What innerforce to go for?

[hazzaa96]

Hi,

so i have been using the common blades in terms of construction which are (TBS, TB ALC, Viscaria, ZJK ALC).

I have been recomended to try a innerforce style blade as people who know me reckons its will suit my game, as well as a lot more people are moving over to Innerforce type blades.

My question is what one do i go for?

From doing some research im swaying towards a Ovtcharov Innerforce alc but would like to know peoples opinions on this blade compared to other innerforces as well as the orginal blades i have been using.

I will be using Dignics 09c on my FH and potentailly Victas v15 limber for my BH

Also bit random but is the flared handle comfortable and what is it like especially for blocking?

Thanks for any replies in advance

 

[TensorBackhand]

Hi,

so i have been using the common blades in terms of construction which are (TBS, TB ALC, Viscaria, ZJK ALC).

I have been recomended to try a innerforce style blade as people who know me reckons its will suit my game, as well as a lot more people are moving over to Innerforce type blades.

My question is what one do i go for?

From doing some research im swaying towards a Ovtcharov Innerforce alc but would like to know peoples opinions on this blade compared to other innerforces as well as the orginal blades i have been using.

I will be using Dignics 09c on my FH and potentailly Victas v15 limber for my BH

Also bit random but is the flared handle comfortable and what is it like especially for blocking?

Thanks for any replies in advance

I would highly recommend the Fang Bo Carbon from DHS. Very balanced offensive blade that does everything well. Of course Long 5 is extremely popular and a obvious choice as well. If you want to stick with BTY, then Harimoto ALC.

 

[lodro]

There is no way you will be able to make a proper decision from
what will be dished up here. Best is to try what your mates in the club are using.
Alternatively buy a real cheapy and get the feel of Innerlayers.
Here is an example :

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002570685680.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.1c98yQJIyQJIhn&gps-id=pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.281175.0&scm_id=1007.40050.281175.0&scm-url=1007.40050.281175.0&pvid=b4af2142-82f9-4c19-b8bf-1466369d125f&_t=gps-id:pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:b4af2142-82f9-4c19-b8bf-1466369d125f,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238108%231977&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21NZD%2149.96%2142.47%21%21%21%21%21%402103200616908610537931302ed9ba%2112000022122590202%21rec%21NZ%21139609019

These blades will give you an idea and only cost a few dollars.

 

[ben1229]

Seems like your lvl pretty high, so just buy one you can feel that will be your blade, go to local store and choose. Don't buy online, otherwise you know someone can choose the weight you want. And they know you and can test the blade for you.

 

[NextLevel]

@NDH.

 

[ejprinz]

I've the following inner carbon blades:

Limba top layer:
* DHS Fang Bo B2: 91.9g, 1320Hz, 6.0mm
* DHS Fang Bo B2X: 91.3g, 1442Hz. 6.1mm. Faster than B2.
- There is a review at this link, I disagree with the B2X being easier to handle, it is faster than the B2, and I think since that review the handles are now the same between the blades and Fang Bo's picture is missing from the B2.

* Yinhe Pro-05: KLC carbon. Also very nice. 1356Hz, 85.0g, 5.9mm, handle center 27.1mm/23.7mm. Plays similarly to DHS B2. All my Yinhe blades had really nice workmanship and were very reproducible for frequency.

Koto top layer:
* Yinhe Pro Feeling: 1399 Hz (also after varnishing), 88g, 5.8mm. Harder feeling, less dwell time. Good control. No longer available. Replaced by 970xx-A I think:
* Yinhe 970xx-A: 1291 Hz 5.8mm-thick, 89g, (Koto + Ayous? + ALC + Ayous? + ALC + Ayous? + Koto).

Hinoki top layer:
* Sanwei HC Speed Light: (5+2 ply (hinoki, kiri, ALC, kiri, ALC, kiri, hinoki). Handle 24.1mm, 1571 Hz, 82g. Interestingly, identical frequency to Yinhe T-7S despite “innerforce” build (old Hinoki/Kiri vs. Thick Cypress external)

The top layer and the frequency give a good indication on how they play. I like Limba top best, then Hinoki, then Koto. For me (USATT 1400) 1440Hz was too much to handle in tournaments with Tensor rubbers (FastArc G-1 or Yinhe Moon Medium Sponge). I switched to non-boosted DHS Hurricane 3 Neo lately and that's slower than e.g. FastArc G-1. I also have the Pro-01 (external ALC / Koto top) and it feels more "crispy", lower dwell time. Too fast for me with tensor rubbers.

I am converting to long pips right now on a Victas Swat (1216Hz, 86.12g, 6.1mm), if I wanted to switch to faster I would go to the Yinhe Pro-05. Great workmanship, available from AliExpress shops for $60-70.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I've the following inner carbon blades:

Limba top layer:
* DHS Fang Bo B2: 91.9g, 1320Hz, 6.0mm
* DHS Fang Bo B2X: 91.3g, 1442Hz. 6.1mm. Faster than B2.
- There is a review at this link, I disagree with the B2X being easier to handle, it is faster than the B2, and I think since that review the handles are now the same between the blades and Fang Bo's picture is missing from the B2.

* Yinhe Pro-05: KLC carbon. Also very nice. 1356Hz, 85.0g, 5.9mm, handle center 27.1mm/23.7mm. Plays similarly to DHS B2. All my Yinhe blades had really nice workmanship and were very reproducible for frequency.

Koto top layer:
* Yinhe Pro Feeling: 1399 Hz (also after varnishing), 88g, 5.8mm. Harder feeling, less dwell time. Good control. No longer available. Replaced by 970xx-A I think:
* Yinhe 970xx-A: 1291 Hz 5.8mm-thick, 89g, (Koto + Ayous? + ALC + Ayous? + ALC + Ayous? + Koto).

Hinoki top layer:
* Sanwei HC Speed Light: (5+2 ply (hinoki, kiri, ALC, kiri, ALC, kiri, hinoki). Handle 24.1mm, 1571 Hz, 82g. Interestingly, identical frequency to Yinhe T-7S despite “innerforce” build (old Hinoki/Kiri vs. Thick Cypress external)

The top layer and the frequency give a good indication on how they play. I like Limba top best, then Hinoki, then Koto. For me (USATT 1400) 1440Hz was too much to handle in tournaments with Tensor rubbers (FastArc G-1 or Yinhe Moon Medium Sponge). I switched to non-boosted DHS Hurricane 3 Neo lately and that's slower than e.g. FastArc G-1. I also have the Pro-01 (external ALC / Koto top) and it feels more "crispy", lower dwell time. Too fast for me with tensor rubbers.

I am converting to long pips right now on a Victas Swat (1216Hz, 86.12g, 6.1mm), if I wanted to switch to faster I would go to the Yinhe Pro-05. Great workmanship, available from AliExpress shops for $60-70.

Can you compare the 970xx-A to the DHS B2? Is there really a lot less dwell time?

Is there noticeably more power or speed from the Koto surface?

I find that the B2 really does everything well. Loops well, punches well, blocks well, very balanced. Does the simple changing the surface from limba to Koto change all that much?

 

[lodro]

Is there noticeably more power or speed from the Koto surface?

NO !

 

[TensorBackhand]

NO !

You tried both?

 

[lodro]

You tried both?

Indeed i have.
And things are much more complicated than the simple choice of the outer layer of wood. The is the second layer, the inner layer, the thicknesses of the different layers etc etc .

Remember the discussions that were had re pure carbon outer layer ?
Some thought it would be un- playable. Again, it is more complicated than that. It is for this reason I made this quick mock up of the hammer, where one rubber is on wood and the other on a 3mm thick solid carbon plate ----and even this is still playable.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Indeed i have.
And things are much more complicated than the simple choice of the outer layer of wood. The is the second layer, the inner layer, the thicknesses of the different layers etc etc .

Remember the discussions that were had re pure carbon outer layer ?
Some thought it would be un- playable. Again, it is more complicated than that. It is for this reason I made this quick mock up of the hammer, where one rubber is on wood and the other on a 3mm thick solid carbon plate ----and even this is still playable.
View attachment 26131

So how are they different from each other? Or are they essentially very close to each other?

 

[lodro]

So how are they different from each other? Or are they essentially very close to each other?

hardly any difference at all..................and yes, nobody was more surprised than myself

 

[TensorBackhand]

I've the following inner carbon blades:

Limba top layer:
* DHS Fang Bo B2: 91.9g, 1320Hz, 6.0mm
* DHS Fang Bo B2X: 91.3g, 1442Hz. 6.1mm. Faster than B2.
- There is a review at this link, I disagree with the B2X being easier to handle, it is faster than the B2, and I think since that review the handles are now the same between the blades and Fang Bo's picture is missing from the B2.

* Yinhe Pro-05: KLC carbon. Also very nice. 1356Hz, 85.0g, 5.9mm, handle center 27.1mm/23.7mm. Plays similarly to DHS B2. All my Yinhe blades had really nice workmanship and were very reproducible for frequency.

Koto top layer:
* Yinhe Pro Feeling: 1399 Hz (also after varnishing), 88g, 5.8mm. Harder feeling, less dwell time. Good control. No longer available. Replaced by 970xx-A I think:
* Yinhe 970xx-A: 1291 Hz 5.8mm-thick, 89g, (Koto + Ayous? + ALC + Ayous? + ALC + Ayous? + Koto).

Hinoki top layer:
* Sanwei HC Speed Light: (5+2 ply (hinoki, kiri, ALC, kiri, ALC, kiri, hinoki). Handle 24.1mm, 1571 Hz, 82g. Interestingly, identical frequency to Yinhe T-7S despite “innerforce” build (old Hinoki/Kiri vs. Thick Cypress external)

The top layer and the frequency give a good indication on how they play. I like Limba top best, then Hinoki, then Koto. For me (USATT 1400) 1440Hz was too much to handle in tournaments with Tensor rubbers (FastArc G-1 or Yinhe Moon Medium Sponge). I switched to non-boosted DHS Hurricane 3 Neo lately and that's slower than e.g. FastArc G-1. I also have the Pro-01 (external ALC / Koto top) and it feels more "crispy", lower dwell time. Too fast for me with tensor rubbers.

I am converting to long pips right now on a Victas Swat (1216Hz, 86.12g, 6.1mm), if I wanted to switch to faster I would go to the Yinhe Pro-05. Great workmanship, available from AliExpress shops for $60-70.

Why does the 970xx have the lowest frequency? Shouldnt the Koto surface make it harder with higher frequency?

 

[lodro]

Why does the 970xx have the lowest frequency? Shouldnt the Koto surface make it harder with higher frequency?

therein lay some of the problem i tried so hard to explain just a minute ago.
When one measures the frequency of a blade one measures the whole blade not just the outer layer

 

[NDH]

Hi,

so i have been using the common blades in terms of construction which are (TBS, TB ALC, Viscaria, ZJK ALC).

I have been recomended to try a innerforce style blade as people who know me reckons its will suit my game, as well as a lot more people are moving over to Innerforce type blades.

My question is what one do i go for?

From doing some research im swaying towards a Ovtcharov Innerforce alc but would like to know peoples opinions on this blade compared to other innerforces as well as the orginal blades i have been using.

I will be using Dignics 09c on my FH and potentailly Victas v15 limber for my BH

Also bit random but is the flared handle comfortable and what is it like especially for blocking?

Thanks for any replies in advance

Hey Hazza,

I personally don't buy into the level of detail that others do when it comes to picking the blade.

I understand that different types of wood will give a different feeling, but at the same time, I also know the design of the handle gives me more emotion when using the blade!

So, question back to you...... Why are you looking to change?

Are you following my footsteps and thinking that an Innerforce offers more control than the Outer carbon blades, but provide the same level of power/speed?

At least, that's how I justified buying a new blade 😅

The Ovtcharov is about as close to an Outer carbon blade as I've tried (it's my current blade of choice).

I really don't see any great advantage over the TB ALC for 99.9999% of players - They are just too similar.

If you wanted to take a noticeable drop in speed from the Outer carbon blades (but still have a fast blade), I'd go for the Harimoto ALC.

I found that was a blocking machine and really controlled, whilst still having plenty of speed when you needed it.

Also, you get extra volume on your "CHO's", which is an added bonus

But when I say "noticeable drop in speed", please don't think it's slow. All I mean is that there is a very very small noticeable feeling that it's not quite as fast as the TB ALC for example - Something you don't really get with the Ovtcharov.

As for the Flared handle, I hate it in general anyway - Always straight for me, but this is personal preference and I don't think there is enough in it to change your handle based on certain shots.

 

[NextLevel]

Hey Hazza,

I personally don't buy into the level of detail that others do when it comes to picking the blade.

I understand that different types of wood will give a different feeling, but at the same time, I also know the design of the handle gives me more emotion when using the blade!

So, question back to you...... Why are you looking to change?

Are you following my footsteps and thinking that an Innerforce offers more control than the Outer carbon blades, but provide the same level of power/speed?

At least, that's how I justified buying a new blade 😅

The Ovtcharov is about as close to an Outer carbon blade as I've tried (it's my current blade of choice).

I really don't see any great advantage over the TB ALC for 99.9999% of players - They are just too similar.

If you wanted to take a noticeable drop in speed from the Outer carbon blades (but still have a fast blade), I'd go for the Harimoto ALC.

I found that was a blocking machine and really controlled, whilst still having plenty of speed when you needed it.

Also, you get extra volume on your "CHO's", which is an added bonus

But when I say "noticeable drop in speed", please don't think it's slow. All I mean is that there is a very very small noticeable feeling that it's not quite as fast as the TB ALC for example - Something you don't really get with the Ovtcharov.

As for the Flared handle, I hate it in general anyway - Always straight for me, but this is personal preference and I don't think there is enough in it to change your handle based on certain shots.

Thanks for posting, I thought your perspective that the Dima blade is not as innerforce as most innerforce blades was a perspective worth sharing, I actually considered recommending the Cybershape or Stiga Inspira as Koto innercarbon though not ALC. But in many ways the Cybershape is designed for the kind of player that would like a Viscaria so I am not entirely sure it aolves the OP problem. And the blade is much faster than it usually gets credit for being

 

[hazzaa96]

Hey Hazza,

I personally don't buy into the level of detail that others do when it comes to picking the blade.

I understand that different types of wood will give a different feeling, but at the same time, I also know the design of the handle gives me more emotion when using the blade!

So, question back to you...... Why are you looking to change?

Are you following my footsteps and thinking that an Innerforce offers more control than the Outer carbon blades, but provide the same level of power/speed?

At least, that's how I justified buying a new blade 😅

The Ovtcharov is about as close to an Outer carbon blade as I've tried (it's my current blade of choice).

I really don't see any great advantage over the TB ALC for 99.9999% of players - They are just too similar.

If you wanted to take a noticeable drop in speed from the Outer carbon blades (but still have a fast blade), I'd go for the Harimoto ALC.

I found that was a blocking machine and really controlled, whilst still having plenty of speed when you needed it.

Also, you get extra volume on your "CHO's", which is an added bonus

But when I say "noticeable drop in speed", please don't think it's slow. All I mean is that there is a very very small noticeable feeling that it's not quite as fast as the TB ALC for example - Something you don't really get with the Ovtcharov.

As for the Flared handle, I hate it in general anyway - Always straight for me, but this is personal preference and I don't think there is enough in it to change your handle based on certain shots.

Hi NDH,

Thanks for the reply. Exactly what you said in regards to why I’m thinking of changing over to innerforce blades as it supposedly has more control due to the structure.

I had a friend who worked for Bribar table tennis a few years back which you may know being from the UK and he has tried all different rubbers and blades. He was the one who thinks a Innerforce style blade will suit my game.

I still want a good amount of speed in my game though. Can I ask then what are the small differences ( if any) between the Ovtcharov ALC and Boll ALC?

Reason why I am leaning more over to the Ovtcharov alc over the Harimoto for example is:

1. Apparently the Harimoto is ridiculously heavy (I Don’t like a too heavy blade 89g being the heaviest I have used)

2. The Flared handle I have heard is small

3. The thing that stood out to me with the Ovtcharov alc compared to other butterfly blades is the bigger head size and thicker core. This mean sweet spot is a little bit bigger with less margin for error.

Thanks

Harry

 

[NDH]

Hi NDH,

Thanks for the reply. Exactly what you said in regards to why I’m thinking of changing over to innerforce blades as it supposedly has more control due to the structure.

I had a friend who worked for Bribar table tennis a few years back which you may know being from the UK and he has tried all different rubbers and blades. He was the one who thinks a Innerforce style blade will suit my game.

I still want a good amount of speed in my game though. Can I ask then what are the small differences ( if any) between the Ovtcharov ALC and Boll ALC?

Reason why I am leaning more over to the Ovtcharov alc over the Harimoto for example is:

1. Apparently the Harimoto is ridiculously heavy (I Don’t like a too heavy blade 89g being the heaviest I have used)

2. The Flared handle I have heard is small

3. The thing that stood out to me with the Ovtcharov alc compared to other butterfly blades is the bigger head size and thicker core. This mean sweet spot is a little bit bigger with less margin for error.

Thanks

Harry

I didn't notice too much difference between the Harimoto and Ovtcharov (from a weight POV) - But I'm not massively sensitive to that, and I'm also a large human...... 😂

What level do you play at in the UK?

My feeling would be that you may benefit from the Innerforce ALC Layer S which is slightly lighter than the others if that's what you need.

It'll also be a touch slower and more controlled (still an attacking blade), which will benefit all levels of players, but especially those who aren't at the very top of the game.

Regarding the Ovtcharov, I would honestly be pushing it to say it was X or Y better than a TB ALC.

I'd say the TB ALC is a touch quicker on passive strokes, more crisp in the block and just a bit sharper.

The Ovtcharov ALC is nice to block with whilst still giving you plenty of speed when you need it.

My general rule is..... Use the *slowest* equipment you can.

For most people, control and spin will beat outright speed across a best of 5 match 99 times out of 100.

But if I'm being real..... I use the blades because I like the design, or the player - Providing it fits closely to what I need.

I could use an Innerforce, or a TB ALC and the difference in my results would be negligible.

So I wouldn't get the Ovtcharov because you want to take a meaningful step down in speed from the TB ALC - I think you'll find it just as quick most of the time.

But.... Sometimes, you might find that a change in blade (even to a very similar one) can be enough of a difference to make a positive change.

Slightly bigger head (negligible), and depending on what weight blade you get, perhaps it'll be enough for you!

 

[Lazer]

The ALC.S has a tiny handle, but mine is a hefty 93 grams not light at all...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[NDH]

The ALC.S has a tiny handle, but mine is a hefty 93 grams not light at all...

Cheers
L-zr

Did you ask for a heavy one or is that what you were sent?

The blurb says:

Based on the current Innerforce Layer ALC but with a thinner core. Reduced weight, lower vibration and a softer touch. Suitable for attacking players with the emphasis on spin.

Tees Sport have the weight down at 82 grams on average.