TT11 Blind Rubber Test

[NextLevel]

Okay, so if I understood everything right:

You have a problem with my posts because I post them and not the content of my posts. You wrote as much.

Nobody else has a reported problem with my posts. You wrote as much.

Nobody else on the forum "calls out my brand" because they weren't around when I started posting ie: they haven't seen my match play and don't know that I'm a sub-1500 player on a good day. I'm just piecing this one together myself.

If the problem is not the content of my posts, and it's not me being a low level player evident by how many other low level players frequent the forum, the only thing that's left is that it's a me problem.

Now, from just a logistical standpoint, how do you think this can be solved?

I have a problem with the content of your posts because I am aware of your playing level and think that you talk about things in a way that would lead someone to think that you actually have expertise in playing with equipment when you very much don't. Every challenge I have made is in relation to how your playing experience or experience with equipment qualifies you to make statements about equipment, whether it is about your desire to be able to speak authoritatively on the physics of equipment etc. This is not unique to you and has been a pet peeve of mine for over 15 years of internet posting. After all, there have been other "equipment experts" I have had similar arguments with.

Maybe if you can find lots of "low level" players saying stuff like "Zyre is not made for 2000 level players" especially when they themselves have likely *never* played with Zyre, then you are in good company. On the flip side, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. As a reference point, here is a "Butterfly equipment expert" in the US. He put Zyre 03 on his forehand on a Harimoto SZLC. I am sure you know his rating based on your expertise (it is below 2000).

The simple resolution is to defend any claims you make as it is your right. Or to not do so and do whatever you want that is defensible. Again, this is not about moderation. Hopefully, you have cleared that part up. There is a broader moderation team you can also make complaints to if that is your main issue. Now I will let you make your decisions and move on.

 

[Archosaurus]

I have a problem with the content of your posts because I am aware of your playing level and think that you talk about things in a way that would lead someone to think that you actually have expertise in playing with equipment when you very much don't. Every challenge I have made is in relation to how your playing experience or experience with equipment qualifies you to make statements about equipment, whether it is about your desire to be able to speak authoritatively on the physics of equipment etc. This is not unique to you and has been a pet peeve of mine for over 15 years of internet posting. After all, there have been other "equipment experts" I have had similar arguments with.

Maybe if you can find lots of "low level" players saying stuff like "Zyre is not made for 2000 level players" especially when they themselves have likely *never* played with Zyre, then you are in good company. On the flip side, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. As a reference point, here is a "Butterfly equipment expert" in the US. He put Zyre 03 on his forehand on a Harimoto SZLC. I am sure you know his rating based on your expertise (it is below 2000).

The simple resolution is to defend any claims you make as it is your right. Or to not do so and do whatever you want that is defensible. Again, this is not about moderation. Hopefully, you have cleared that part up. There is a broader moderation team you can also make complaints to if that is your main issue. Now I will let you make your decisions and move on.

I can post more context about my play level in all of my posts if you think that would be more useful for other people and would mislead them less.

I'm not intending to be malicious here or trick people into giving a pass on equipment that they would enjoy or benefit from. I'm pretty sure you see me more often encouraging people to do what they want rather than stick to hard rules and myths.

That being said, in my experience, once people get a negative feeling about you, it's not going to change no matter how qualified you become. I've thoroughly tested this one LOL.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

Is it kosher to say that I think tt11 doesn't really enjoy butterfly equipment or am I stepping on toes

I think so and I also heavily disagree with the assessments of the two younger players, on any video of them basically.

 

[NextLevel]

I think so and I also heavily disagree with the assessments of the two younger players, on any video of them basically.

Yeah, they think Butterfly equipment is too fast and expensive and have a DHS Hurricane 3 and wooden blade bias. What I liked about this blind test was how the lefty (and this might never have happened unblinded) actually confessed to liking Dignics 05.

 

[zeio]

I like the attempt but sadly it doesn't provide any useful information. You can't confidently judge a rubber within minutes. First minute it's impossible to chop and the next it's really good?

Best way to find out if the setup suits you is to play matches imho. I want to see how you perform when under pressure and your subconscious kicks in.

I myself tried some other setups where sometimes it felt even better than my own setup when doing rythmic FHT vs block or just open up without moving. And then played much worse in a match losing all confidence.

Finding the suitable rubber is just not a matter of playing a few minutes and it takes weeks if not months to decide if you want to continue or not. But thats not what EJs want to hear.

It actually provides some useful (but skewed) insight regarding the weight. For the 4 specimens in this experiment, the blade with Bluestar A2 is the heaviest and the one with D05 is heavier than the one with Z03 (when it should be the other way as per Butterfly). Weight is an important performance indicator and so they should've weighed/noted the weight of each rubber right out of the package, the glue and the 4 complete rackets.

 

[Zwill]

It actually provides some useful (but skewed) insight regarding the weight. For the 4 specimens in this experiment, the blade with Bluestar A2 is the heaviest and the one with D05 is heavier than the one with Z03 (when it should be the other way as per Butterfly). Weight is an important performance indicator and so they should've weighed/noted the weight of each rubber right out of the package, the glue and the 4 complete rackets.

They only used 2 blades. D05 and Z03 are on the same and MXP and A2 on the other. They should have mixed them so the weight would be more similar. Of course also depends on the blade, but should have chosen 2 which are about the same weight.

 

[zeio]

Other than T05H weighing in at 50g, the other Butterfly rubbers weigh at or below 48g. G1 at 47g is the lightest ESN rubber, which used to be among the heaviest back in late 2000s to early 2010s. Karahashi Takkyu's rubbers in tokuatsu/extra thick/>=2.1 and TB ALC head size. Not explicitly stated but should be the same for the blogger's.

https://ameblo.jp/terus-diary/entry-12763162605.html

Plot
Karahashi Takkyu's assessment
X axis - spin
Y axis - speed

Table
Blogger's measurements in black and Karahashi Takkyu's in red
58g - H3 Turbo Blue and Bluegrip C1
56g - Omega VII China Ying
55g - Rakza Z Extra Hard
54g - Jekyll & Hyde Z52.5
52g - Ventus Extra, Jekyll & Hyde H52.5
51g - V22 Double Extra
50g - Rakza XX, Bluestorm Pro, Rising Dragon II, T05H, Hybrid K2 Pro, DNA Dragon Grip
49g - Genextion, Rasanter C53, Hybrid K3, Genextion V2C, Hybrid K3 Pro, V20 Double Extra, Rakza X
48g - D09C, D05, V15 Sticky, Rasanter R48, H8-80, DNA Platinum XH
47g - T05, Hammond Z2, D80, G09C, Triple Double Extra, G1, Z03
45g - T80, D64, Rozena
44g - T64
42g - Bryce Highspeed

---

ラバー重さ表
2025年8月8日
https://yoyogi.karahashi.com/blogs/news/ラバー重さ表-1

ラバーの重さ表を更新いたしました‼︎

全てティモボルALCに貼った後のカット後の重さになります‼︎

※個体差がございますので参考程度にどうぞ‼︎

 

[NextLevel]

They only used 2 blades. D05 and Z03 are on the same and MXP and A2 on the other. They should have mixed them so the weight would be more similar. Of course also depends on the blade, but should have chosen 2 which are about the same weight.

The blades were specified as being the same 90g weight. Doesn't affect your important point on the rubbers skewing balance. As @zeio said and I always point this out to ESN fans, Butterfly rubbers are lighter and generally have more durable performance than their ESN equivalents. The new Hugo forehand rubber in max can easily push your setup weight north of 200g if used on both sides. And no one lnows the durability of the booster, very different importance for a sponsored pro wearing out rubbers monthly and over the course of weeks vs an amateur who hopes to get 3 months but has to deal with booster evaporation.

 

[zeio]

They only used 2 blades. D05 and Z03 are on the same and MXP and A2 on the other. They should have mixed them so the weight would be more similar. Of course also depends on the blade, but should have chosen 2 which are about the same weight.

At a minimum (to keep down the complexity and time), they should've used 4 blades and 8 rubbers (2 identical rubbers for each blade) as it's been known the type of rubber on one side can affect the other side.

 

[Tembel]

I like the attempt but sadly it doesn't provide any useful information. You can't confidently judge a rubber within minutes. First minute it's impossible to chop and the next it's really good?

Best way to find out if the setup suits you is to play matches imho. I want to see how you perform when under pressure and your subconscious kicks in.

I myself tried some other setups where sometimes it felt even better than my own setup when doing rythmic FHT vs block or just open up without moving. And then played much worse in a match losing all confidence.

Finding the suitable rubber is just not a matter of playing a few minutes and it takes weeks if not months to decide if you want to continue or not. But thats not what EJs want to hear.

I agree that it is difficult to assess from just a couple of minutes if the rubber is "good" or fits ones playing style. However, I found it interesting to see and hear their observations regarding arc, speed and ease of use(clearly the butterfly rubbers took more effort to activate). No one liked Dignics 05, except for blocking. I remember similar comments on this forum when that rubber was first released.

 

[NextLevel]

I agree that it is difficult to assess from just a couple of minutes if the rubber is "good" or fits ones playing style. However, I found it interesting to see and hear their observations regarding arc, speed and ease of use(clearly the butterfly rubbers took more effort to activate). No one liked Dignics 05, except for blocking. I remember similar comments on this forum when that rubber was first released.

Thats not true at all, the lefty liked Dignics 05 a lot especially for backhand but also for forehand. Zyre was the rubber that no one took a special liking to, but for me, knowing how much of an acquired taste Zyre can be, this is not unusual. Zyre also shines best in counterlooping and struggles relatively to many rubbers in its class in opening and the only one who reaally tried this feature was the defender lol.

 

[zeio]

Thats not true at all, the lefty liked Dignics 05 a lot especially for backhand but also for forehand. Zyre was the rubber that no one took a special liking to, but for me, know how much of an acquired taste Zyre can be, this is not unusual. Zyre also shines best in counterlooping and struggles relatively to many rubbers in its class in opening and the only one who reaally tried this feature was the defender lol.

Hashimoto-sensei:

 

[KM1976]

I think that all the reviews should be considered more as a personal opinion with the tag "Your mileage may vary". I had a completely different impression of Zyre rubber when I tried it on a Viscaria. I tend to like it better than Tenergy 05 based on my past usage of Tenergy.

 

[Zwill]

At a minimum (to keep down the complexity and time), they should've used 4 blades and 8 rubbers (2 identical rubbers for each blade) as it's been known the type of rubber on one side can affect the other side.

That would have been the best, but it's more cost too. If they at least mix one ESN with one Butterfly rubber it would have already been better than what they did.

 

[NextLevel]

I think that all the reviews should be considered more as a personal opinion with the tag "Your mileage may vary". I had a completely different impression of Zyre rubber when I tried it on a Viscaria. I tend to like it better than Tenergy 05 based on my past usage of Tenergy.

Did you try it extensively or just a few loops?

 

[sebi]

I don't think the review was unbiased. In every review they tend to be negativ to Butterfly products. I can't prove anything, but was the samething when they reviewed the D09c against other rubbers despite looking the best with it.


Zyre you can't test in a view minutes. It's a totaly different rubber to anything else.

But i apreciate them trying.

 

[Tembel]

Thats not true at all, the lefty liked Dignics 05 a lot especially for backhand but also for forehand. Zyre was the rubber that no one took a special liking to, but for me, knowing how much of an acquired taste Zyre can be, this is not unusual. Zyre also shines best in counterlooping and struggles relatively to many rubbers in its class in opening and the only one who reaally tried this feature was the defender lol.

I stand corrected. The lefty did actually like D05, but not the others.

 

[Zezima]

I don't think the review was unbiased. In every review they tend to be negativ to Butterfly products. I can't prove anything, but was the samething when they reviewed the D09c against other rubbers despite looking the best with it.


Zyre you can't test in a view minutes. It's a totaly different rubber to anything else.

But i apreciate them trying.

I tried zyre03 on a carbon blade but it wasn't any faster or uncontrollable compared to my setup. Also feeling wise it wasn't a oh wow moment. It does give a unique sound but that might be the blade idk.

 

[nompute]

FWIW I just tried Zyre 2.7 on my forehand and as a ~1400-1500 level player it didn’t feel crazy or particularly difficult to use, and this was on a thin CNF blade (5.5mm, maple surface plies, so on the crisp side). I usually use 09c but got a deal on the Zyre and figured why the heck not.

I didn’t have issues with open ups compared to 09c but it’s been a minute since i’ve had a fresh sheet. Looping backspin on the descent was consistently spinnier than it appeared based on the reactions of my playing partners. Counterplay feels really good. There’s definitely some kind of adjustment that needs to happen as the sponge engagement wasn’t consistent for me. I actually had better success with low/medium power.

 

[piligrim]

I stand corrected. The lefty did actually like D05, but not the others.

So maybe D05 good only for lefties