Technique advice for me

[Wrighty67]

Wow that FH performance in that game is better than mine already 😂 What a bomb! You've tightened the serve movement and the FH loop a lot it seems, which is giving you some amazing consistency and quality. I can see your arm movement is a lot smaller now and a very body focused stroke which is what makes it's power.

Tbh if you had a slightly better BH game you would have destroyed him easily.

You pretty much just have a straight BH push and a loop which is way too few options at the moment.

If you're good at serving BH pendulum I would highly recommend complicating it a bit by using the BH fade receive which is almost an identical movement as the BH pendulum serve.

If you learn the BH tomahawk/hook serve you'll have the BH chopblock receive at your disposal.

Penholders dislike wide angle shots so you can use both sidespins to really increase the angle for them.

The other thing you could learn is the use of the fingers to enhance your BH loop. So the idea is that your thumb and index finger are two lever arms. You can press using the middle joint of the thumb on the BH rubber to turn it and spin the ball, and stop the movement with your index finger (a bit like snapping fingers). You can use this mechanism for the chiquita too. So what you can do is the same as what you do for looping half long serves on FH - roll a ball towards the edge of the table, and use your fingers alone to rotate the bat and spin the ball up. In my experience this was actually one of the most important lessons in the BH loop, because once you realise how easy it is to create topspin, you no longer need a big arm backswing at all and can directly power the BH with weight transfer.

The use of the fingers in this way is also the secret to the chiquita - it allows you to overcome even heavy backspin easy peasy.

Can you please elaborate on the para below as I’m really interested in exploring it. I’m confused about the part where you say to press the thumb into the BH rubber - do you mean FH rubber?

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, in fact my loop is threatening enough to him that he makes a good amount of errors when pushing as he tries to make sure the quality (location, height, length, etc.) is perfect. With that said, I'm trying to attack everything that comes long as long pushes will get punished by better players and I want to practice my opening loop and re-loop.

There are only 2 regulars in the club who have a league rating above me, and I think I can beat both of them if I change my tactics. Against Bill I've seen many times how others play him exactly the way you described, which is push long to his BH side and wait for an opportunity to attack, and they give him a lot of trouble for it. The other player is a better attacker, but has a better service than Bill. Against him if I play more conservatively in my service receive I can beat him in a rally. He loops rather than flat hits, which makes it a lot easier for me to deal with. Again though, I feel like playing that way would get punished against higher level players, so I'm trying to stay aggressive. I want my BH to be more like my FH, never pushing anything long.

In that vein, what do you guys think I can do to improve my readiness to loop on the BH side? Should I simply develop a quicker and more instinctive backswing, or should I change my ready stance to be more BH favored? Despite my practices, I still feel very unconfident when a ball comes to my BH side, especially a backspin. Even when I have enough time to think about the attack I still tighten up and execute poorly much more often than I'd like. When a player can change the spin too e.g. with no spin or side spin pushes or even flicks, it's even worse.

You are doing the right things. Do 2-point backhand footwork drills, where you need to move into position between the backhand corner and the backhand or forehand middle to play backhands. As part of the movement, you need to bow, use your legs and prepare the backswing while moving (basically jump into your backswing). This will improve your backhand preparation and then allow you to integrate backhand footwork into your forehand drills so you don't feel a disconnect in preparation when you need to play a backhand.

 

[blahness]

I think on the FH side my improvement is mostly in being certain when I should use my FH. A quicker reaction helps immensely. On the BH side I see my biggest issue as a lack of quick reaction. While I've improved in knowing when to use my BH, I still am not reacting quickly enough to know when to attack, push, or block. I think I need to improve on that before I can work further on technique improvement. I know my current technique is much better than what I can execute right now, so I really need to work on my mindset.

Maybe what I'll do is to do some mixed topspin/backspin FH/BH exercises. I'll start simple and then ramp up.

The other thing is that I just signed up for a tournament in a little over 2 weeks! It'll be my first tournament in like 10+ years. Not sure if @Littledragonman7 or @Der_Echte can come, it's in San Carlos. So I'm putting technical improvements on pause right now and work more on applying what I know.

I only signed up for one event as I don't know what my stamina can handle right now. Last week during league play I played 5 matches in 2 hours, almost no break in between as many of my matches went to 5 sets with numerous long sets so people were always waiting for me to finish. I was so exhausted by the end and really struggled to finish the 5th match. Luckily it was against the worst player in the group, and I toughed up for the last set to finish with a win.
Maybe it was because I had a long practice session the day before, I'm not sure. I think later this year I'll be able to handle 2 events for sure. Since I got the robot in mid-November, besides the times I took a couple of trips I haven't had a day where my legs aren't sore. My cardiovascular endurance has improved much more quickly, probably from playing soccer, so my legs and shoulder are the ones holding me back from higher intensity in my training right now.

The issue with your BH movement is that your backswing is pretty much arm powered. Once you have arm powered backswing, you will always feel jammed by sudden balls in matches, even though they may look good during practice. Think about your previous matches where you missed a ton of FH loops vs now when you're blasting one bomb after another - what really changed? You tightened your FH stroke to really reduce arm movements during the backswing which allowed you much better body - arm connection, and got you a lot more time to actually read the ball and adjust to it. But if you remember, before the changes you could still blast high quality FH loops in practice but couldn't execute it in matches.

You'll need to do the same exercise for BH to get rid of arm backswing and use hip rotation and the body alone to do the backswing - never the arm. Power the stroke with weight transfer and hip rotation similar to what you do on the FH.

 

[blahness]

Can you please elaborate on the para below as I’m really interested in exploring it. I’m confused about the part where you say to press the thumb into the BH rubber - do you mean FH rubber?

Your thumb rests on your BH rubber right?😂 Index finger is the one resting on the FH rubber.

Edit: this is completely wrong but I'll keep it up for laughs 🤣

 

[dingyibvs]

Your thumb rests on your BH rubber right?😂 Index finger is the one resting on the FH rubber.

I see you're doubling down on that error

 

[blahness]

I see you're doubling down on that error

LOL hahahaha my bad what a brain fart. Wrighty and dingyibvs you're both right and I'm completely wrong 😂. Coz I always think thumb applying pressure for BH strokes and index finger applying pressure on FH strokes, but I didn't realise that the thumb is applying pressure on the FH rubber and vice versa for the index.

 

[Der_Echte]

... The other thing is that I just signed up for a tournament in a little over 2 weeks! It'll be my first tournament in like 10+ years. Not sure if @Littledragonman7 or @Der_Echte can come, it's in San Carlos. So I'm putting technical improvements on pause right now and work more on applying what I know.

I only signed up for one event as I don't know what my stamina can handle right now....

Hi dingyibvs...

Let me see if I am available to go to that Tourney ... uhm... Yes. Both Der_Echte and LDM7 will be there decked out in matching Donic gear as LDM7 is competing in that tourney. I also want to see if Korean Coach daniel is still there... he makes vids for his Road to Pro vid series on youtube.

Stamina ? I frequently hit so damn hard with so much physicality for one hour bursts Fridays and Mondays with Pastor Roman at the Russian Church (who is so damn agile athletic and has power) at my weight of 110 kg (240 lbs) and play tennis the nights not at TT... at 5' 7" and THAT weight, I am SURE that you CAN HANG Mr. dingyibvs.

 

[Der_Echte]

To be sure @dingyibvs ... LDM7's events are on that Saturday April 15.

 

[Jslick89]

Hi dingyibvs...

Let me see if I am available to go to that Tourney ... uhm... Yes. Both Der_Echte and LDM7 will be there decked out in matching Donic gear as LDM7 is competing in that tourney. I also want to see if Korean Coach daniel is still there... he makes vids for his Road to Pro vid series on youtube.

Stamina ? I frequently hit so damn hard with so much physicality for one hour bursts Fridays and Mondays with Pastor Roman at the Russian Church (who is so damn agile athletic and has power) at my weight of 110 kg (240 lbs) and play tennis the nights not at TT... at 5' 7" and THAT weight, I am SURE that you CAN HANG Mr. dingyibvs.

wow thanks for the invite!

 

[dingyibvs]

To be sure @dingyibvs ... LDM7's events are on that Saturday April 15.

Ah, I'll be doing a Sunday event. I don't qualify for the Sat events due to my rating from like 12 yrs ago 😒

wow thanks for the invite!

You're welcome! I figured you were smart enough to rearrange the letters in my post to find the hidden invite 😇

 

[blahness]

Can you please elaborate on the para below as I’m really interested in exploring it. I’m confused about the part where you say to press the thumb into the BH rubber - do you mean FH rubber?

The lever arm is created by your thumb exerting pressure on the right side of the blade face and the index finger exerting pressure on the left (bat pointed upwards for reference).

See Ti Long's video which has an excellent explanation here:

 

[Der_Echte]

wow thanks for the invite!

Hey J-Slick, you were on prolonged radio silence... and I thought you were undercover somewhere in Krooklyn NYC helping @UpSideDownCarl lure the Goon Squad to his trap door.

LDM7 is going to TTA this Sun and Apr 15 at Pong Planet. You could come over there and heckle us...

 

[dingyibvs]

The issue with your BH movement is that your backswing is pretty much arm powered. Once you have arm powered backswing, you will always feel jammed by sudden balls in matches, even though they may look good during practice. Think about your previous matches where you missed a ton of FH loops vs now when you're blasting one bomb after another - what really changed? You tightened your FH stroke to really reduce arm movements during the backswing which allowed you much better body - arm connection, and got you a lot more time to actually read the ball and adjust to it. But if you remember, before the changes you could still blast high quality FH loops in practice but couldn't execute it in matches.

You'll need to do the same exercise for BH to get rid of arm backswing and use hip rotation and the body alone to do the backswing - never the arm. Power the stroke with weight transfer and hip rotation similar to what you do on the FH.

I'm trying to add a bit more body movement to all my BH shots now in practice. Due to me being in a FH stance rather often, I think full weight transfer is not realistic, the pros don't do that either. But certainly they do use the whole body, so I need to do that more starting from warm-ups.

As for my FH, there isn't much of an improvement in loops/drives vs backspin. It's pretty much the same FH I've always had. I think it's just a small sample size issue, but my FH opening loop vs backspin has always been my primary method of scoring points. If it doesn't score directly then the reloop usually does. Bill blocks more actively than most, puts either more pace or sidespin to it, so it's a bit harder for me to reloop. In real games I usually crouch a bit lower which really helps in getting into position to reloop.

 

[Jslick89]

Hey J-Slick, you were on prolonged radio silence... and I thought you were undercover somewhere in Krooklyn NYC helping @UpSideDownCarl lure the Goon Squad to his trap door.

LDM7 is going to TTA this Sun and Apr 15 at Pong Planet. You could come over there and heckle us...

well, if radio silence means infected with that pandemic virus, then yes i was. I actually had my car all packed up, ice chest and everything, to go to James' tournament. Then i started eating breakfast and noticed i was feeling hot and had as cough. I took my temp and it was over 100 degrees. I said, i better take a covid test just in case because a lot of dinosaurs play TT. Unfortunately the results were positive.

I'm better now though!

I can't make TTA this sunday but maybe i can convince the wife to let me to to Pong Planet. How is the facility?

 

[Der_Echte]

I never been there, but the vids I see from Coach Daniel on his Road to Pro TT channel on youtube make the club look on par with ICC or TTA for play conditions.

 

[dingyibvs]

It looked like you hit ur bh and drifted back... that isn't gunna kill you vs the countering or fast blocking crowd, but anyone with a soft block is gunna make you miss the next bh.

OK, so I didn't really get what you were talking about, but today I did. I'll explain below.

I went to play at a new club, the Berkeley weekly RR. Playing a bunch of new people is quite an experience. The first match was against a short pips, thin sponge, both sides SH player with a club rating of ~1700. Even during warm-ups I was befuddled. I was either blocking his loops into the net or off the table. His shots were kind of like inverted, just with less spin. I eventually just FH power looped everything, 100% power either with extremely heavy spin or speed, and beat him 3-2.

I then played two two-winged BH dominant bloopers in a row, I think rated in the 1700's, and I lost both 2-3 and 1-3. This is when I remembered the words of @Der_Echte. I was focused on my opening loop at the time, and now that I can make it more regularly especially if I take my time and push one or twice sometimes (I'm entering tournament prep, so less aggressive with my BH), I see what he means.

Those 2 guys obviously avoided my FH and kept blocking looping, softly, to my BH. And I just didn't know what to do with that. Whenever I opened up with my BH or they opened up to my BH, I block or loop then I move back, looking for an opportunity to get in a big FH. They then softly block or give me a soft spinny loop and I don't know what to do. I don't have enough time to both pivot and step forward to use my FH, and if I reach forward to use my BH then I can't get any quality unless the ball is really high. Should I just not back off? Or should I wait for the ball to come to me and learn to BH loop from below the table? Or should I anticipate better and try to get in a FH? I guys pros' opening loops and anticipation are so good that stepping back a bit after opening up is not a big deal, but it's a big issue to me.

My 3rd match was against a mid-1600's guy with a bunch of tricky services. Boy do I appreciate the match experiences before the tournament. I couldn't handle his services and receives, and was losing 10-1 the first set! I got it back to like 10-7 before losing that set, and then won the next 3.

My last match was against an ~1800 two-winged looper. He's also BH dominant, but he's a lefty, and BH vs FH is just not a fair match. I was winning comfortably 2-0 I think 11-7 and 11-4 but then the club had to close. They messed up the roster and added an extra guy to my group so we didn't have enough time to finish all the matches. Even after this match I had a Cpen SP/LP guy left to play, and I was looking forward to that.

Overall it was a solid day, really improved my match play abilities. I aim to find the right balance of aggressiveness on my FH/BH to maximize my abilities. I also need to improve my tactics. I'm too used only thinking about technique during matches. I did hit some nice counterloops, but people didn't test my FH much. One time a guy looped with all his power and I looped it back with vengeance, it was beautiful. I want so desperately to get better at my BH so I'll have more opportunities to do that!

 

[dingyibvs]

OK, based on what @Der_Echte was saying earlier, I'm gonna guess that I shouldn't back off the table so easily. With that said, I think all 3 skills are things I should possess, so I'm gonna modify my random FH/BH drill. Instead of 50/50 FH/BH, I'll change it to 30/70, with the two extra BH balls being variable location low speed (speed 10, instead of 25) balls. I'm pretty comfortable with short balls to the FH side, so unless I find it to be an issue later on I'll keep that the same, except making the 3 remaining balls variable location. This way even though I get FH balls less frequently, they'll still cover the whole FH side. I plan to BH loop the shallow balls to my deep BH side, then pivot and use my FH when it comes closer to the middle.

This should approximate real game scenarios better.

 

[Der_Echte]

If they soft block, you want to be at the table to BH pound it if the block goes there... very easy. Show you in person later. You can punish them for blocking too safe to your BH.

 

[dingyibvs]

If they soft block, you want to be at the table to BH pound it if the block goes there... very easy. Show you in person later. You can punish them for blocking too safe to your BH.

Thanks, I did some more training with the new regimen, and I liked it. I found speed at 9 was better, makes it really short. If it's also fairly spinny (+5 spin) it's pretty hard for me to loop, so I need to work on that. I'll have to learn how to really punish them from you 😁

 

[Der_Echte]

A matter of seeing what happened, a step in, bat up and BANG with a firming at impact. You can make it sound like you are breaking the ball with a one foot stroke. Higher, softer, shorter balls on BH are targets for destruction if you can see it and have done it a couple times.

You get these kind of balls from your dead push and the block from your BH loop. it is like the opponent is handing you candy.