Modern rubbers are killing the rotation in the topspin play

[Yurifi]

this week, during one of the practice sessions, as I was teaching how to impart good rotation on forehand topspin, I realised, why all the kids and youger players know how to hit the ball hard but lack rotation, and also, why everyone is saying - "with the plastic ball, there isn't so much rotation on the ball anymore ..." yes, because of modern tensor rubbers.

when I was a kid learning how to play good topspin, we had a choice - Butterfly Sriver and Tibhar Rapid. as we got better some more options opened, me, being top 5 kids in the country had the privilege to use Yasaka Mark V. you had to work hard with those rubbers. you had to do everything, that's how we learned how to create rotation. especially me, I had a great feeling for rotation, for placing the ball on the table with rotation than with power.

fast forward 20 years ...

I started playing table tennis after 20 years of hiatus. first thing my father, also my coach, told me, was - it's harder now, the plastic ball is tougher to create rotation. of course, after warming up, the first thing I wanted to do was - topspin. and everyone I played with was amazed by the level of rotation I was able to put into the ball. as I was playing I got the opportunity to be a sparing partner to younger players (U13, U15 and U17) and was shocked - yes, they all can create a lot of power, but rotation is lacking a bit ... so during preseason practices I kind of delved into topspin and how to teach them about how to put more rotation into the ball. and it is so hard with Tenergy 05 because it is so springy, there is basically no dwell time! ball just flies. some kids are now fitting Dignics09c and it is much less springy and I realised, it is the extreme tensor effect probably behind this saying - "with the plastic ball there is much less rotation ..."

so - I cannot put them back onto "Srivers and Rapids", some of them are not ready yet for the D09c (even though they want it, of course) - so which rubbers to use to teach them how to put proper rotation into their topspin strokes?

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Modern rubbers aren't killing it, they're responding to the ball that killed it. Spin isn't gone from the game, it just can't be the only thing you have in your shots if you want to play at a higher level.

 

[Tyce]

I remember. You used to have to choose between playing flat or playing with spin - and I absolutely loved it.
Serve with heavy spin, opening up, heavy, and when the time was right, flat hit the heck out of it to finish the point.

Nowadays, most attacks (in developed modern players) are power loops. Being able to block a 1st team player's loop was unimaginable back in the day, now it's standard.

I am one of those that just never got on well with tensors. Sure they're fun for flat stuff but it sucks to put heavy rotation on. Especially the faster ones (Tenergy).
What works for me is surprisingly simple: slow rubbers.
This can be tacky (my favourite option since there's zero tensor involved) but just as well the likes of Vega Europe, Rakza 7 soft. I wouldn't even use Rakza 7 regular for this, even though it's a great step up once you get the hang of it.
I'm so positively surprised by Mercury 2 on my BH that I'm keen on keeping it for competition. FH is Hurricane 3, slow as a donkey but so much power to learn to wield.

I also firmly believe that the transition between using tensors on an allwood or mild carbon blade, and sticking Hurricane on that same blade is way too big. It is much easier to use on a Viscaria type blade if your background is like that, simply because you will still have that initial bounce. The fact that it comes from the blade instead of the rubber actually makes it more reliable imo. Feels like a dependable backbone.

More backstory (lol). I have been dabbling with different rubbers and blades for quite a bit and with varying results.
On wood, the best ones for heavy spin have been Fastarc G1 and Rakza 7. I didn't like Hurricane until I was up to Clipper, which has that backbone because it's thick enough for it. (in comparison, Fextra is too weak for Hurricane but kinda worked with Mercury 2).
I have used 37d Hurricane 3 soft on a Korbel which did feel like a better combination than the 39d.
There's a guy in my club who plays very heavy, slow spin balls and does it quite well up to a level I will never be able to reach. He used Vega Europe, those balls were unblockable. Switched to Rakza 7, and it's even harder to block.

Bottom line, if the ball leaves the rubber too quickly, they need to slow down the rubber.

 

[piligrim]

Another nostalgic topic from 70+ old schoolers )))

 

[Yurifi]

Modern rubbers aren't killing it, they're responding to the ball that killed it. Spin isn't gone from the game, it just can't be the only thing you have in your shots if you want to play at a higher level.

will all due respect, it’s gone. I’ve seen plenty of matches where it was power vs. power. but the I saw that power being tamed by rotation and not so much power. twice. once in A. Lebrun vs. Park Gyuhyeon, where Park started playing with more rotation and less power and Lebrun was completely lost. same happened between Ovtcharov and Uda - Ovtcharov took away all power and Uda was completely lost.

many times I see that combining power and rotation is the key. everyone can play with power nowadays, bang-bang all out, but when you start mixing rotation and feel and reduce some power - they are in serious trouble.

 

[Yurifi]

Another nostalgic topic from 70+ old schoolers )))

I am 43. 😉

 

[piligrim]

I am 43. 😉

Sound like 70 ))))

 

[ajtatosmano2]

this week, during one of the practice sessions, as I was teaching how to impart good rotation on forehand topspin, I realised, why all the kids and youger players know how to hit the ball hard but lack rotation, and also, why everyone is saying - "with the plastic ball, there isn't so much rotation on the ball anymore ..." yes, because of modern tensor rubbers.

when I was a kid learning how to play good topspin, we had a choice - Butterfly Sriver and Tibhar Rapid. as we got better some more options opened, me, being top 5 kids in the country had the privilege to use Yasaka Mark V. you had to work hard with those rubbers. you had to do everything, that's how we learned how to create rotation. especially me, I had a great feeling for rotation, for placing the ball on the table with rotation than with power.

fast forward 20 years ...

I started playing table tennis after 20 years of hiatus. first thing my father, also my coach, told me, was - it's harder now, the plastic ball is tougher to create rotation. of course, after warming up, the first thing I wanted to do was - topspin. and everyone I played with was amazed by the level of rotation I was able to put into the ball. as I was playing I got the opportunity to be a sparing partner to younger players (U13, U15 and U17) and was shocked - yes, they all can create a lot of power, but rotation is lacking a bit ... so during preseason practices I kind of delved into topspin and how to teach them about how to put more rotation into the ball. and it is so hard with Tenergy 05 because it is so springy, there is basically no dwell time! ball just flies. some kids are now fitting Dignics09c and it is much less springy and I realised, it is the extreme tensor effect probably behind this saying - "with the plastic ball there is much less rotation ..."

so - I cannot put them back onto "Srivers and Rapids", some of them are not ready yet for the D09c (even though they want it, of course) - so which rubbers to use to teach them how to put proper rotation into their topspin strokes?

Tensors has nothing to do with this. They are spinnier than the old rubbers were, it's just the ball. If you want to teach the kids to play a more spin based game, sure go for it. Tenergy is indeed pretty springy and D09c is expensive. Joining Tyce, I would say Fastarc G1 is a very good choice for serious beginners or some cheaper chinese rubbers. There is a ton of rubber which are suitable, check out the forum.

 

[CroneOne]

I wouldn't say that it's purely rubbers. It seems to me that any slow heavy spin that rises too high over the net can easily be clobbered through now. I think the game has moved towards removal of time from the opponent more than spin. I only played with the old ball for 1-2 years before the new ball but ai remember the old ball fizzing with spin and arc.

 

[jonol]

I don't really see this as being due to rubbers. The amount of spin that modern rubbers can generate is significantly higher than older generations.

The thinking also seems to have shifted a lot, where a lot of players base their game around countering.

If anything, it seems more like a combination of banning speed glue and changes to the ball than the rubbers. The innovations that have led to faster rubbers might have been fast-tracked by those changes, but I imagine there still would have been innovation over time to produce more modern types of rubber regardless.

 

[J-fed]

What works for me is surprisingly simple: slow rubbers.
This can be tacky (my favourite option since there's zero tensor involved) but just as well the likes of Vega Europe, Rakza 7 soft. results.
On wood, the best ones for heavy spin have been Fastarc G1 and Rakza 7.
There's a guy in my club who plays very heavy, slow spin balls and does it quite well up to a level I will never be able to reach. He used Vega Europe, those balls were unblockable. Switched to Rakza 7, and it's even harder to block.
.

Great to hear. Just got me a sheet of the soft and it’s going on a 5 ply.
V much looking forward to it now.
I agree that the young players are getting into loop monster rubbers too early too. Then they choose the max sponge. Youth gonna push the limits.
They seem to miss really long a lot.
Many young players start with Mark V here. It’s better than starting with tensors imo. Still seems hilarious to me who grew up with that rubber being an intimidating step up in technique.
Meh. Maybe I’m just too conservative.
I’m also thinking of putting together one really fast modern bat just to see if I can handle the heat. Some of the high throw loop stuff you can do is fun for sure.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

will all due respect, it’s gone. I’ve seen plenty of matches where it was power vs. power. but the I saw that power being tamed by rotation and not so much power. twice. once in A. Lebrun vs. Park Gyuhyeon, where Park started playing with more rotation and less power and Lebrun was completely lost. same happened between Ovtcharov and Uda - Ovtcharov took away all power and Uda was completely lost.

many times I see that combining power and rotation is the key. everyone can play with power nowadays, bang-bang all out, but when you start mixing rotation and feel and reduce some power - they are in serious trouble.

They may be in trouble for a match or two but when they adapt and can do all the same things but more powerfully they will win - this is how things work and the natural progression in most sports. I'm sure there are still sandpaper enthusiasts going on about how they play the "pure" and "tactical" game or whatever lol.

That's why you see the kids being trained the way they are - they are being trained to raise their ceiling and do what wins most of the time, not just what might bail you out from time to time, and those two things can exist in parallel very much.

 

[NextLevel]

this week, during one of the practice sessions, as I was teaching how to impart good rotation on forehand topspin, I realised, why all the kids and youger players know how to hit the ball hard but lack rotation, and also, why everyone is saying - "with the plastic ball, there isn't so much rotation on the ball anymore ..." yes, because of modern tensor rubbers.

when I was a kid learning how to play good topspin, we had a choice - Butterfly Sriver and Tibhar Rapid. as we got better some more options opened, me, being top 5 kids in the country had the privilege to use Yasaka Mark V. you had to work hard with those rubbers. you had to do everything, that's how we learned how to create rotation. especially me, I had a great feeling for rotation, for placing the ball on the table with rotation than with power.

fast forward 20 years ...

I started playing table tennis after 20 years of hiatus. first thing my father, also my coach, told me, was - it's harder now, the plastic ball is tougher to create rotation. of course, after warming up, the first thing I wanted to do was - topspin. and everyone I played with was amazed by the level of rotation I was able to put into the ball. as I was playing I got the opportunity to be a sparing partner to younger players (U13, U15 and U17) and was shocked - yes, they all can create a lot of power, but rotation is lacking a bit ... so during preseason practices I kind of delved into topspin and how to teach them about how to put more rotation into the ball. and it is so hard with Tenergy 05 because it is so springy, there is basically no dwell time! ball just flies. some kids are now fitting Dignics09c and it is much less springy and I realised, it is the extreme tensor effect probably behind this saying - "with the plastic ball there is much less rotation ..."

so - I cannot put them back onto "Srivers and Rapids", some of them are not ready yet for the D09c (even though they want it, of course) - so which rubbers to use to teach them how to put proper rotation into their topspin strokes?

The older rubbers and Chinese rubbers are still on the market, use them and see whether they solve the problem as you describe it. Even Timo Boll complains about it a little, but unlike you he didn't blame the rubbers, he blamed the current ABS balls, which is far more in line with my experience. Once the balls stopped having cellulose, they just stopped reacting in the exact way we were used to in the spinny days.