "pretty", I.e tell yourself it is OK to lose but while doing it try to hit as many "correct" and pretty shots as possible.

So for example instead of getting into a pushing match and waiting for a mistake have the goal to loop every long serve and push by the opponent, even if it means you lose more points than you win with that strategy initially.

Basically trying to detach yourself from the match outcome for some time and just try to play pretty even if it means you lose initially until you get better at the stuff

I think better is to lose pretty instead to win ugly. Because playing ugly isn't gonna improve your game, maybe you will win but that is not the point. Playing pretty you will become better and the results are gonna come. Just enjoy game sometimes you win sometimes not...

 

[d3nium]

You got that wrong my friend, the important part is to have fun...

Cheers
L-zr

Have fun yes, but winning is better than losing.

 

[scrubplayer]

Assuming is a serious match, Win ugly 100% of the time.

 

[lodro]

When playing singles I do not care at all W or L. I try to do good shots and
concentrate on what the opposition is doing. I never play ugly, it takes the fun away but when I play doubles I owe it to my partners to do the best i can so it gets a bit more tense but still never ugly.
Actually, how exactly does one play ugly ???

 

[JJ Ng]

Have fun yes, but winning is better than losing.

Lol, it is always the best to win and have fun at the same time.

I would love that every single time. However sometimes we do need to make certain choices.

 

[JJ Ng]

When playing singles I do not care at all W or L. I try to do good shots and
concentrate on what the opposition is doing. I never play ugly, it takes the fun away but when I play doubles I owe it to my partners to do the best i can so it gets a bit more tense but still never ugly.
Actually, how exactly does one play ugly ???

I am the opposite. When I play double, I am more loose because, well, I am usually the stronger player so it is usually my partner who loses the point. So when we lose points, it is usually my partner's issues. But it also depends on if I am in a zone or not. When I am in the zone, my forehand loop opens up, then less pressure on my partner and I. When I am not in the zone, it is just a tough match for my partner and I.

By contrast in singles, I want to win. I have a lot of pressure especially playing players lower rated than me. I usually do not play singles at the club anymore. I usually just propose serve and return practices and either party can open up. People like doing that as well and I get to enjoy the game and work on my deficits. I have not played in tournaments in over 16 years.

 

[NextLevel]

Would this be a good mindset to improve? There is a famous tennis book by Brad Gilbert called winning ugly which is about some strategies to mentally and tactically beat a slightly better opponent.

I wonder if the opposite mindset would be good for a player who is trying to advance. Instead of playing "dirty" and trying to tactically steal points try to lose "pretty", I.e tell yourself it is OK to lose but while doing it try to hit as many "correct" and pretty shots as possible.

So for example instead of getting into a pushing match and waiting for a mistake have the goal to loop every long serve and push by the opponent, even if it means you lose more points than you win with that strategy initially.

Basically trying to detach yourself from the match outcome for some time and just try to play pretty even if it means you lose initially until you get better at the stuff.

I have tried this approach. The truth is that winning pretty isnt really about being pretty as much as it is about doing the things necessary to beat better players at the level you aspire to play. If you compete in tournaments with a coach guiding tour play and development, this becomes very obvious - you will struggle to beat USATT 1500 players only pushing unless you have a strong blocking game, for example. So you may need to learn to loop backspin to compete better at that level. And in competition, one has to play the point well to win, and this can vary depending on the opponent at the lower levels for sure given out limited skillsets. At the higher levels, the principles tend to work better and they do at the lower levels, but the consistency and skill to use every shot makes many principles almost meaningless in the context of your own game.

 

[lodro]

Well, c'mon, someone tell me how to play ugly. 😂

 

[blahness]

If you want to become a better player it is definitely important to play properly instead of using cheap shortcuts to win.
Of course if you are not yet able to flip/flick short serves, it is ok to push them (if the got backspin).
I would focuss on one part of my game that i deliberately improve until it is so ingrained, so that it comes intuitive.

This lead to a gradual improvement of things i would do successfully and intuitively in the game.

I proceed to the next stage only after the current stage's skills are intuitive to me.

For me the stages was:
1) push everything that is short and long
2) push everything that is short and loop long balls with forehand
3) push everything that is short and loop long balls with forehand plus loop long underspin balls as well
3) push everything that is short and loop long balls with forehand plus loop long underspin balls with forehand and backhand as well
4) (same as above) + flip short serves that do not have massive underspin
if you stick to stupid pushing battles you will never become a decent player.
Of course it might be a shortcut if the only thing you want to do is beat one low level player you can try cheap tactics.

This is the way.

 

[blahness]

For me I always focus on my own technical progression (jk1980 has an excellent idea about the progression), winning or losing is part of the game, and if I progress enough the players I lost to would slowly be out of my range anyway.

It's not like it's a World Championship match ffs....

 

[Ghostzen]

For training and practice matches definitely 1000% progress, work on techniques, strokes and tactics. Then slowly bring them into the game. It's a bit by bit introduction of these things into serious match play. It can take months and some to adopt a new skill, stroke, transition etc into high pressure serious matches which count and know it won't buckle as its trained to a solid level.

If I have to play a certain way tactically or use a certain tweeked style within reason to beat player A who's X places in the rankings higher to get the points for my team or promotion... Yes I would definitely. My team is important and my results matter in serious competition.

If someone is stronger in loop to loop or a wall type defender in a serious match. I must be tactically aware of their strengths and my own. It's a bit of an art form to find these holes and tactics. Keep them off balance so I can play my best strokes/game.

If it's fun and it doesn't matter. Play free and enjoy. Get your chopping bat out even.. It might be fun.... 😊...

The progression of TT training never stops really... That's the fun and frustration of it.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Well, c'mon, someone tell me how to play ugly. 😂

Long pips / anti one side; short pips on the other.