The Chinese Domination of Table Tennis!!!

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I think Bundesliga is the closest in the western world.

However, its in German. No different to Chinese not speaking English.
I think there is going to be a bigger market for Chinese people listening to Chinese than people listening to German in the world.

I'm not too familiar with European sport culture, other than knowing some of the biggest clubs come out of England and Spain. Like the German football clubs are not so famous world wide imo.

So, i'm not sure if Germans have the best marketing penetration.
USA is obviously very successful with the NBA. That is a true domestic league where everyone in the world watches and hopes to join as a player one day.
I do feel, Europe does have an upper hand with its TT foundation. But could it make it a TT NBA? I sure hope so.
10 years ago, I was saying, we need pro league in the USA, and hopefully that can become the next NBA. With Major league Table Tennis starting, maybe we still need another 10 years for that to happen
You might be surprised but there is no English club ATM.

https://www.ettu.org/en/events/table-tennis-champions-league-men/history---archive/2022-2023/

I think only Germany and Poland got more than one club in, other than that its pretty diverce.
 
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A few things:

We all want table tennis to be even more popular. If that's case we need to bring English into its marketing. Yes I agree that most of Ma Long's fans speak Chinese only. Yes I agree that majority of Hiya Hayata's fans are Japanese speakers. However, in what language are we communicating here? English.

and how big is TTD? compared to any of the Japanese forums?
You want it in English, but sadly for you, there is actually very little info on English forums and over time, Dan always asked me to help post stuff here and give it some content. Else, I wouldn't even spend much time here.

TTD is already considered busy. Mytt and the other English forums are so quiet, it feels like a library. (and I have great sadness saying that)

I know Taiwanese people learning Korean, because they like K Pop
I know Chinese people learning English, because they want to go play pro in USA
I don't know much western people learning Chinese, because they want to excel in Table Tennis.

so, great we communicating in English here, it stilll means nothing, because Chinese and Japanese are the worlds 2 biggest markets. If it wasn't for subtitles, the English audience is really left out and if it wasn't for a few bilingual forum members, you would wish you speak Chinese.

Li Ning is a powerhouse sport brand in China. But don't think for a second they don't want their home grown athletes to be signed to Nike at some point (granted 10 years later, who knows where Nike will be but you get the point). Federer is making a load of money on his watch endorsement. Can you imagine if the Chinese or Japanese table tennis players can be marketed through English, how much more luxury goods endorsements they will get across the world?
Chinese super stars signed to American company?
Hm... I don't think that would happen, especially table tennis.
I think this is a total different issue here, maybe you don't know the background story, but its pretty political driven.

and just talking about table tennis market size... If you take our Germany. Do you know how small is the worlds table tennis market? if you want to talk about marketing, you first need to determine market size.
If the English speaking market is very big, then maybe, the world today will be more in favor to your wish. But, really, TT is very small in many English speaking countries.

As for making table tennis more popular, there is the traditional way of trying to do it through local schools; we call that the grassroot movement. Unfortunately many countries table tennis federation and ITTF do not do much to grow any of these grassroot movements at all.

It is not the job of ITTF or national bodies for grassroot. They must focus on international and national.
FIBA and USA Basketball for example, are not going to be labeled as "the party" that is responsible for putting up hoops in the parks. In fact, communities will put them up. There is a big difference here, and with my time serving different communities, it feels like many are waiting for ITTF or national associations to do something about their communities.... its going to be a long long wait.

Community needs to do they own backyard first. Hence that is why I encourage so many to start TT in schools, as that is grassroots.

With the advent of outdoor table tennis tables being set at various parks and the social media movements (like at Pongfinity and Adam's YouTube channels), I think there are many more ways to make table tennis popular. We just need to be flexible in our thinking.

I do feel TT is very late in using digital channels, lots of improvements is still achievable.
Start off with existing tt circles? I do think the medium age is too high of a number to bond with technology and many are slow to adapt.

I would even argue that we should go after the adults who are the "basement" players. They can also become the future of table tennis. Let us be frank. The kids don't have money to buy the equipments. And table tennis equipment can get pricey. If the adults/parents get hooked onto ping pong, they will be the consumer of the various equipments (and become addicted EJ's) and they in turn will get their kids and their kids' friends involved in the sport.

Fair point, so one has ITTF rule book and then you need a "i don't care about ITTF rulebook" and use what ever you want to play.
Amateur space should never be the same rules as professionals and this is big problem with umpire trained TT amateur open their months. They use the rule book way too much.
So this require a cultural shift first with TT people.

For example, I think it is cool to be playing with 38mm or 50+mm balls. Who said I can't put a blue and green rubber on and play 50+ with you? (Igor will say its wrong lol)


Table tennis, with its ability to be played at a small area and be a dominant indoor sport in parts of world where the winter is harsh, has a lot of potential.

schools has the space.
in rural south africa, a classroom can fit 1 to 2 tables.
it is the cheapest ball sport to start in a school.

I see you are from Canada, how many elementary schools is in your city (what city are you in) and how many of them have table tennis?
 
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Table tennis is unlike other sports in that you absolutely must start playing seriously at a young age. You also need to play 6-8 hours a day to reach your full potential. China has the best system for this and has lots of practice players to develop upcoming players.
Take 10,000 kids and force them to play 6 hours a day, then in 20 years you might be able to compete with China. Trying to find better athletes, however you want to define that nebulous term, is pointless without a great infrastructure,
this is no different to basketball or soccer.
you need to start young enough and work harder than your peers.

I do not think 6-8 is required, since, so many Europeans went through a non Chinese system or embedded a portion of Chinese system, but still, very reduced hours.

I think most people are thinking about beating China and that is the wrong start (even though this is a thread about Chinese domination).
I think people first need to make the sport big, and have fun. Winning or loosing is not important.
But it is the nature of kids wanting to win that will determine the success or not.

Having 10000 kids in the sport is not impossible, but why don't we?
USA is a club model. Europe is a club model
many times, successful sports starts in Schools, and here I am going again - schools.

many people play basketball in school, they are not looking to make it to the olympics. But the moment you have few here, and few there, then you will have a group that is ready for the next level/progression and that is how you start.
you get numbers by having it in schools, unless you are like Germany with something like 10s of thousand of TT clubs, but most of the world is the school model. China is a school model, Japan, Korea, Taiwan too.

Darryl and Sally of USA all come back to train in Taiwan. Since in the USA, there is so little players of the same age that is at their level or higher. the two of them have coaches/practice partners, but in Taiwan, they get 20 to 30 players to train with, and that is why China/Japan is successful, they train with all kinds of people and the players have much more experience when going onto the world stage.

Having the numbers is just so important in so many different levels. To me, this is way more important than 6-8 hours.
NZL almost beaten a Chinese in R128.
I think the moment where every single player at the world champs can push the Chinese from the 1st round, and pushing them to 7 games and they get tired going to the next round, The great wall will fall.
But right now, Chinese are having a walk in the park, while the opponents are knocking out each other first.
China needs a tough R128, R64, R32, R16 before going into the QF.
And maybe a draw against Chinese favour would work too
 
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You might be surprised but there is no English club ATM.

https://www.ettu.org/en/events/table-tennis-champions-league-men/history---archive/2022-2023/

I think only Germany and Poland got more than one club in, other than that its pretty diverce.
Where do the top English players play?

I think a problem with an all star european league is that then, that "super" team will be bored in they own domestic league.

I don't think there is enough top players that wants to play in Europe now (or enough money from the clubs) to have strong domestic leagues and then the winners play champ league, like soccer.

I have very little knowledge of European leagues, so the above is really just thinking out aloud
 
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Where do the top English players play?

I think a problem with an all star european league is that then, that "super" team will be bored in they own domestic league.

I don't think there is enough top players that wants to play in Europe now (or enough money from the clubs) to have strong domestic leagues and then the winners play champ league, like soccer.

I have very little knowledge of European leagues, so the above is really just thinking out aloud
Most higher level players earn money from private training. That's kind of the issue. I mean its good that they can make a living, but the player development could taper off.
 
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I don't think it's too different from Americans dominating basketball for example. Sure, it makes it more interesting to watch a game between two different nations, but personally I'd prefer seeing the most skilled players in competitions, and not the most diverse.
Are you sure ? at the last World Championships with FIBA rules and court size, the USA were only 7th ! Europe dominating with Spain winning the title and France being 3rd. In the Olympics, the US won again, but... not so much gap with France that time.

Most of the pundits there also agree that the european players becoming more and more prominant is a big concerns: the americans college players are no longer the alpha and omega for the draft, Nikola Jokic, Luka Doncic, Gianis Antetokounmpo, and soon Victor Wembanyama that is an "alien" according to Lebron James, cos' they've never seen someone THAT tall being able to play any position with so much fundamentals and skills. Bear in mind that the SA Spurs have produces the most complete gameplay in the 2014 finals with mostly south american and euro players: Ginobili, Parker, Diaw (who completely killed Lebron James on Game 3), Thiago Splitter,... and the Parker's sub that is also australian (don't remember the name though). They played an european style basketball that time.

It's like ice hokey, the Stanley Cup is the biggest competition worldwide, but are you sure Canada and the US are "by far" the best teams in the world nowadays ? again, if you look at european leagues, specially in Czech Republic, it's not that far from the Stanley Cup, and Finland is actually the reigning Olympic champion.

Having the best league and sport development is not at all the only thing to have in any sport. France produces the most international football players in world cups, since a while now, but they've only won 2 since 1998.

That's why what China does is stupid, and it's going to completely kill the interest other continents could have with table tennis that is a beautifull game.

You need to have rivalries between nations to interest the broadcasters worldwide, turn overs, upsets. Who cares about table tennis nowadays ? I mean: there's the Tour de France each year that is the biggest wordlwide event by audiences, then football is first each year, then the NBA, Volley Ball with turn overs and upsets in major competitions, tennis of course, and we should not forget cricket. Table tennis is only 7th, that might seem big because only 3 to 4 countries in Asia have access to it anyday of the week, China being the 2nd populated country after India now, but the fact is: TT does not draw interest outside of those few countries.

Cycling comes behind TT, but do you think that many people remembers the last 4 world champions ? there are many more sports fans that remembers the last 4 Tour de France winners. TT with WTT has no expertise in growing a top tier event, they have hired some people from football, but if China keeps on doing what they do, the experts won't be able to give any viable solution.

That's why I keep on saying that organizing WTTC in South Africa was a terrible decision. China might be a giant in TT, but it's a dwarf in sports in general, they only do things that gives them medals in the Olympics to reinforce their passive agressive manners, exactly as the US and Russia do.

But who do you think has much more results in team sports ? France, yeah, tiny country compared to them, but France is actually in the top 5 of handball, rugby, football, basketball, volleyball.

Also France does not do that good in the olympics compared to those big 3, but they get medals in an extended range and variety of sports, when you want to try ANY sport here, there's a club near you located at less than 1h drive, only american football, baseball and cricket are not easy to find.

Why do you think ASO is the 1st sport event company with FSE worldwide ? The sports expertise to organize events and to make them grow is actually in Europe.
 
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I find the western lettering on the back of the CNT jerseys interesting. This is some kind of low level marketing of the players / sport outside of the Chinese audience?
 
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I find the western lettering on the back of the CNT jerseys interesting. This is some kind of low level marketing of the players / sport outside of the Chinese audience?

For ITTF tournament, you either have the players number on the back of your shirt, or name and country in English.
It is actually just for the umpires to reckonize you.

You could be Ma Long, you also need to provide your accreditation to the player waiting area before going into the match hall.
 
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For ITTF tournament, you either have the players number on the back of your shirt, or name and country in English.
It is actually just for the umpires to reckonize you.

You could be Ma Long, you also need to provide your accreditation to the player waiting area before going into the match hall.
Thank you Tony!
I have thought the printing on the back of CNT (and Japan and Korea) shirts odd for the longest time, now I know why!
 
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For ITTF tournament, you either have the players number on the back of your shirt, or name and country in English.
It is actually just for the umpires to reckonize you.

You could be Ma Long, you also need to provide your accreditation to the player waiting area before going into the match hall.
No chance of me sneaking in then in my England shirt!!!! I'll just have to keep dreaming in playing for England 😂😂😂
 
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Thank you Tony!
I have thought the printing on the back of CNT (and Japan and Korea) shirts odd for the longest time, now I know why!
you are more than welcome.

There is actual rules on this part. Someone gave it to me once, when we had to plan sponsor logos and prints of names on the shirts. There is a total size for everything (including logos)

So, if required, one can get the info ITTF.
But then this is ITTF regulations for ITTF accredited tournaments.

If you just playing for fun, you can do what ever you want, as long as it isn't a bad word or foul language (which our forum is now corrupted with it, sadly)
 
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No chance of me sneaking in then in my England shirt!!!! I'll just have to keep dreaming in playing for England 😂😂😂

Well, either you go and change yourself to look like someone in an England shirt, or you start training hard to get your own England (pro) shirt.
Or nowadays, get rich and make your own tournament and you can walk in there with your own pre match ceremony, and then get the players shirt after the match
 
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Well, either you go and change yourself to look like someone in an England shirt, or you start training hard to get your own England (pro) shirt.
Or nowadays, get rich and make your own tournament and you can walk in there with your own pre match ceremony, and then get the players shirt after the match
Not sure I can look like any current England player as I would need to lose 5 stone!!! Plus I can't even make my own table tennis ball never mind organising my own tournament!!! I'd love it if we T.T.D world Tournament!!!! Any chance you can organise it Tony 😂😂😂😂
 
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Not sure I can look like any current England player as I would need to lose 5 stone!!! Plus I can't even make my own table tennis ball never mind organising my own tournament!!! I'd love it if we T.T.D world Tournament!!!! Any chance you can organise it Tony 😂😂😂😂
that is why I say "change", haha.

well, TTD world tournament is a good idea.
@Dan, what do you say?
 
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