Why doesn't Nittaku fastarc G-1 spin as much as my soft tensor rubber can?

[PenHoldSandro]

Easier to make spin with tensor, harder to make spin with G1. That's all

 

[Tyce]

Ugh the outdated argument is such an annoying fallacy.

Going from celluloid to ABS doesn't magically change the properties needed to spin the ball.
Tenergy is 2 years older and still produces higher levels of spin than most players will be able to extract.

I wish someone would actually get a spinsight setup and do some rigorous scientific testing pitting top sellers in different segments and different types against another.
Like G1, T05, D05, Rakza 7 but also popular hybrids and of course Hurricane 3.
And not just back to back, but multiple tests giving time to adjust to each rubber.

 

[zaivyi]

thanks for all of your support, and finally I got this tremendous amount of spin, I just started to play more into the ball and tried to use my body a bit more actively

 

[WingTT]

Mima Ito's fh would like a word:

I like how people assume the rubbers the very top players use are the same as what you or I can buy at the store. So besides Mima Ito, how may other top players men or women are using G1 on their forehand again?

She also has a close to the table more or less flat hitting style of attack. This is a double edged sword and the lack of spin to speed ratio makes is a lot less reliable and consistent. See how many shots she missed on the forehand when she lost against Miyu Nagasaki at WTT Hong Kong.

 

[NetProphet]

I like how people assume the rubbers the very top players use are the same as what you or I can buy at the store. So besides Mima Ito, how may other top players men or women are using G1 on their forehand again?

She also has a close to the table more or less flat hitting style of attack. This is a double edged sword and the lack of spin to speed ratio makes is a lot less reliable and consistent. See how many shots she missed on the forehand when she lost against Miyu Nagasaki at WTT Hong Kong.

Dude, it kinda proves your point wrong, and G1 can be used successfully today.

Your initial statement said G1 is too soft for high level offensive play with the plastic ball.
I'd accept that for most players above 2200 it probably is but the OP is comparing it to Tibhar Aurus so G1 is plenty relevant here.

I also know at least 5 extremely good players who still use it on their FH and this is after trying Tenergy, Dignics, MX-P etc etc and they've gone back to G1 and still win matches so it's still a recommendable option for lots of beginners/intermediates.

 

[NextLevel]

Dude, it kinda proves your point wrong, and G1 can be used successfully today.

Your initial statement said G1 is too soft for high level offensive play with the plastic ball.
I'd accept that for most players above 2200 it probably is but the OP is comparing it to Tibhar Aurus so G1 is plenty relevant here.

I also know at least 5 extremely good players who still use it on their FH and this is after trying Tenergy, Dignics, MX-P etc etc and they've gone back to G1 and still win matches so it's still a recommendable option for lots of beginners/intermediates.

The highest rated player who used G1 on a regular basis in the US used to be Samson Dubina when he played and he was roughly 2400-2550. He didn't boost either. He might have played better with something else sure but there is a difference between arguing that and arguing the rubber is not good. It's just a tad bit slow with its old tech /design but its plastic ball grip and spin is more than adequate. I actually think the plastic ball improved those rubbers for what they did because their sponge was the issue not so much their grip and the plastic ball made that less an issue and their price to performance is fantastic. If I felt the need to save money, I know what rubber i would go to first.

 

[BlopChock]

I like how people assume the rubbers the very top players use are the same as what you or I can buy at the store. So besides Mima Ito, how may other top players men or women are using G1 on their forehand again?

She also has a close to the table more or less flat hitting style of attack. This is a double edged sword and the lack of spin to speed ratio makes is a lot less reliable and consistent. See how many shots she missed on the forehand when she lost against Miyu Nagasaki at WTT Hong Kong.

Firstly, Nittaku sponsors a lot fewer players than most; their reps are pretty much Japanese players that aren't signed to Butterfly. But if you look on their website, they show the equipment those players choose:

PLAYERS | Nittaku(ニッタク) 日本卓球 | 卓球用品の総合メーカーNittaku(ニッタク) 日本卓球株式会社の公式ホームページ

日本卓球(ニッタク=Nittaku) は卓球用品の総合メーカーです。公式ホームページでは卓球のラバーやラケットなどの卓球用品/卓球製品の紹介や、卓球の動画や全国の卓球場検索などのコンテンツなど盛り沢山です。

www.nittaku.com

Mima Ito on her fh
Hina Hayata on her bh
Izumo Mikuu on her fh
Iwakoshi Honoka on her bh
Ono Sara on both sides

Morizono Masataka on his bh
Kizukuri Yuto on his bh
Tazoe Kenta on his bh
Shichino Kazuki on his bh

 

[MORTtheORT]

The G1 is a high-energy, offensive rubber. Meaning you need to give it the beans (it is a low catapult rubber), and it will return your effort. If you don't play this style, then maybe this is the problem? The G1 is known to slip on slow balls, which can be a problem with spin generation.

A coaching session might help give you some better direction. Really hard rubbers are great for generating spin, but if you are not at the level to activate the sponge, then a soft rubber might be better for your game now. But I think this is something that needs a in person coach to watch you play etc.

 

[zeio]

Firstly, Nittaku sponsors a lot fewer players than most; their reps are pretty much Japanese players that aren't signed to Butterfly. But if you look on their website, they show the equipment those players choose:

PLAYERS | Nittaku(ニッタク) 日本卓球 | 卓球用品の総合メーカーNittaku(ニッタク) 日本卓球株式会社の公式ホームページ

日本卓球(ニッタク=Nittaku) は卓球用品の総合メーカーです。公式ホームページでは卓球のラバーやラケットなどの卓球用品/卓球製品の紹介や、卓球の動画や全国の卓球場検索などのコンテンツなど盛り沢山です。

www.nittaku.com

Mima Ito on her fh
Hina Hayata on her bh
Izumo Mikuu on her fh
Iwakoshi Honoka on her bh
Ono Sara on both sides

Morizono Masataka on his bh
Kizukuri Yuto on his bh
Tazoe Kenta on his bh
Shichino Kazuki on his bh

You can't trust the 関連製品/Related Products on the player page.

Hayata has never used G-1 on her BH. Same for Kizukuri. Table Tennis Kingdom publishes the equipment of players after every edition of Zennihon Takkyu.
https://yarilog.com/hayata-hina/
https://yarilog.com/kizukuri-yuto/

On the G-1 page, only the following players are listed as using it. And Ito is the only current top player who is using it and it's said the one she uses comes in 50 degrees, which was not available to the public until relatively recently (still region-dependent).
https://www.nittaku.com/products/rubbers/post-3

使用選手： 伊藤 美誠選手 森薗 政崇選手 石田 心美選手 岩越 帆香選手 出雲 美空選手 大野 紗蘭選手

(ITO Mima, MORIZONO Masataka, ISHIDA Kokomi, IWAKOSHI Honoka, IZUMO Mikuu, ONO Sara)

 

[merlin el mago]

Hard sponge rubbers with enough power strength & technique = you can get the most topspin or backspin or sidespin.
Soft sponge rubber no needed of power strength no need technique = easy spin but not the most as you can get with hard sponges.

 

[kindof99]

No one even argued that maybe G1 was designed more ahead of time and maybe not that suited for the old small balls, but good for the new balls? Was G1 this popular about 10 15 years ago? Myabe not as popular as now.

 

[kindof99]

I used to not like G1, but I tried G1 recently on a couple of blades (Stiga Golden 45, HAL), and it did feel a bit like an easy to play D05. And I can understand beginners won't like it that much because the hard rubber top makes it feel a bit dead compared to other 47.5 rubbers.

 

[merlin el mago]

I tried with old balls & speed glue

Still very good power, spin & speed using Stiga All Round Classic all wood 5 plies....

 

[Tyce]

I think G-1 profits from the ball change to ABS. With the harder material compared to celluloid, the ball deforms less and thus, the rubber deforms more under the same impact force.
Harder topsheets, like G-1 but also H3 as a great example, compensate for this change, whereas softer topsheet rubbers are even easier to engage the sponge with than they were before, making spin sensitive rubbers harder to control.
Rubber like Dignics illustrates this philosophy. Rubbers have become harder for a good reason: to compensate for the harder ball.

G-1 has a similar behaviour to Dignics: relatively insensitive on low impact but highly pliable once you pass the treshold.

 

[merlin el mago]

I used to not like G1, but I tried G1 recently on a couple of blades (Stiga Golden 45, HAL), and it did feel a bit like an easy to play D05. And I can understand beginners won't like it that much because the hard rubber top makes it feel a bit dead compared to other 47.5 rubbers.

Try boosting the G-1 with two layes of Falco Tempo Long Booster & let me know?

 

[euphrate]

This is quite a funny topic because for me its the exact opposite experience.

I have been playing with G-1 on both sides for a few years now. And I like the rubber alot, its very spinny. Maybe not Dignics levels of spin, but enough spin to make my opponents block the balls off the able.

On my forehand its been perferct, but on my backhand its sometimes difficult to handle pressure. So I decided to try C-1 on my backhand. Because I thin its important to have a consisstent backhand instead of a potentially more dangerous backhand.

But I was quite dissapointed when I had my first session with the C-1. It was not too difficult to adapt to the different hardness. But to my surprise there wasnt much spin coming from the rubber. I was expecting the C-1 to be a bit less spinny then the G-1 because of the softer rubber, but the spin im getting with it is close to none.

But to answer your question:
G-1 can be quite difficult to use in the beginning. Besides its medium-hard sponge it also has quite a hard topsheet. This makes it even harder to get that holding effect to create spin.

You can do 2 things. If you have a coach that can help you improve your technique, you can stick with G-1 and eventually with enough trainging, get the most out of it.

The second option would be to get a different rubber. But its hard to tell which one. Rakza 7 could work. Its actually the rubber that Im going to try on my backhand. But there is no garuantee it will work out.

So did u changed your C1 with something else or did u adapted to C1?

 

[Der_Echte]

I'm typing it in order to find out why I cannot spin the ball with it, because I chose this rubber on my forehand based on a lot of good feedbacks and It didn't work as good as other were talking about. And now I'm curious what type of rubber will fit my game better(on backhand I use Tibhar aurus select, but it seems too slow for me), due to this I don't know what rubber should I choose to avoid mistakes?

And I have been playing around 1 year, but I can make quite decent spin with Tibhar Aurus Select, and my looping strokes are really consistent with it, but I want to make more speed(this is the main point).

The reason why nearly all players cannot make as much spin with a harder sponged similar kind of topsheet rubber is that the player does not have the bat speed, timing to impact, and control of grip pressure needed to make more spin over the softer rubber.

The softer sponged modern rubbers are very easy to get ball into topsheet and sponge compared to medium and hard sponged rubber of the same or similar topsheet.

Some of the modern tensors have a soft, supple topsheet (Aurus, Rasanter, Etika) that also makes it easier to ball into at least the topsheet.

 

[Der_Echte]

Try boosting the G-1 with two layes of Falco Tempo Long Booster & let me know?

Of course the player could soften up the sponge of the rubber he or she likes a lot and make it easier to engage the topsheet and sponge... but tuning in the end is a big hassle and you have to treat it every few weeks.

Too much trouble for this trouble maker, but if you into that, get into that.

 

[Der_Echte]

In older days, I simply performed better with teh softer modern dynamic sponged rubber o Fh.
Then, after a number of years, I got better control of ball into strike zone, better bat speed, better timing and impact, so medium or medium hard sponged rubbers suited me on FH.

On BH, I could use any hardness and still play well, but the data showed I landed 1-2 percent more with a softer rubber, so I went with the percentages.

 

[Amayzde]

So did u changed your C1 with something else or did u adapted to C1?

Currently 2 months into trying Rakza 7. So far for me this feels better then C-1. The Rakza is alot more spinny. Not as spinny as G-1 but good enough.