Term for modern defender stroke?

[allencorn]

Almost every modern defender has a stroke they use on their forehand side where they use a very short stroke and seem to basically block or scoop a heavy topspin shot when they are back from the table. Not a full swing loop, and it seems they are just making a safe shot back on the table. Anyone know if this type of stroke has a name or term? Gionis uses it quite often.

Also, are there any world-class left-handed defenders? That would seem to be a unique advantage, but I do not recall seeing any.

Thanks.

 

[xVill]

I've heard or being labelled as "fishing"

 

[raazzz]

I have also just heard fishing, we should maybe come up with a new word?

 

[TareqPhoto]

How about calling it "creeping"? hehe

 

[allencorn]

I've heard or being labelled as "fishing"

To me fishing is more a style than a stroke. The stroke defenders use seems more purposeful and calculated, and has a lower trajectory than fishing.

 

[Der_Echte]

FISHING is usually bringing back a ball when you are very far back, it is like a lob but less height.

RETRIEVING is also done from distance and also mid distance, but the shot is just simply bringing the ball back without a lot of spin or some sidespin for control.

 

[Bogeyhunter]

I call it "Guiding"

 

[allencorn]

I call it "Guiding"

Guiding is a great word for it. Could you explain it a bit?

 

[izra]

it's basically driving the ball forward with a slow stroke, controling the depth and placement and just letting your opponents spin transfer into the shot instead of producing your own spin. defenders use it because you can easily perform it while still having your right foot in front.

 

[Der_Echte]

Bogey will explain himself, after all, he is an elite amature defender, but I think the term pretty much explains itsef.

Another term I use is "Soft Topspin Defense" which is a shot I make at the table or a step away, usually on FH. The might be a ball coming in I will not make a strong FH counter-attack, but use a very soft hand at impact and go through ball lightly, or if it is a fast incoming ball, then I would allow the incoming pace and spin of the ball to bump my racket back a little.

The end result is a very controlable return that has some light topspin.

Why is this shot useful? It can be very difficult to time the ball based on just looking at the stroke. Also, even if the topspin is very light, it will still "kick" when it lands on other side, so the opponnet must deal with that change of timing and location as well.

Even yet another shot is a light topspin passing shot. A lot of Div 1 Korean players use this as a shot to stay in the rally and look to attack the next ball or at the very least, prevent the opponent from strongly attacking high percentage.

How does it work?

Let's say you are a step or two from the table and your opponent changed depths on you and now you are either out of position to make a strong topspin with pace, or the location of the shot makes it unfeasable to get there to do that.

Instea of going for a low percentage attack, you could make a light topspin shot and keep it low over the net, either shallow bounce or deep bounce on opponent side. The ball isn't high enough to kill easily with a smash and the topspin can be really tricky to time. Once opponents go for a kill and miss a few (because the kill vs this ball is NOT nearly as easy as it looks) then their return is also a "safe" return. If you can time it or anticipate well (you should, because you know what he is gunna do) then you can attack with topspin or pace depending on the ball you get back.

So now you have suddenly changed from being under pressure, you stayed in the point, and you have a better opportunity to take control of the point or even end it.

Isn't that a great deal?

What should we call such a shot?

 

[allencorn]

Bogey will explain himself, after all, he is an elite amature defender, but I think the term pretty much explains itsef.

Another term I use is "Soft Topspin Defense" which is a shot I make at the table or a step away, usually on FH. The might be a ball coming in I will not make a strong FH counter-attack, but use a very soft hand at impact and go through ball lightly, or if it is a fast incoming ball, then I would allow the incoming pace and spin of the ball to bump my racket back a little.

The end result is a very controlable return that has some light topspin.

Why is this shot useful? It can be very difficult to time the ball based on just looking at the stroke. Also, even if the topspin is very light, it will still "kick" when it lands on other side, so the opponnet must deal with that change of timing and location as well.

Even yet another shot is a light topspin passing shot. A lot of Div 1 Korean players use this as a shot to stay in the rally and look to attack the next ball or at the very least, prevent the opponent from strongly attacking high percentage.

How does it work?

Let's say you are a step or two from the table and your opponent changed depths on you and now you are either out of position to make a strong topspin with pace, or the location of the shot makes it unfeasable to get there to do that.

Instea of going for a low percentage attack, you could make a light topspin shot and keep it low over the net, either shallow bounce or deep bounce on opponent side. The ball isn't high enough to kill easily with a smash and the topspin can be really tricky to time. Once opponents go for a kill and miss a few (because the kill vs this ball is NOT nearly as easy as it looks) then their return is also a "safe" return. If you can time it or anticipate well (you should, because you know what he is gunna do) then you can attack with topspin or pace depending on the ball you get back.

So now you have suddenly changed from being under pressure, you stayed in the point, and you have a better opportunity to take control of the point or even end it.

Isn't that a great deal?

What should we call such a shot?

Thanks. That captures pretty well what I was thinking. It still should have a term of its own, though. "Guided Topspin"? "Flat Lob"? Have to think about it.

A second part of my defender questions was if there were any left-handed defenders at a world class level. I can't think of any, and I wonder why there aren't any,

 

[Der_Echte]

From your first description, it sure sounded like you meant the "guide" shot our CEO described.

The "guide" shot is a kind of retrieve shot, but it is lower. It realy isn't a counter-attack, it is simply bringing the ball back without risk.

The light topspin shot I describe is a tactic many Div 1 Korean players use when under pressure, caught out of position too far back or too the side, or as a setup to create a better chance to strongly attack. There really isn't a term for this shot in the TT world. We all just say the player made a "soft topspin" shot.

Then there is the soft topspin defense concept. It is really blocking with soft hands and a small follow thought to take away a lot of the pace (absorbing it) and return a ball that is slower and has "safe" topspin that can "kick" a little on other end making a lot of amature players wary to attack it.

The Div 1 Korean J-Pen wielding brigade are pros at blocking another way - DEAD. They can totally wipe away your heavy topspin and give you back a ball you think is light topsin, so you set back a little and prepare your timing to pounce on that block... then something happens... or to put it another way, DOESN'T happen. There is no topsin on that block and it doesn't kick. Most times, you dont see it and you impacting the ball way too far in front and you don't adjust off balance like that very well. If you do manage to notice the bounce was dead, then you are now too far back to do much about it except lay off and play a "safe" shot like the light topspin I described above and fight again another day. Korean Div 1 J-pen players prey upon over-aggressive shakehand attackers that way and it is funny as heck to watch the look on both their faces.

 

[allencorn]

On watching the German Open, Ruwen Filus is the master of whatever this shot is called. He is a modern defender, but I don't think he ever chops with his forehand. His forehand is often the shot we are discussing, which seems to be most effective against heavy, slowish, topspin. Less risky than countering, and with all the spin the shot often kicks with sidespin. Fun style to watch. I hope he keeps improving.