Rule Approved! New colour rubbers as of 2020!

[Suga D]

.
suga needs to actually check it. even if he misread you several times calling him names and calling out his country is just rude.

I actually would, but that wasn't just only misreading, it was plain insulting. Insulting my whole generation. You might want to read again, and then tell me how i shouldn't be offended by his words.

Playing me down as an oldtimer with a pat on the back, who doesn't know what's up nowadays, is that respectful? Was I insulting or just stating facts and asking questions?

I don't have a problem with Tony, in fact he was the first one who welcomed me on this forum, but that doesn't legitimate him playing me down, and never will.

 

[Garrison]

LMAO! Manufacturers will try it out for a bit -> almost nobody sticks to it -> they will quit selling them. The ones actually using this will probably be those annoying long pips and antispin players...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Don't know the rules of this forum but this is a reply that isn't holding back insults

For this guy, it is the norm nowadays
first he quote almost everyone and label everyone the same
now he is throwing insult when challenged.

the part of I've spoken to a shopowner, I just laughed.
I am a shopowner my self and I have plenty of friends that also are shop owners, but hey, this might be personal ego according to Mr Positive who loves to insult and calling out home country - I wonder if he even knows what my home country is

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I actually would, but that wasn't just only misreading, it was plain insulting. Pls read again, and then tell me how i shouldn't be offended by his words.
Playing me as an oldtimer who doesn't know what's up nowadays, is that respectful? Was I insulting or just stating facts?
I don't have a problem with Tony, in fact he was the first one who welcomed me on this forum, but that doesn't legitimate him playing me down, and never will.

So its okay for you to play someone down because you are an old timer
but when another use the phase old timer, you get upset

how is the irony for that?
Clearly with so many people reply to you, can't you tell your "Mr Positive" talk (aka insult) to all us Negative thinkers is not welcomed at all?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Is is that we're that resistant to change in a sport that probably has changed too much of late which is why so many are upset?

As long as the two colors are easy to tell the differences between the two, what do you care ('You" being general. Not point at any one person) how someone likes to express themselves? If someone still wants to play with black & red, nobody is stopping you. But if your opponent is playing black & green because they simply like that color more, does it really matter?

I think this rule change is cool and I like letting people express themselves however they want.

I personally don't care what colour I use - as long as it works for me (the rubber and not the colour)

Coming from a business background (of which I am involved in too), its all about numbers, cost of production, overheads and profits

Black is fixed - so the total forecast on Black rubbers remains untouched (thank God for this)

For Red, whereby the previous market share was say 100%, now it might be anywhere from 1% to 100%
The equipment committee need to confirm the other colours (it could be 1, a few or many), and each one of them will take some percentage away from Red.

So Red rubber numbers should/could decrease = higher cost then.
the numbers to justify production of say another 3 colours will lead to smaller quantities = higher cost
Inventory management nightmare = cost of money = less profit = higher markup

The shop will eventually buy at a higher cost, have more article no in stock (of which it is already a joke, that is why I refuse to stock many models)

If I was to be on ITTF panel, I would suggest Black and Red to be as is, while a pilot to bring in 2 other colour and allow it to be ITTF approved for 2 years and then pilot it.
However opening a new article no is costly, but I would say, rather let the new colour bare the cost and not let the Black rubber bare the cost of the new colour
Or ITTF to carry such cost during Pilot stage.
The consumer should not need to carry the burden of few people's decision...

Price increase will occur, in 2~3 years we can see - Mr Positive can come and quote me if I'm wrong

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Ok, so here it goes. Sometime after I stopped playing a decision was made. A restriction was put in place: one side black, one side bright red.

That restriction actually took away one of my favourite rubbers, which was available in neither black nor red, entirely.

That restriction also came with the — in my eyes — stupid side-effect of me having to buy different colours for FH and BH, even though I typically play the same on both. And it should be noted that by this corrollary players who would like to use the same rubber are prohibited to do so, if that rubber happens to be available in one of the sanctioned colors only. This is not entirely theoretical; quite a lot of DHS rubbers have a particular sponge available for a particular surface color only. So I'm not allowed to use blue sponge Hurricane 3 on both wings, by these rules. That's broken and silly.

This change of rules does not force anybody to enter veaudeville territory. It simply removes a restriction recently put in place.

What's it to anybody if I would want (say) to play a rubber that happens to be eggplant-colored? And who came up with the brilliant idea that I'm not even allowed to play with two slabs of black Rozena? I'd like to know the harm in playing with the same two rubbers in the same color. Please.

These restrictions, to me, are arbitrary and unnecessary. They were a reaction to players tilting the balance in their favour (for a very short while...) when new "special" rubbers hit the streets; anti, long pips, frictionless long pips, and so on. Well, surprise, it took a season or two for the rest to adapt to that anyway. I would hold that it's not this rule that relegated John Hilton (and his ilk) back to the subtop, but the fact that the shock of the new wore off after a little while. We grew up and learned to deal with twiddlers.

And as Yogi put it, it really doesn't matter what color rubber anybody plays with. So why create arbitrary restrictions, other than understandable ones having to do with keeping the ball visible?

You raise a very important point here.

But I guess the small TT market issues cannot be the fault of the manufacture.
The issue we have is, there needs to be 10 folds more players, maybe 20 to 30 folds.

with bigger numbers, the cost could come down - then we can have more colours.

Most national federations are not doing much
ITTF is doing something, but it is more like providing some food during a drought and then they move on

lots of TT first world countries Professional range market is shrinking
The oldies will leave the sport, less youngsters are coming in (or simply you have less children nowadays already), so this issue is a big one.

I'm quite lucky, I'm in South Africa. The market is growing every year - lots of untap areas and slowly they are introducing the sport.
however, the average South African won't be able to afford your 100USD rubbers. They would rather put food on the table.

 

[Der_Echte]

Der_Echte as a minor webstore operator has the same concerns as Tony.

Our webstore isnt a high volume seller, so carrying more variants of the same stuff is gunna require extra investment I wouldn't be expecting or prepared to do suddenly.

This would strain the ability to do the little things we do... unless the tt consumer crowd went absolutely apeshyt and started to buy every rubber like pokemon.

This would be great for consumer choice and playing satisfaction, but difficult on the smaller sellers unless they guess lucky choosing what to stock.

Even stocking one additional color of a rubber in 2 thicknesses is a major initial cost.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Der_Echte]

You raise a very important point here.

But I guess the small TT market issues cannot be the fault of the manufacture.

The issue we have is, there needs to be 10 folds more players, maybe 20 to 30 folds.

with bigger numbers, the cost could come down - then we can have more colours.

Very good point about the need to develop the market.

Millions of players are there, but they are not organized or interested yet. When we figure out how to get thousands of social players to play with modern equipment organized plus get tt in schools, at that point it would be cooking serious good.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Xylit]

All that drama in this topic aside, has anyone already thought of all the EJs out there? Myriads of new articles

​

 

[Suga D]

So its okay for you to play someone down because you are an old timer
but when another use the phase old timer, you get upset

how is the irony for that?

How did I play you down then? Don't get things twisted, mate. You started this BS. Wanna read again?
You got me all wrong when I wrote:

How depressing. And most of y'all have no experience how it is to play against different colours, all your negativity is based on assumptions and zero experience.

Look here:

yeah, like I have no knowledge/experience with production and inventory management for table tennis rubbers
yawn

This completely misses the point, since it was about having experience in the usage of different coloured rubber.
So now don't make it look as if I started this here.

Clearly with so many people reply to you, can't you tell your "Mr Positive" talk (aka insult) to all us Negative thinkers is not welcomed at all?

I've written in the first post, that I don't expect making a lot friends with what I wrote, yet I feel the need that it had to be written.
And obviously I'm not the only one who welcomes the idea of different colours.
But do you know what's also not welcome here?
people being unable to admit when their wrong even when everyone can read!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Suga D

I raise a point of my expertise in Table Tennis equipment business

you brush it off as I quote "all your negativity is based on assumptions and zero experience." and quote "your experience is limited"

Then you are proud to say you have experience, while I have not
I continue to talk about what i quoted, you continue to talk about yours and I don't see how your experience outweigh my expertise in this.
So unless you can claim that my negativity is based on assumptions and zero experience and limited, you should maybe just go offline as you declared, so you can stop embarrassing yourself.

Come back with facts please if you want to debate on my pointers - Table tennis business (I don't care about your age and your experience on using what colour, you can debate with someone else about that) and if you want to insult, have the guts to leave it there - why edit it out? you feel bad?

 

[Suga D]

Suga D

I raise a point of my expertise in Table Tennis equipment business

you brush it off as I quote "all your negativity is based on assumptions and zero experience." and quote "your experience is limited"

Then you are proud to say you have experience, while I have not
I continue to talk about what i quoted, you continue to talk about yours and I don't see how your experience outweigh my expertise in this.
So unless you can claim that my negativity is based on assumptions and zero experience and limited, you should maybe just go offline as you declared, so you can stop embarrassing yourself.

Tony,

see that's the difference, you see things from a business point of view, while I try to share the players' point of view who's been there, done that and got the free t-shirt.

But I actually don't think that one necessarily outweighs the other. I just think, there are more people that can talk from a players' point of view than from a business point of view. That's basically it.

Come back with facts please if you want to debate on my pointers - Table tennis business (I don't care about your age and your experience on using what colour, you can debate with someone else about that)

See, I don't need to debate on tabletennis business since i hardly have any expertise, but as I said: I've been to a tournament on the weekend and met an old shop owner I know from way back and I've been asking him if he's heard that about other colours might be allowed again and he replied that he's heard of that and is looking forward to it. So maybe some but not all shop owners share your thoughts.
Again:
that's all there is to it.

and if you want to insult, have the guts to leave it there - why edit it out? you feel bad?

Do I need to remind you that you wrote before that you've been insulting my whole generation by saying I'm from yes-sir era? Hence my reply that I learned to think freely and question everything and not being told what to think like in a totalitarian system like GDR (DDR) with a one party pseudo democratic system or even further back in hitlerish times and since my post has been so misunderstood i felt the need to edit it. Everyone makes mistakes, mate.

But to answer your question:
Nah, it makes me feel pretty good to be able to admit when I've shot over the border and correct myself when necessary. After all I thought that's also what the editing function is for not just for spelling or grammar corrections.

How 'bout you? You feel better now after all your insultings?

 

[Zaid323918]

RGB rubbers

 

[Loopadoop]

Bottom line, the manufacturers are going to be ones who benefit the most by adding a more diverse selection of colors.

 

[jamesmith]

they have nothing to do, it is a very unnecessary change, stupid idea

 

[yoass]

You raise a very important point here.

But I guess the small TT market issues cannot be the fault of the manufacture.
The issue we have is, there needs to be 10 folds more players, maybe 20 to 30 folds.

with bigger numbers, the cost could come down - then we can have more colours.

I understand about logistics of manufacturing, distribution, stocking.

That would be a valid point — if you assume manufacturers start to produce ranges of colours for the same rubber. Blue Mark V, green Mark V, orange Mark V, brown Mark V, red Mark V, that.

I don't think that's viable either. Yet I do think it would make sense for (say) Friendship to reintroduce the classic 729. It might make sense for Joola to reintroduce that undyed (golden brownish) rubber.

(And I still want to use two identical black rubbers and be done with it, personally. And can't, because of foolish restrictions.)

Vendors have options. We might end up with all Rasanter R variants in black or green, and the V variants in black or blue. Or we might end up with R39 in pink, R42 and V42 in blue, R47 and V47 in red, and R50 in green. (I left out red intentionally; realistically, the 47's in red would be the conservative marketing approach when seeking distinctiveness through colouring.)

There's no saying, upfront, how manufacturers will use colour to shape and position their product lines. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that from now on all vendors will produce all rubbers in all colours, resulting in that logistics nightmare you fear. I don't think the vendors are all that stupid, and they have some awareness in the issues of scale of production and distribution.

Mark V is probably a bad example, let's consider it. It's a classic, and I would guess it remains available in black and red. Messing with classics is a bad marketing ploy, and I don't see much incentive for Yasaka to spoil this traditional favourite's reputation by going all out in crazy, flashy colours.

I do see Yasaka create a new rubber with its own distinctive color, as one more way to make it stand out. So we might just get a bright yellow (and black) Waking Dragon at some point — and no red. Manufacturers have this choice.

In the end, to me it's lifting a restriction. Yes, that can lead to insane derailments. But the incentives, to me, don't seem to lead that way.

(What I would like is to simplify and be done with all this. All rubbers should be black, period! )

 

[AndySmith]

There's no saying, upfront, how manufacturers will use colour to shape and position their product lines. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that from now on all vendors will produce all rubbers in all colours, resulting in that logistics nightmare you fear. I don't think the vendors are all that stupid, and they have some awareness in the issues of scale of production and distribution.

Tony is coming from a position of worry, and he fears the absolute worst will happen. I can understand why - he has a business to run - but it's a really pessimistic view of the situation. I agree with you that the vendors will be aware that flooding the market with colour variants will cause issues for smaller stores like Tony's, so it's unlikely to go down that way. We're more likely to see new product lines having specific colour topsheets assigned to them, which stores would be carrying anyway.

 

[Loopadoop]

The Consumer, You, still has the last say, what is bought, so if you want to stick with conventional red, that is your option.

 

[DukeGaGa]

hmm~~~ anyone else thinking about white rubbers? lol

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Tony is coming from a position of worry, and he fears the absolute worst will happen. I can understand why - he has a business to run - but it's a really pessimistic view of the situation. I agree with you that the vendors will be aware that flooding the market with colour variants will cause issues for smaller stores like Tony's, so it's unlikely to go down that way. We're more likely to see new product lines having specific colour topsheets assigned to them, which stores would be carrying anyway.

Andy,
you are half right
stores won't make a loss - they will past it onto the consumer (That is the very first post after OP)

I am standing on the point of the consumer (as I am a coach of many that will struggle with further price increases)

Do you think with the ball price increase I lost money/profit?
my ball revenue more than doubled, while selling less balls - So as a business this is brilliant news actually.

Table tennis business is my hobby, I don't rely on it for a living.
I am more a coach than a business on equipment in my mind when in the table tennis industry. I actually entered the business because other sellers will ripping off and overpricing the goods
Lowering price is my goal, not raising
My reaction is not out of worry and fear for myself or my business. Consumers will need to carry this eventually (just like all previous cases)

And I'm sure you can agree - every rule change related to equipment has seen equipment pricing raised