Why are these two choppers so successful?

[allencorn]

Sato (#80) and Hashimoto (#34) are far from the elite level of singles play of the top ten women, but as a doubles team they have been taking down a lot of good players/teams. What is it about doubles that makes their chopping more successful than it is in singles, or is it just they make such a good team regardless of their style?

They are sure a breath of fresh air to watch.

 

[zeio]

Sato was top 10 back in 3/2017-4/2017 (as high as 9). Hashimoto was top 20 back in 5/2017-11/2017 (as high as 13). They both dropped significantly starting from 1/2018 when the new WR system kicked in.

Sato/Hashimoto are the WTTC 2019 WD bronze medalists. Sato beat Ding Ning twice in 2019.

Both of them are now in their prime age-wise so it's not surprising.

卓レポ名勝負セレクション｜ 早田・伊藤 対 橋本／佐藤（世界卓球2019ブダペスト 女子ダブルス準決勝）
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np4UkXEDRnk

Ding Ning vs Sato Hitomi | 2019 ITTF Japan Open Highlights (R16)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgT-hph9zW0
Ding Ning vs Hitomi Sato | 2019 ITTF World Tour Grand Finals Highlights (R16)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOBJzgapRJM

 

[allencorn]

Thanks for the background. So they are probably just that good and it s not necessarily their style. Too bad they are never in the discussion of the top women in Japan, or overall for that matter, as some of the other top players seem to struggle a bit playing choppers.

 

[lodro]

some of the other top players seem to struggle a bit playing choppers.

Indeed, and of course the opposition was quite young and lacked a bit of experience playing against choppers and maybe a little bit of patience. Sato is may favorite female defender.

 

[zeio]

A recent Tieba thread on Hashimoto's stats in the past few years. The only non-teammate she lost to in 2022 was HZJ and her win rate against non-teammates in 2024 is currently 100%.
桥本帆乃香才是对中国威胁最大的女将吧，什么张本美和往后靠一靠 (Hashimoto Honoka is the top JNT woman who poses the greatest threat to China. Harimoto Miwa et al. should step back)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9288059584

A reason they aren't ranked as high in singles has to do with the WR eligibility and NER (National Entry Restriction) of the WTT Series. Miki House players practically stopped playing in 2023 (a cost-saving measure) and didn't start again until 4/2024-5/2024, which coincided with the suspension of PDR.

https://wttwebcmsprod.blob.core.win...nts/WTT Handbook 2024 Additions & Changes.pdf

In addition to the approved rule changes, the WTT Board has also determined that as 2024 is an Olympic
year and to ensure that all players have more opportunities to qualify for the Olympic Games, the
following procedures will be applied to WTT Series events for 2024:

- The Play-Down Restriction for WTT Star Contender and WTT Contender events only will be temporarily
suspended for events until the 2024 Paris Olympic Games and will re-commence for all WTT Contender
Series events from August onwards.
- WTT Nominations for all WTT Series events (Grand Smash, Champions, WTT Star Contender and WTT
Contender events) only shall be chosen the LOC instead of WTT until the 2024 Paris Olympic Games and
will re-commence for all WTT Series events from August onwards

 

[Brs]

Has T league contributed to the depth of strong Japanese women's play outside the top JNT?

 

[zeio]

Not yet. T.League only started in 2018. The current crop of players has been playing way before that.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Has T league contributed to the depth of strong Japanese women's play outside the top JNT?

Not really.
Japanese womens depth has always been there.

On the subject on Chopper
Chopper is more an individual spot - ie singles or doubles.
This is the same thing with the Koreans 10+ years ago.

When you have a chopper in a teams event, then either the chopper players 2 singles, or pairs a double with an offensive player.

Japan and Korea has always been the leaders in producing women choppers.
China on this front is probably not as advance, due to the fact that choppers are used more as practice partners and not really nurtured to be used as a front line player.

If you want to say what has helped Japanese table tennis in this time.
I would say the Tokyo 2020 drive from 2012 (8 year plan) as put a lot of focus and these 2 choppers are part of that batch of top cadets.

 

[lodro]

A recent Tieba thread on Hashimoto's stats in the past few years. The only non-teammate she lost to in 2022 was HZJ and her win rate against non-teammates in 2024 is currently 100%.

Fair enough but when asked which one of the two players plaid better the other day on that final, the answer is absolutely : " SATO""

 

[turbozed]

Fair enough but when asked which one of the two players plaid better the other day on that final, the answer is absolutely : " SATO""

Not just in the finals, in my eyes she was the stronger player in my eyes throughout the entire tournament.

But there are nuances that probably escape my untrained eye. Sato was responsible for most of the spectacular put aways, but this could've been set up by clever play from Hashimoto. So there may be some teamwork dynamics here that only they and their coaches can appreciate fully.

While JNT is shuffling around their female attacking pairs often, it really feels like these two choppers wouldn't work separately anyway. So maybe the point is moot to begin with. For all intents and purposes, they are an inseparable pair. Without one or the other having an off day and making all the mistakes, it's hard to separate their individual contributions.

 

[allencorn]

Not just in the finals, in my eyes she was the stronger player in my eyes throughout the entire tournament.

But there are nuances that probably escape my untrained eye. Sato was responsible for most of the spectacular put aways, but this could've been set up by clever play from Hashimoto. So there may be some teamwork dynamics here that only they and their coaches can appreciate fully.

While JNT is shuffling around their female attacking pairs often, it really feels like these two choppers wouldn't work separately anyway. So maybe the point is moot to begin with. For all intents and purposes, they are an inseparable pair. Without one or the other having an off day and making all the mistakes, it's hard to separate their individual contributions.

I think definitely they each have a role to play, and Hashimto is to set up Sato’s attack. Also really impressed with their serves, as they kept their opponents from attacking and often set up a third ball attack And the serves were clearly not hidden!

Love to see them internationally in more singles matches against the top women.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

I think definitely they each have a role to play, and Hashimto is to set up Sato’s attack. Also really impressed with their serves, as they kept their opponents from attacking and often set up a third ball attack And the serves were clearly not hidden!

Love to see them internationally in more singles matches against the top women.

Look up Hashimoto's record this year. She's beaten Miwa and Shin Yubin this year in addition to a number of Chinese players.

 

[NextLevel]

Sato (#80) and Hashimoto (#34) are far from the elite level of singles play of the top ten women, but as a doubles team they have been taking down a lot of good players/teams. What is it about doubles that makes their chopping more successful than it is in singles, or is it just they make such a good team regardless of their style?

They are sure a breath of fresh air to watch.

I think the responses on the thread have been more than sufficient, Sato was known to trouble Ding Ning and made the national team a few times, so I find it amusing that you are using their (current) WTT ranking to measure their strength.

That said, they are far more exciting to watch now than I ever remember, as formidable as they were even in the late 2010s. Hashimoto's forehand is much better now than it was back then.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think the responses on the thread have been more than sufficient, Sato was known to trouble Ding Ning and made the national team a few times, so I find it amusing that you are using their (current) WTT ranking to measure their strength.

That said, they are far more exciting to watch now than I ever remember, as formidable as they were even in the late 2010s. Hashimoto's forehand is much better now than it was back then.

i think I must also emphasize WR issues

since these, should we call non top 6 players, will not get the chances of high ranking point tournaments, so it is impossible to climb world ranking - especially if they play very little events, or feeders a year (both of them 1xSC, 1 x C, 4 x Feeder
even winning 8 feeders, you are only WR25
8 x feeder finalists, you become only WR40
8 x feeder SF, you become only WR80

it is not uncommon to be floating between WR20 and WR80 due to having little chances of attractive points/events
Ie, these choppers could easily beat 1 or 2 top players in a row in a Smash for example and get into say 2 x QF and gain 350 points each, which equates to WR40 with just 2 events, or +finalist x 6 in feeder getting top into WR18 or so.

Its all about maths and having rights to take part in luxurious WR events, and then the draw.

 

[Tempest/Comet]

Hashimoto & Sato in High School years (h2 & h3).

 

[Tempest/Comet]

Sato had tried other combinations, before high school graduation in 2016 and joining mikihouse.
Here she was with Hayata (15) in WD Final at 2015 Korea Open. An interesting combo, lefty-righty, attack-defence. Was 0-2 up against Ito-Hirano, 2 right handed attackers, but lost in the decider 9-11.

 

[zeio]

But sadly, they didn't qualify for WTTC 2025. The 2 pairs will be Odo/Yokoi and Kihara/Harimoto.