How to increase the "weight" of a powerful loops in term of both spin and speed?

[Fantastic_Muffin_D]

Hi guys, recently I feel that my loops don't really have the "weight". I can loop really fast multiple times but I think that it's just speed dominantly so it's kinda easy to block. I found that I can block a lot of guys looping looking very fiercely but I just need keep the angle steady and driving forward by feeling and then constantly block like 20+ balls no problem. But when I was playing with someone used to play at a much higher level than me. I felt the heavy in every loops of them. I had to close the angle more, press it down and drive forward or if I just drive I have to contact very early on the bounce and fully forward according to my feelings, the bounce of the ball after hitting my table is very steep toward me, I just can stand like 5-6 of them. My playing style is blocking with placement on the FH and strike on BH.
Is it the small acceleration at the contact time in their loop matter (wrist, body)? I mean I can loop like 2 different types of loops (a loops entirely of spin and a powerful loop), but is there any guidelines or video to increase the weight of the powerful loop? I found like if my loops just contain fully speed, I have to vary my placement, but it would be much more efficient if there's more dangerous in every stroke to make the opponent create unforce errors. I play Vis + H3 and usually do the the drive loop.

 

[blahness]

The weight in the shot is because the energy in the ball is a lot higher (both spin and speed), and this comes from players who can use more mechanisms (body, fingers, forearm, etc... ) into their loop. Basically the better the mechanics are the stronger and harder to block the loop is.

 

[TackyForehand]

Obtain a stronger body and learn how to put your body weight into your shots. Past world no.1 Wang Liqin was said to have the strongest forehand ever. His shots had not just speed and spin, but above all, "power". His shots were described as "heavy", such that they were not returnable even if you manage to block them. And this was when the balls were smaller. With the new balls now, you can impart more energy and it is easier to do so.

 

[dingyibvs]

Obtain a stronger body and learn how to put your body weight into your shots. Past world no.1 Wang Liqin was said to have the strongest forehand ever. His shots had not just speed and spin, but above all, "power". His shots were described as "heavy", such that they were not returnable even if you manage to block them. And this was when the balls were smaller. With the new balls now, you can impart more energy and it is easier to do so.

A bigger ball would lose more energy as it travels through air.

Brokenball's explanation is just a long-winded way of saying you need to swing faster, and that using that energy to generate spin is as good if not better than generating speed.

As for how to actually accomplish it, it's a complicated process. The rough synopsis is to start from your legs to your waist, to your shoulder, to your elbow, to your wrist. Accelerate them sequentially in a whip-like fashion, and accelerate through your contact. Studies have shown that top level players achieve their maximum racket speed just after contact, not sure if it's for power or accuracy or both, but that's what you should do.

 

[ben1229]

Once you can hit the ball by your body movement, you can shot out a heavy ball, there are a lot of videos show you how to.

 

[ben1229]

By the way, and structure is very important in match.

 

[S-Pin]

I'd like to add one thing to what was said above: the hitting point.

Thing is we are not robots, we are made of flesh and bones, not metal gears and levers. Therefore we are unable to produce a constant swing. Our swing speed has a bell curve, we accelerate, reach the highest/fastest point for a moment and start to decelerate or slow down.

The fastest point should be your hit point.

But so many players miss the hitting point and hit the ball just a millisecond too late or too early. You can put all your force into such a shot, but you won't transfer your maximum energy to the ball.

The precise hit point + well coordinated legs-body- arm-wrist movement = heavy ball. It comes with timing. Higher level players don't necessary put more power into their shots, they just have their timing and hit point right - to a millisecond. This is the millisecond when their bats are swinging fastest.

 

[Fantastic_Muffin_D]

I'd like to add one thing to what was said above: the hitting point.

Thing is we are not robots, we are made of flesh and bones, not metal gears and levers. Therefore we are unable to produce a constant swing. Our swing speed has a bell curve, we accelerate, reach the highest/fastest point for a moment and start to decelerate or slow down.

The fastest point should be your hit point.

But so many players miss the hitting point and hit the ball just a millisecond too late or too early. You can put all your force into such a shot, but you won't transfer your maximum energy to the ball.

The precise hit point + well coordinated legs-body- arm-wrist movement = heavy ball. It comes with timing. Higher level players don't necessary put more power into their shots, they just have their timing and hit point right - to a millisecond. This is the millisecond when their bats are swinging fastest.

Agree about the timing tho, recently, I tried to wait the ball at an exact estimate timing each stroke and the quality does improve. I tried to push the ground from my right leg to left leg and core rotation more precisely to hit the ball at the middle of lag phase (it improve quality too).
About the timing, I think I can put every shot on the table with high quality if I wait long enough from return serve to strokes (which is the things that I usually neglect, I always hit the ball on the bounce if I can, my first & 2nd coach said that is my strength since lots of people stuck at the late timing and never accelerate it. That's why I play at a really fast timing, outpace the opponent, don't let them figure out a clue. My coach said to me that I can only win 3-0 or 3-1 but I will lose most of close game (which I found it true lol). Some people realize they can disturb my fast rhythms and play weird stuff, weird timing and then I will lose.
Hitting the ball on the bounce disturb the opponent a lot (speed and their preparation time) but sometimes I think I need to create something outside that two aspect. I think the phrase "let the ball come to you" has its magic too tho.

 

[dingyibvs]

the weight or the mass of the ball doesn't change. Stop making more misinformation. You are not helping yourself or others. I can understand this kind of talk from an uneducated high school student so I take the time to explain what they cannot. TT balls have kinetic energy that changes with speed and rotation changes. The mass does not change.

Nobody thinks the weight or mass of the ball changes. The fact that you think that's what he meant says more about you than about him.

 

[Zwill]

Nobody thinks the weight or mass of the ball changes. The fact that you think that's what he meant says more about you than about him.

I think the weight of the ball changes. Isn't weight = mass * acceleration? It changes all the bloody time.

 

[dingyibvs]

I think the weight of the ball changes. Isn't weight = mass * acceleration? It changes all the bloody time.

Hmm I stand corrected @brokenball.

No @Zwill, that's force. Weight must use acceleration due to gravity. That technically does change depending on where you are, but the difference is not significant.

 

[Zwill]

Hmm I stand corrected @brokenball.

No @Zwill, that's force. Weight must use acceleration due to gravity. That technically does change depending on where you are, but the difference is not significant.

Ah ok, so weight is defined in English as the force Earth's gravitational pull has on mass.

 

[ben1229]

Speed+spin?

 

[vanjr]

The term "weight" is a very apt metaphor for what the OP is asking. It is not kinetic energy. "Weight" is essentially the combination of velocity and angular momentum. The OP question remains unanswered.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I always do find it interesting that someone would post a question like this without footage of what they are actually doing so people can see and help based on what the person is actually doing.

I also find it interesting that people try to give answers without having any idea what the person is doing and therefore have no idea what would actually help that specific person get more speed and spin, more power, in their shots.

 

[NextLevel]

Hmm I stand corrected @brokenball.

No @Zwill, that's force. Weight must use acceleration due to gravity. That technically does change depending on where you are, but the difference is not significant.

Remember the original quote from our resident expert was "the weight or the mass of the ball does not change." Of course the weight is not the same thing as the mass, whether they change or not depends on level of accuracy and precision relative to the problem being solved.

The point was not significance. We all know that language and communication require interpretation, or poetry and analogy would be impossible. This is all deliberate trolling, nothing more or less. At some point, we have to get better at ignoring him.

 

[ck1407]

Hi guys, recently I feel that my loops don't really have the "weight". I can loop really fast multiple times but I think that it's just speed dominantly so it's kinda easy to block. I found that I can block a lot of guys looping looking very fiercely but I just need keep the angle steady and driving forward by feeling and then constantly block like 20+ balls no problem. But when I was playing with someone used to play at a much higher level than me. I felt the heavy in every loops of them. I had to close the angle more, press it down and drive forward or if I just drive I have to contact very early on the bounce and fully forward according to my feelings, the bounce of the ball after hitting my table is very steep toward me, I just can stand like 5-6 of them. My playing style is blocking with placement on the FH and strike on BH.
Is it the small acceleration at the contact time in their loop matter (wrist, body)? I mean I can loop like 2 different types of loops (a loops entirely of spin and a powerful loop), but is there any guidelines or video to increase the weight of the powerful loop? I found like if my loops just contain fully speed, I have to vary my placement, but it would be much more efficient if there's more dangerous in every stroke to make the opponent create unforce errors. I play Vis + H3 and usually do the the drive loop.

Let's go back to the main topic.

Since you mentioned you can loop fast and you feel the ball isn't heavy, you definitely brush the ball more. I play frequently with my friend and I think his shots are like your's base on your description.

From my experience, looping is a ratio between brushing and driving. If u want more power on the shot, drive more. If you want more safety, brush more (since you can create a better arc for net clearance). So as a player, you have to judge the incoming ball and determine if there is an opportunity for you to drive the ball more aka loop kill or brush more and maintain your continuous aggression.

Aim towards feeling the ball when you hit the ball ( the feeling should feel like the ball penetrated the sponge and you are getting feedback from the blade) this will show that your power is transferred to the ball efficiently

 

[dingyibvs]

Let's go back to the main topic.

Since you mentioned you can loop fast and you feel the ball isn't heavy, you definitely brush the ball more. I play frequently with my friend and I think his shots are like your's base on your description.

From my experience, looping is a ratio between brushing and driving. If u want more power on the shot, drive more. If you want more safety, brush more (since you can create a better arc for net clearance). So as a player, you have to judge the incoming ball and determine if there is an opportunity for you to drive the ball more aka loop kill or brush more and maintain your continuous aggression.

Aim towards feeling the ball when you hit the ball ( the feeling should feel like the ball penetrated the sponge and you are getting feedback from the blade) this will show that your power is transferred to the ball efficiently

That's not true. A ball feels heavy usually when it's both fast and spinny. I've blocked smashes that don't feel very heavy, and I've blocked superhuman level spin on my robot that doesn't feel heavy. For that "heavy" feel, you need a ball with enough forward momentum to really dig into your racket, and for it to have enough spin that it seems to want to pull the racket out of your hand.

If you want to reliably recreate the shot, try first by waiting until the ball is below the table, then drive as hard as you can and have it land. You can't land a loop drive without it being extremely spinny. Most people for safety use a very brushing shot, but don't do that, try to really drive into the rubber as much as you can and still have it land. If you can do that, you've found the feeling of creating a "heavy" ball, and then you can work on recreating that feeling with loops.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hi guys, recently I feel that my loops don't really have the "weight".

I didn't really read everything and I see there is some science discussion going on.
So I will just go straight to the point of your first sentence.

I suspect you are not using enough of powers from your legs and body weight.
so the weight of the ball feels soft.

Here is a video of a coach showing a beginning on how to do a very simple exercise to bring the weight forward
This video was taken over 10 years ago

This video is more recent and you can see even national players are doing it.

If I was just to shuffle and hit, versus shuffle, hit and bring weight over to the left and forward. I can tell you on the same block on the same speed/swing/power, one the ball will be on, and the other the ball will be flying off.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Hi guys, recently I feel that my loops don't really have the "weight". I can loop really fast multiple times but I think that it's just speed dominantly so it's kinda easy to block. I found that I can block a lot of guys looping looking very fiercely but I just need keep the angle steady and driving forward by feeling and then constantly block like 20+ balls no problem. But when I was playing with someone used to play at a much higher level than me. I felt the heavy in every loops of them. I had to close the angle more, press it down and drive forward or if I just drive I have to contact very early on the bounce and fully forward according to my feelings, the bounce of the ball after hitting my table is very steep toward me, I just can stand like 5-6 of them. My playing style is blocking with placement on the FH and strike on BH.
Is it the small acceleration at the contact time in their loop matter (wrist, body)? I mean I can loop like 2 different types of loops (a loops entirely of spin and a powerful loop), but is there any guidelines or video to increase the weight of the powerful loop? I found like if my loops just contain fully speed, I have to vary my placement, but it would be much more efficient if there's more dangerous in every stroke to make the opponent create unforce errors. I play Vis + H3 and usually do the the drive loop.

hi muffin
generally if your topspins land deeper you will find you are forcing your opponent back better which is what you are trying to achieve with a 'heavier' ball.
the reason is that your opponent can make forward weight transfer much easier if your topspin lands short. On the other hand if yr shots land deep, opponent has to make more effort eg go back first in order to transfer weight
Another tip is to aim higher when you want your shot to penetrate