what is the difference between hardness/softness and thick/thin in table tennis

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I'm new to these equipments and got confuse about hardness/softness and thickness/thin (like 1.5mm to 2.0 or max). I looked at tabletennis 11 and not all their rubbers have that information and sometimes the rubbers will indicated hard or soft but doesn't say anything about thick or thin or when it says thick/thin but doesn't say hard or soft. Can someone with the knowledge please explain the differences?

thanks,
 
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Welcome to the world of equipment

Thin/thick etc I don't normally use, but it will refer to the thickness of the sponge (1.5mm/2.0mm/max etc).
The law of table tennis restricts rubbers (plus sponge) to be a max of 4mm.
The topsheet (rubber surface) would be some size and the the sponge thickness would be the other part. So say a Max sponge rubber would likely just be around 4mm (ie 2.2mm sponge + 1.8mm top sheet)

Then the soft, medium, hard would refer to the hardness of the sponge. Some using "numbers", some uses "text"

IE Stiga Mantra H (Hard) or Mantra M (Medium) or Mantra S (Soft)
IE Gewo Nexxus 48 (Hard) or Nexxus 45 (Medium)
IE Butterfly Tenergy 05 Hard (Hard) or Tenergy 05 (Medium) or Tenergy 05FX (Soft)

There is a scale for the measurements, known as Shore A, B, C, D, O
I think the below 2 can pretty much sum it up for you.

RadVeOhTaAU.jpg


Rubber-Hardness.jpg.webp
 
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Welcome to the world of equipment

Thin/thick etc I don't normally use, but it will refer to the thickness of the sponge (1.5mm/2.0mm/max etc).
The law of table tennis restricts rubbers (plus sponge) to be a max of 4mm.
The topsheet (rubber surface) would be some size and the the sponge thickness would be the other part. So say a Max sponge rubber would likely just be around 4mm

Then the soft, medium, hard would refer to the hardness of the sponge. Some using "numbers", some uses "text"

IE Stiga Mantra H (Hard) or Mantra M (Medium) or Mantra S (Soft)
IE Gewo Nexxus 48 (Hard) or Nexxus 43 (Medium Soft)
Hi, thank you for a quick response. Some of those rubbers you've mentioned indicated teh H and S for Hard and soft but what about some of the rubbers like Nittaku Fastarc G-1 and many of them doesn't say anything about hardness/soft, how can you tell whether it is hard/soft? Thanks
 
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As for some unique characteristics of the hard and soft sponge separately.

The soft sponges are usually easier to use. They don't require fast swings and movements to get great spin. However, they tend to "bottom out" easily, meaning they have a great limitation over the hard sponges. So, the softer ones are easier to use, but has more limited opportunities in terms of speed and spin. These are usually better for starter players with less experience.
The hard sponges are harder to use/activate, because they require faster movements. However, they don't bottom out easily and they are able to produce greater spin and speed over their soft mates with correct technique of course. You have more possibilities with harder sponges. This is better for experienced and developped players.

Just some interesting things to know. ;)
 
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Hi, thank you for a quick response. Some of those rubbers you've mentioned indicated teh H and S for Hard and soft but what about some of the rubbers like Nittaku Fastarc G-1 and many of them doesn't say anything about hardness/soft, how can you tell whether it is hard/soft? Thanks
A rubber's hardness is relative, what can be considered as hard or soft? The G1 is a medium hard rubber.
 
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Hi, thank you for a quick response. Some of those rubbers you've mentioned indicated teh H and S for Hard and soft but what about some of the rubbers like Nittaku Fastarc G-1 and many of them doesn't say anything about hardness/soft, how can you tell whether it is hard/soft? Thanks

You need to find the measurement in "degrees"
For example, G-1 is 37.5 or 47.5, which is considered Medium-Hard.
So if you were to look at TT sellers sites, they could list the "degrees" or you would need to go the manufactures website to find it.

Basically Butterfly and DHS uses Shore A while the rest uses Shore O

F-G1%2003.jpg
 
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says Table tennis clown
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As for some unique characteristics of the hard and soft sponge separately.

The soft sponges are usually easier to use. They don't require fast swings and movements to get great spin. However, they tend to "bottom out" easily, meaning they have a great limitation over the hard sponges. So, the softer ones are easier to use, but has more limited opportunities in terms of speed and spin. These are usually better for starter players with less experience.
The hard sponges are harder to use/activate, because they require faster movements. However, they don't bottom out easily and they are able to produce greater spin and speed over their soft mates with correct technique of course. You have more possibilities with harder sponges. This is better for experienced and developped players.

Just some interesting things to know. ;)
Disagree.
Soft sponges are not good for beginners because beginners do not have the accuracy required to make precise and controlled shots.
Also for beginners speed is not necessarily a prime requirement .
 
says Win by Spin!
says Win by Spin!
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Disagree.
Soft sponges are not good for beginners because beginners do not have the accuracy required to make precise and controlled shots.
Also for beginners speed is not necessarily a prime requirement .
The opinions are divided, someone says A and someone says B. Hard sponges are not good for them either then, as they don't have the appropriate movement to activate them enough. Then, what is better?
 
says Table tennis clown
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The opinions are divided, someone says A and someone says B. Hard sponges are not good for them either then, as they don't have the appropriate movement to activate them enough. Then, what is better?
beginners do not "activate", they do not have these kind of shots yet. They are happy to be able to hit the incoming ball and return it back, hopefully over the net and on to the table. 😂
 
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says Fair Play first
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In expert opinion, long pips inward of soft rubber material will give you much more spin, same is the thin outer sheet. Just view to 729 Dragon PRO, type L. It is the best spinny specie since rigged with soft -long pimps.

Be happy.

Scbb592a087be48c38b37df8f4b3d4adfn.png
 
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says Table tennis clown
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In expert opinion, long pips inward of soft rubber material will give you much more spin, same is the thin outer sheet. Just view to 729 Dragon PRO, type L. It is the best spinny specie since rigged with soft -long pimps.

Be happy.
See, i told you, for every expert-opinion there are at least 1000 opposing opinion.
It is the same with the Hurricane3 lots of people dismiss them as being ""SLOW"" 😁
 
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I shake my head.
Those durometer readdings are only meaningful in a relative way.
How does a durometer reading relate the spin or speed after impact?
What is more important is the spring constant and coefficient of restitution.

If the ball impacts the paddle at a relative speed of 10 m/s. How far will it penetrate into the rubber?
What is the force of impact?
Come on Nextlexvel. Show us your engineering ability. Make it simple. Lets assume the impact is a flat hit and the ball incoming ball has no spin.
Nextleve. Show us you know anything about the physics of TT.
 
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says Table tennis clown
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I shake my head.
Those durometer readdings are only meaningful in a relative way.
How does a durometer reading relate the spin or speed after impact?
What is more important is the spring constant and coefficient of restitution.

If the ball impacts the paddle at a relative speed of 10 m/s. How far will it penetrate into the rubber?
What is the force of impact?
Come on Nextlexvel. Show us your engineering ability. Make it simple. Lets assume the impact is a flat hit and the ball incoming ball has no spin.
Nextleve. Show us you know anything about the physics of TT.
indeed durometer readings tell us very little. Even a no-spin ball hit with a flat paddle will show lots different results from sponge to sponge. We can even add Igor's "bouncy-pendle-meter" but still any figures so acquired will not give us parameters that could make our purchasing decisions easier.
 
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I'm new to these equipments and got confuse about hardness/softness and thickness/thin (like 1.5mm to 2.0 or max). I looked at tabletennis 11 and not all their rubbers have that information and sometimes the rubbers will indicated hard or soft but doesn't say anything about thick or thin or when it says thick/thin but doesn't say hard or soft. Can someone with the knowledge please explain the differences?

thanks,
Thin sponge be like:
IMG_5645.jpeg


Thick sponge be like:
IMG_5644.jpeg
 
says Buttefly Forever!!!
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To end confusion:
Noobs use Butterfly Rozena, when gets better, use Nittaku Fastarc G1. And when you are better, you need not ask questions anymore, you able to make informed choice.

: Rozena ===> G1 ===> your own choice.

p/s

1. Rozena = middle all you can do rubber for noobies.
2. G1 = middle all you can do rubber for not so noobies.
 
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I'm new to these equipments and got confuse about hardness/softness and thickness/thin (like 1.5mm to 2.0 or max). I looked at tabletennis 11 and not all their rubbers have that information and sometimes the rubbers will indicated hard or soft but doesn't say anything about thick or thin or when it says thick/thin but doesn't say hard or soft. Can someone with the knowledge please explain the differences?

thanks,

Looking at OP and the follow up questions ask
I think it is safe to say, this thread has now been derailed
 
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Hardness tends to refer to the sponge. But it can also refer to pip configuration as some pip configurations even on softer sponge feel "harder". Fastarc G1 and C1 both have a relatively hard pip configuration but C1 has a medium sponge while G1 has a medium hard sponge.

Here is the classic video that discusses sponge hardness and pip configuration for the Tenergy series.


You won't find this kind of information available for most rubbers but it can help you understand how rubbers work if you have mature technique.
 
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