says The sticky bit is stuck.
says The sticky bit is stuck.
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The WD final did leave a very sour taste. Whatever great feats SYS and WMY may acomplish in the future, they will always be stained. There might be a way to redeem themselves, but right now I just don't see it.

Folks, let's not fall into that trap of thinking think that if there's a hard problem, then there must and will be an easy technological solution. Technological solutions affect technological problems only, and that's a part of the problem at best.

The problem here is not the limits of human perceptions, or the all too human errors of judgement sometimes made. The flaw here is basic and deep unsportsmanship, willfull exploitation of the built-in system of coping with human flaw to manipulate the flow of the game.

On point: even if technology was available and used to help re-evaluate disputed decisions, the fact that you can break the opponent's momentum by pretending there's a dispute at all and create a disturbance of the flow of the game by going into dispute resolution itself is enough. And that's what happened here. Players with poor sportsmanship wantonly invoked a dispute where they knew there was none. Mima Ito and Hina Hayata tried to cope with it, tried to have it affect them as little as possible, but it was plain for all to see that it broke Hina Hayata's stride even so.

A hawk eye system would have lead to the point being rewarded to MI/HH. They would have lead 10-9, but still their flow would have been broken.

Ugly as sin. I hold these two "winners" in deep contempt.
 
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The WD final did leave a very sour taste. Whatever great feats SYS and WMY may acomplish in the future, they will always be stained. There might be a way to redeem themselves, but right now I just don't see it.

Folks, let's not fall into that trap of thinking think that if there's a hard problem, then there must and will be an easy technological solution. Technological solutions affect technological problems only, and that's a part of the problem at best.

The problem here is not the limits of human perceptions, or the all too human errors of judgement sometimes made. The flaw here is basic and deep unsportsmanship, willfull exploitation of the built-in system of coping with human flaw to manipulate the flow of the game.

On point: even if technology was available and used to help re-evaluate disputed decisions, the fact that you can break the opponent's momentum by pretending there's a dispute at all and create a disturbance of the flow of the game by going into dispute resolution itself is enough. And that's what happened here. Players with poor sportsmanship wantonly invoked a dispute where they knew there was none. Mima Ito and Hina Hayata tried to cope with it, tried to have it affect them as little as possible, but it was plain for all to see that it broke Hina Hayata's stride even so.

A hawk eye system would have lead to the point being rewarded to MI/HH. They would have lead 10-9, but still their flow would have been broken.

Ugly as sin. I hold these two "winners" in deep contempt.

Agreed, their body language betrayed them IMO. Seems like they just wanted to ride on the mistake of the umpire. Ultimately, it is the umpire's call but they probably should have said something like admitting to receiving the ball as per usual, especially since they speak the same language (literally not metaphorically).
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2019/04/29/0012285929.shtml
 早田は「私がサービスを出して(ボールがネットの)白線にも触れず、軌道も変わってない。相手も『(レシーブを)ミスした』って表情をしていたので、相手選手もネットじゃないと思ったと思う」と無念そうに振り返った。

 伊藤も「(プレーを見た)全員が『ネットじゃない』と思うと思うし、私は『絶対に違う』と思った」と“誤審”であることを主張。「審判はビデオも見てくれなくて、審判にもっともっと言ってもよかったかなと思うし…。終わったことなので仕方がないし、言い訳にできない。取っていれば10-9だったので、あの一本はすごく大きかった」と時折、声を詰まらせながら振り返った。

 また、中国選手の試合にもかかわらず、この試合の審判が中国系マレーシア人だったことも無用な“嫌疑”を生んだ。伊藤は「なるべく中国系(の審判)は避けてほしいなと思いました。自分も日本人なので、日本系と中国系は避けてほしい。やっぱり(中国側の)中国語も通じるので、そういうところはこれから抗議していきたい」と残念がった。
Hayata's comment:
"The trajectory of my serve didn't change as it didn't touch the net. The opponents clearly missed on the return and it wasn't a let, judging from their expressions."

Ito's comment:
"Everyone didn't see the let. I'm sure it didn't touch. The ump didn't even check the video replay and I thought about speaking to the umpire. Since it's over, it cannot be excused. Having 10:9 would've been different...It's best to avoid using ethnic Chinese umpire(s) in Japan-China matchups. As a Japanese, I hope to avoid having ethnic Chinese or Japanese umpires. The opponents could communicate with the umpire in Mandarin, yet we couldn't dispute."

On video replay, the ump is not required to review it. The ump did the right thing there. Same thing for WTTC 2014 b/w Hong Kong and Japan. Sayaka Hirano served at 9:8 in the 5th, Ng Wing Nam missed her return and then claimed a let. The slowmo appeared to support that claim. Yet, the ump didn't review the video.

 
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https://www.daily.co.jp/general/2019/04/29/0012285929.shtml

Hayata's comment:
"The trajectory of my serve didn't change as it didn't touch the net. The opponents clearly missed on the return and it wasn't a let, judging from their expressions."

Ito's comment:
"Everyone didn't see the let. I'm sure it didn't touch. The ump didn't even check the video replay and I thought about speaking to the umpire. Since it's over, it cannot be excused. Having 10:9 would've been different...It's best to avoid using ethnic Chinese umpire(s) in Japan-China matchups. As a Japanese, I hope to avoid having ethnic Chinese or Japanese umpires. The opponents could communicate with the umpire in Mandarin, yet we couldn't dispute."

On video replay, the ump is not required to review it. The ump did the right thing there. Same thing for WTTC 2014 b/w Hong Kong and Japan. Sayaka Hirano served at 9:8 in the 5th, Ng Wing Nam missed her return and then claimed a let. The slowmo appeared to support that claim. Yet, the ump didn't review the video.


Zeio needs to preside all Japanese-Chinese matches in the future because you speak both languages and can communicate with both teams. Clearly, an English-speaking umpire is not gonna work because the Chinese and Japanese are not conversant in that (at least that's how it seems during interviews) XD.
 
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says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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The WD final did leave a very sour taste. Whatever great feats SYS and WMY may acomplish in the future, they will always be stained. There might be a way to redeem themselves, but right now I just don't see it.

Folks, let's not fall into that trap of thinking think that if there's a hard problem, then there must and will be an easy technological solution. Technological solutions affect technological problems only, and that's a part of the problem at best.

The problem here is not the limits of human perceptions, or the all too human errors of judgement sometimes made. The flaw here is basic and deep unsportsmanship, willfull exploitation of the built-in system of coping with human flaw to manipulate the flow of the game.

On point: even if technology was available and used to help re-evaluate disputed decisions, the fact that you can break the opponent's momentum by pretending there's a dispute at all and create a disturbance of the flow of the game by going into dispute resolution itself is enough. And that's what happened here. Players with poor sportsmanship wantonly invoked a dispute where they knew there was none. Mima Ito and Hina Hayata tried to cope with it, tried to have it affect them as little as possible, but it was plain for all to see that it broke Hina Hayata's stride even so.

A hawk eye system would have lead to the point being rewarded to MI/HH. They would have lead 10-9, but still their flow would have been broken.

Ugly as sin. I hold these two "winners" in deep contempt.

If only it wasn't started by the assistant umpire...
 
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From the latest "Handbook for Match Official":

http://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/HMO_15th_edition.pdf
11.2 Net Cord Service
...
11.2.3 If either the umpire or the assistant umpire believes that the ball in service touches the net the rally is a let. Even if there is only a suspicion that the ball touches the net in an otherwise good service it is better to declare a let than to allow play to continue, because there is a risk that one or more players may have the same suspicion and, as a result, will be unable to give full attention to the course of play.

11.2.4 A player who believes that the ball touched the net in an otherwise good service may sometimes raise his or her arm or catch the ball and ask the umpire to declare a let. Unless the umpire is certain that it did not he or she will usually concur, especially if the server agrees with his or her opponent, but he or she should make clear that he or she is under no obligation to do so and that the player should continue playing if the umpire does not declare a let.
Holy crap...11.2.3 ruined a good point. Sheet, we need video challenge ASAP.
 
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says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Zeio needs to preside all Japanese-Chinese matches in the future because you speak both languages and can communicate with both teams. Clearly, an English-speaking umpire is not gonna work because the Chinese and Japanese are not conversant in that (at least that's how it seems during interviews) XD.

Oh, big conflict of interests here. I'll tell Ishikawa to retire even before the match starts...
 
says The sticky bit is stuck.
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If only it wasn't started by the assistant umpire...

The rally was played at that point. Any player worth his salt would have conceded. Instead, they (yes, "they", because in doubles you truly are your sister's keeper) jumped upon the umpire's misjudgement to enforce it. No, that's no redemption and no excuse to me.
 
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The rally was played at that point. Any player worth his salt would at that point have conceded it. Instead, they jumped upon the umpire's misjudgement to enforce it. No, that's no redemption and no excuse to me.

Same thing for this epic fail. Table Tennis: Goldfinger.

UlAcY6P.gif
 
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https://youtu.be/5MYKMmNUSB0

At least Guo Yue showed integrity at this instance -> 22:38

And Fukuhara shows how you handle things when the umpire makes a bad judgement

https://youtu.be/2TdDgfVCY5c

Of course, neither tournament was as high stakes as this one. But no matter. Guo Yue and Shi Zhihao willingly conceeded the next point to override a bad judgement while Sun and Wang were clearly riding on technical legality to their advantage.
 
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But no matter. Guo Yue and Shi Zhihao willingly conceeded the next point to override a bad judgement

Not too make too fine a point of it, but if the umpire incorrectly grants you a point you can't correct that by conceding the next point. You'd need to concede two points: one for the point your opponent should have received, and one to make up for the point you got that you shouldn't have.

If you're at (say) 6-6 and this happens, you're now at 7-6 but it should have been 6-7. That's a two point difference right there, and if you make it up by conceding one point only you're at 7-7. Two brings you to 7-8, which in some sense restores the balance - except that the flow of the match does get damaged along the way in any case.
 
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And Fukuhara shows how you handle things when the umpire makes a bad judgement

https://youtu.be/2TdDgfVCY5c

"I'm going to gesture from the commentary box... I've left the commentary box to let the umpires know... I DID should down from the balcony... I'm going to give one more shoutdown"... that's dedication!

In that same game Ding Ning shows character. At least, to me it looks like her walkout is a signal she dropped support for her cheating team mate right then and there.
 
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To me the chinese duo knew right away it was no let.
Sticking with the umpire decision confesses them to be cheaters.
I would love to hear the HONEST opinion about that from the coach of the chinese duo.
Or Li Xiaoxia, who was clearly ashamed when she saw what happened..
Too bad you still have to be afraid to speak true in China .. sometimes..
 
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https://youtu.be/5MYKMmNUSB0

At least Guo Yue showed integrity at this instance -> 22:38

And Fukuhara shows how you handle things when the umpire makes a bad judgement

https://youtu.be/2TdDgfVCY5c

Of course, neither tournament was as high stakes as this one. But no matter. Guo Yue and Shi Zhihao willingly conceeded the next point to override a bad judgement while Sun and Wang were clearly riding on technical legality to their advantage.

Good ol' memories

The ITTF had received a related proposal by the Hong Kong TT Association that the Hawk-Eye system be implemented in 2010.

AGM and BoD for print.pdf said:
38 Proposed by the Hong Kong TT Association

To implement the "Eagles Eye" monitoring system in of some important matches &
events, such as the Olympic Games and World Title events.
The Jury will make final judgment according to the Eagles Eye's record while having
arguments.

Rationale:
The "Hawk-Eye / Eagle Eye" is now part of the adjudication process for the sports of Tennis and Cricket.
When there is any argument about the play, the system could replay the video records, and help the Umpire to
make the final judgment.
The aim for installing such a system is to reduce the possibility of faulty judgment and heated contentions
during critical points in the play, and to ensure that the games are played under the highest degree of
fairness.

Unfortunately, no conclusion was reached except "it was agreed that the ITTF staff will research on this subject and will report to the Executive Committee and to the Board."
 
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