No spin loops

[blahness]

Finally someone is talking on the internet about the usefulness of the no spin loop which can be very devastating if you combine it with a heavy topspin loop. But I think PechPong is still not evil enough to try to disguise it with the normal loop by adding a fake wrist and supination/pronation followthrough lol.

 

[Dr Evil]

Good one. Here's an entertaining match with a master of loop spin variation (including no spin and underspin), paralympics champ Tahl Leibovitz.

 

[brokenball]

This is nuts! If the ball has no spin then it is only falling due to gravity. I don't call that a loop. It certainly doesn't come close to what the Chinese call a la qiu or pull ball where the tangential friction of the rubber drags the ball over the net while adding lots of spin.

I often need to hit balls from below the table when my opponent dinks one at an extreme angle. I get it back but at this time I am EXTREMELY disappointed that I don't put enough spin on it. Too many of these don't go back with enough speed to be dangerous. I don't call these returns a loop.

A no spin ball will not jump out low and fast after contact like are real loop should.

The person in the video doesn't have a clue and has no idea what a real loop is.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

no spin loop is indeed very difficult to read.
It lacks spin and power, so the spin is so light, that if you counter, your timing would be easily off and shoot the ball off the table by a big margin.

Need to have a closer angle, or a smaller stroke. But then you risk a counter top spin coming back.

Making use of different levels of spin and power in "ALL STROKES" is an art.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This is nuts! If the ball has no spin then it is only falling due to gravity. I don't call that a loop. It certainly doesn't come close to what the Chinese call a la qiu or pull ball where the tangential friction of the rubber drags the ball over the net while adding lots of spin.

Chinese call it "arc ball", ie you pull an arc and this is what people call loop in English
the arc would normally be top spin, but since people are able to generate no spin and underspin, the arc is still there.

I guess you need to move on to modern day skillset
if you want to be technical, then top spin loop, underspin loop or no spin loop.
It exists and the only issue if "namely rights"

 

[turbozed]

This is nuts! If the ball has no spin then it is only falling due to gravity. I don't call that a loop. It certainly doesn't come close to what the Chinese call a la qiu or pull ball where the tangential friction of the rubber drags the ball over the net while adding lots of spin.

I often need to hit balls from below the table when my opponent dinks one at an extreme angle. I get it back but at this time I am EXTREMELY disappointed that I don't put enough spin on it. Too many of these don't go back with enough speed to be dangerous. I don't call these returns a loop.

A no spin ball will not jump out low and fast after contact like are real loop should.

The person in the video doesn't have a clue and has no idea what a real loop is.

I was watching WTT and the commentator referred to one of A. Lebrun's serves as a "lollipop serve."

I was outraged. Professional commentator didn't have any clue what a real lollipop is.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

its a shot that i learnt to do (often) in the 2 following specific situations:

1) playing a chopper. after I make a powerful drive to his FH, he manages to put it back with a heavy backspin shot on the table on my FH side, often going out on the FH side line.

Looping against heavy backspin is not my forte, and the ball would be a difficult one coming back quick while i'm too close to the table, so what i do is with an open bat, near the bounce i kind of lift the ball lightly, with no spin, and make a drive movement, aiming the symmetric side (cross court, going out on the short FH side of the table)

This is NOT a dropshot, im not trying to keep the ball short, and make it bounce twice on the table.

My partner (coach with chopper style) doesn't like to play this ball at all. If often forces him an error or a weaker ball next when the shot is successful, as he's a bit late to get on it, the ball is too low and lacks spin to play comfortably.

not 100% sure, but I think Timo Boll often do this shot against choppers.

2) against the dropshot from a Long Pips player.

Usually its after a BH drive (or less often a FH from BH side). I'm a little bit late on the ball. If I try to drive it "normally", i make a mistake because i would be playing while moving ie off balance. so i learnt to stay calm and keep good balance, make the effort to be lower, because i'm late on the ball, and need to play it softly , carrying it over the net.

90%+ of the time i try to play a slow ball straight where the player already is. so naturally he plays crosscourt to the BH to move me again. But because the ball i play is slow and he's a LP player anyway, it gives me time to go back to play it.

3) a similar situation to 2 but after a leftie pendulum serve, or BH serve from FH side going out on the short FH side of the table.

I have a much lower success rate on this shot in this situation. I try to even do it "backspin" loop like Simon Gauzy. main problem is im late, too far from the ball and/or not always manage to stay low while moving

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

taking about it
a chopper can chop an underspin shot or no spin shot.
Now they can have an action that will generate top spin shot

 

[igorponger]

Needing for a spinless ball? Just image a clock dial on the ball. Keep up the impact point at 4 o'clock, hit the sphere with an open racket.

Be happy.

 

[blahness]

no spin loop is indeed very difficult to read.
It lacks spin and power, so the spin is so light, that if you counter, your timing would be easily off and shoot the ball off the table by a big margin.

Need to have a closer angle, or a smaller stroke. But then you risk a counter top spin coming back.

Making use of different levels of spin and power in "ALL STROKES" is an art.

Yep, the real nasty ones are the guys who actually train to disguise the followthrough of the no spin loop so that it looks exactly the same as their heavy spin loop. I think Waldner abused this a lot when he was playing against Timo in the 2004 Olympics. Timo was simply blocking most of Waldner's "loops" right to the base of the net, and other times it just flew a metre from the table.

 

[gaveou87]

The person in the video doesn't have a clue and has no idea what a real loop is.

Brokenball, do you even make any basic research before trashing someone ?
I am not saying you have to be very high rated to make good comments or great players don't say dumb things . That is possible .

But Seth Pech is a 2500+ player (His brother Keith was close to 2400 at 2361).
So I would kinda tend to believe Seth Pech .

So you are telling me Seth Pech has no idea what a real loop is ? LOL
BTW I would probably be less humilated by Seth , whose loops don't seem that fast or powerful when I saw him But Keith, totally smoked me two years ago in an unsanctioned tournament. His loops were ridicuolously spinny & fast.
I rarely feel that helpless. I had the same issue with Brian Lonergan who was lower rated than Sean Lonergan but dis better against Sean & even took a game from Sean once when he was 2500+

From I have seen , you always ONLY focus of theoretical aspect of any issue compeletly ignoring the practical table tennis perspective or viewpoint of things.

Ok maybe nospin loop may be a misnomer but may be it is a "fake loop". Chester Barnes in his book called this a "dummy loop". But I agree overall with explanation by Seth Pech & how to execute it.

BTW , Hi Tahl . Long time No see. How is Don Iguana ?

 

[pingpongpaddy]

I think Pech is scraping the barrel here
Thiis shot is just normal spin variation. It's as old as the Loop itself. For all of my time (since the 60's) known I Uk tt as a Dummy Loop. Very useful against choppers . I used to do it quite a lot as my game didn' t allow me to overwhelm defenders. I seem to remember Chester Barnes was a great exponent and also Stipancic of Yugoslavia. There was also a Kent player Ian Kenyon in the 70's who was very deceptive
If we have to give it a new name, I would suggest
Empty Loop
to match
Empty Serves
Empty push

 

[Trevize84]

No-spin or low-spin loop is also useful against long pips to get back a no-spin ball that you can properly loop with ease.

 

[igorponger]

THE GUILLOTINE SHOT.

This nifty shot keeps growing in popularity with the top guns worldwide. It remains untitled yet. To me, it looks much like dropping cutter of the guillotine. Utterly worthy shot for whoever to adopt.

Jarvis Junior doing this trick in real play at WTT Manchester 2024. Viewy shot indeed.

 

[brokenball]

No-spin or low-spin loop is also useful against long pips to get back a no-spin ball that you can properly loop with ease.

Good tactic but poor naming. It is not a loop. Arc ball sounds better.
I don't see what makes hitting these no spin balls back with inverted so difficult You should be able to see the label on a no or low spin ball

 

[blahness]

its a shot that i learnt to do (often) in the 2 following specific situations:

1) playing a chopper. after I make a powerful drive to his FH, he manages to put it back with a heavy backspin shot on the table on my FH side, often going out on the FH side line.

Looping against heavy backspin is not my forte, and the ball would be a difficult one coming back quick while i'm too close to the table, so what i do is with an open bat, near the bounce i kind of lift the ball lightly, with no spin, and make a drive movement, aiming the symmetric side (cross court, going out on the short FH side of the table)

This is NOT a dropshot, im not trying to keep the ball short, and make it bounce twice on the table.

My partner (coach with chopper style) doesn't like to play this ball at all. If often forces him an error or a weaker ball next when the shot is successful, as he's a bit late to get on it, the ball is too low and lacks spin to play comfortably.

not 100% sure, but I think Timo Boll often do this shot against choppers.

2) against the dropshot from a Long Pips player.

Usually its after a BH drive (or less often a FH from BH side). I'm a little bit late on the ball. If I try to drive it "normally", i make a mistake because i would be playing while moving ie off balance. so i learnt to stay calm and keep good balance, make the effort to be lower, because i'm late on the ball, and need to play it softly , carrying it over the net.

90%+ of the time i try to play a slow ball straight where the player already is. so naturally he plays crosscourt to the BH to move me again. But because the ball i play is slow and he's a LP player anyway, it gives me time to go back to play it.

3) a similar situation to 2 but after a leftie pendulum serve, or BH serve from FH side going out on the short FH side of the table.

I have a much lower success rate on this shot in this situation. I try to even do it "backspin" loop like Simon Gauzy. main problem is im late, too far from the ball and/or not always manage to stay low while moving

Very interesting tactics for 1 and 2. I've recently been playing against this SP penholder who is somehow able to block my loops back with reversed spin (ie it's coming back as a weird backspin ball) and it's fast and well placed to boot. If I push it back he starts attacking and I'm toast. Tbh this may be an excellent idea, I already do this as an opening loop but it seems like a good idea to do this no spin fake loop against a chopblock (and mix it in with real loops).

 

[Trevize84]

don't see what makes hitting these no spin balls back with inverted so difficult You should be able to see the label on a no or low spin ball

I usually play against LP on BH and soft inverted on FH. This is because my buddy has reduced mobility, however he's tremendously consistent defender that never concedes one point. Against this guy approach has to be cautious, my coach says "you must attack only the balls you cannot avoid to attack" that's because of the great physical effort required otherwise. Sometimes I see balls I'd like to attack but they're not too safe to do it. In those cases I fake a loop and end up with an "arc ball" like you say, generally in his BH area, so that I can anticipate movements and setup a "ball I cannot avoid to attack".

 

[gaveou87]

Not when they say something "trashable". According to Pech, even beginners hit loops.
Do you really think those no spin balls are loops?

I was only referring to your statement that Seth Pech has no idea what a real loop is.
But if you want to go off in tangents nitpickig each one of his statements & try to prove that he is clueless, by all means knock yourselves out. I am not getting involved with that.
Nice try to recover though

 

[pingpongpaddy]

I think the problem is that Pech does not really have any talent for expressing himself clearly. A coach should be aware of the history of the game and should have the term "dummy Loop" in his vocabulary

 

[Trevize84]

Needing for a spinless ball? Just image a clock dial on the ball. Keep up the impact point at 4 o'clock, hit the sphere with an open racket.

Be happy.

Nice tip. Just for my understanding should I imagine the clock dial oriented as if I'm looking a wall clock? Or is the clock dial oriented towards me like a rotary saw?