Schlager video describing Glayzer, Glayzer 09C and Rozena

[turbozed]

I am not a big fan of Chinese rubbers for beginners. At $10 or $15 a sheet for, say, Friendship, how much money can you make?

Now in North America, a sheet of Tenergy is $72. Say the coach gets it for $45-50 and cannot give it discounted (due to Butterfly regulation), the amount of money is sizeable.

I agree that the rubber should not be too catapulty but I still feel that soft rubber with max sponge probably helps the stroke development more. So my favoriate beginner's rubber lies somewhere between Xiom Vega Intro/Elite/Europe.

You may not realize it but Xiom Vega Intro is 47.5d and just as hard as Vega Pro. It's not a soft rubber at all.

Also, the recommendation for Chinese learners is a FH rubber generally no less than 48d. This is ostensibly for the purpose of developing a brushing contact. With a harder to engage and less mushy sponge presumably it is easier to distinguish between a brush versus a hitting contact.

This is second hand information since it's just what I read from people summarizing their experiences reading Chinese forums.

 

[Migzkulit]

Actually Schlager and many many good coaches does it other way around. Soft rubbers gives you a "free speed" and you don't learn how to generate your own power. It's also modern thinking that when a kid has learned basics he/she should move to the max thickness rubbers right away. That way they will learn how to utilize max sponge from very early age. No some might think "but what about the control?". With slow blade and max sponge semi hard rubbers you will have a lots of control. Infact I would claim that 47 degree esn rubbers has generally better control than 42 degree variants just because 47 degree rubbers are less bouncy than softer ones.

Yep my coach said that to me as well. You start off with hard rubbers then when you get better, you can use softer rubbers.
All for the concept of you creating your own spin.

 

[JJ Ng]

This topic is controversial.

If you follow the progression of most Chinese players, growing up with cheap Chinese rubbers, and PingSunday EmRatThich (who is controversial on this forum because we don't know if that person exists), then yes might as well use Chinese rubbers that are harder in sponge hardness.

However, none of the European players (Timo Boll, Patrick Franziska, Liam Pitchford, etc.) played with hard Chinese rubbers growing up. They probably played with some ESN rubber (except for Timo Boll who predated the ESN era).

I am leaning toward softer sponge but with not too much catapult. I grew up playing Friendship 729 and Globe 999. But I doubt I will train my kids on hard Chinese rubbers.

 

[zeio]

And the reason for the hard sponge of Vega Intro is 40+, especially ABS balls, which actually reduces control on soft sponge as the ball digs into the sponge too much.

https://world-tt.com/ps_maker/xiom/001/page.php

　「プラスチックボールに変わり、硬いラバーのほうがフィットするようになっています。特に最近のABS 素材を使っている硬いプラスチックボールの場合、軟らかいスポンジでは食い込みすぎてコントロール性能が低下してしまいます。ボールが変われば、ラバーも変わる。それは入門者用でも同じです」（金俊洙さん）。

 

[Der_Echte]

I agree with 90% of what Schlager says. The only 10% I disagreed with is changing the blade is easier than changing the rubber.

Here is where Schlager is right. (in German he would "Have" right instead of being right hehe)

If you play a few years with the same rubbers... on the same blade and you have a reasonable amount of "feel" or "touch" and fundamentals... then when you change the blade and keep the same rubbers, you know right away what the new blade is doing.

The potential difference of a new rubber on the same blade is possible much more stark.

eg, if you are using whatever blade, say a TBS for everyone to have some baseline... and you were using H3... now suddenly you start using T05FX for your FH rubber... that is a massive change.

eg. if you are using the 968 blade with H3 FH (and you have that well trained power impact for FH)... and you keep the H3 on FH and switch the blade to a Schlager Carbon... One could pretty much play the same shots right away with some small adjustments. Although it is a major change the change the speed and properties of a blade, it is much easier to do this with the same rubbers., It is nowhere in the category of changing H3 for T05FX on the same blade, which would pretty much require reprogramming ones entire brain.

 

[piligrim]

Here is where Schlager is right. (in German he would "Have" right instead of being right hehe)

If you play a few years with the same rubbers... on the same blade and you have a reasonable amount of "feel" or "touch" and fundamentals... then when you change the blade and keep the same rubbers, you know right away what the new blade is doing.

The potential difference of a new rubber on the same blade is possible much more stark.

eg, if you are using whatever blade, say a TBS for everyone to have some baseline... and you were using H3... now suddenly you start using T05FX for your FH rubber... that is a massive change.

eg. if you are using the 968 blade with H3 FH (and you have that well trained power impact for FH)... and you keep the H3 on FH and switch the blade to a Schlager Carbon... One could pretty much play the same shots right away with some small adjustments. Although it is a major change the change the speed and properties of a blade, it is much easier to do this with the same rubbers., It is nowhere in the category of changing H3 for T05FX on the same blade, which would pretty much require reprogramming ones entire brain.

What if you using T05 on Infinity and change blade to ZJK SZLC? ))

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi Piligrim... if someone used T05 on that Infinity you described for a few years, then must use T05 on one of those super ZLC money pit blades, it is still not even 1/2 as fierce a change as changing H3 to T05FX on same blade.

Would be an even larger change to start using 2.0 sponged short pips on your BH suddenly, instead of T05.

 

[piligrim]

Hi Piligrim... if someone used T05 on that Infinity you described for a few years, then must use T05 on one of those super ZLC money pit blades, it is still not even 1/2 as fierce a change as changing H3 to T05FX on same blade.

Would be an even larger change to start using 2.0 sponged short pips on your BH suddenly, instead of T05.

Why someone who use T05fx will change to H3? Its very unusual change from soft tensor to hard tacky chinese rubber. If someone using T05FX most likely will change to T05, T05 Hard or Dignics if he wants harder and faster rubber

 

[Der_Echte]

Yes, unlikely, but the point is, there is much more potential a change when one changes rubbers with same blade than blades with same rubber.

 

[NextLevel]

Hi Piligrim... if someone used T05 on that Infinity you described for a few years, then must use T05 on one of those super ZLC money pit blades, it is still not even 1/2 as fierce a change as changing H3 to T05FX on same blade.

Would be an even larger change to start using 2.0 sponged short pips on your BH suddenly, instead of T05.

Even changing from All+ Blade with T05 to Schlager Carbon with T05. You will lose all the feeling and gain tons of speed, but if you have used the rubber before, it is easier to see what the blade is doing. With rubbers, pimple configurations can have a massive effect as well as tack, sponge hardness/thickness etc.

I have pointed out though that Schlager wasn't saying that blade is not important or can't make a massive change. His main point was that these Glayzer and Rozena rubbers are good rubbers to start someone on and keep them there while changing the blade so they don't have to relearn technique.

 

[JJ Ng]

When I EJ, I either keep the blades the same while I change the rubber; or I keep the rubber the same while changing the blades.

I think both blades and rubber are important. People often change both when they EJ and they come to very strange conclusions as a result.

I watched the whole video. Schlager is great. He was very informative. The video is awesome.

However, the video is a paid commercial by Butterfly to say, Glayzer is great. Don't sh*t on that rubber. Go use it, beginners or intermediate players. Stop listening to all the reviewers who say Glayzer is too slow compared to Tenergy and Dignics.

I remember someone said that Schlager took the time to answer questions on a forum and then basement players were trying to correct the ex-world champion and he got frustrated and got off a forum. What a shame to lose his voice and his insights.

 

[zeio]

This youtube comment cracks me up. When kids only know and hence think Boll is the greatest European...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XS99e93UoXg&lc=UgyeCmbZvblAD5tv_A14AaABAg

 

[davidzhang]

I use G09c on both sides on a w968 it is really great ! Spinny, a lot of control and when you accelerate the speed is fast, it is slow if you dont use your body. I think it is a great choice for intermediate players who are willing to use their own force. I may try Glayzer on my BH as I am not strong enough to fully use G09c on that side.

 

[z0uLess]

Really interesting his opinion about switching the blade is easier than the rubber

I went this route, starting with Stiga Offensive Classic and then upgraded to Avalox P500 with the same rubbers. Its a very similar blade, only a bit stiffer and a bit faster. I also like it a lot better because it is very balanced and has great feeling.

 

[igorponger]

Dont let a child to a candy shop. He will spoil himself to death.

 

[Jslick89]

Why someone who use T05fx will change to H3? Its very unusual change from soft tensor to hard tacky chinese rubber. If someone using T05FX most likely will change to T05, T05 Hard or Dignics if he wants harder and faster rubber

ha! i'm thinking of changing from tenergy 05 to a hard tacky chinese rubber....last night i played with a innner carbon blade and friendship battle 2 rubber. i was hitting some insane forehand loops...... it was easy for me to adjust my forehand as that is my bread and butter. but using a softer rubber on my backhand...that was a significant change.