WTT Champions Frankfurt 2023

[NextLevel]

I can't read Chinese and I don't follow women's table tennis more than watching wttc and Olympic finals. But from the list provided by zeio it looks to me that "imitating" Miu Hirano was not a path into oblivion for SYS, WMY, CXT. Wang Yidi doesn't look to be hurt either. I have a feeling that it's either a one time thing or just a training exercise.

I'm happy that the whole "imitators" thing is either long abandoned or was just an urban legend from the beginning. Have a nice weekend.

It depends - let's remember that in China, there were years where this lady with short/medium pips on backhand and electric forehand would win the internal trials - Mu Zi - and she wouldn't be able to qualify to play. Eventually, they did let her play WTTC in 2017, but it is no urban legend, your style or supposedly attitude could disqualify you from being selected by coaches even if you objectively beat your opponents. At best, one can say the system has evolved or hasn't always been detrimental to developing juniors, but the idea it was an urban legend is ridiculous.

The secrets of Chinese table tennis

Table tennis information site. This web site has lots of information on strokes, basics, rules, injury info, articles, interviews, links and video clips both in English and in Turkish.

www.masatenisi.org

 

[NextLevel]

The main point being made here is that China has invested in TT (from an financial and human resources perspective) to a point that many countries can only dream. The idea that what the Chinese do in developing "clones" is similar to what Lin Yun Ju can do by hiring a chopper to train against so he can play choppers better is a bit ludicrous, just like saying that playing on a table for practice is similar to training in a replicated training hall.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The main point being made here is that China has invested in TT (from an financial and human resources perspective) to a point that many countries can only dream. The idea that what the Chinese do in developing "clones" is similar to what Lin Yun Ju can do by hiring a chopper to train against so he can play choppers better is a bit ludicrous, just like saying that playing on a table for practice is similar to training in a replicated training hall.

oh, why didn't I talk about that. haha. Thanks for reminding me.
Well, these guys won't believe me, but WTTC Durban, was clearly - special treatment, both from training hall and access to tournament balls.
the guys can go read my earlier post some where.

If Lin has even 10% of the resource as one of the Chinese players. I think he would be very happy.
That replicated training hall in Durban was really unfair. I can understand if it was a hall prior to landing in the tournament city.... but having the tournament sponsors-staff come and set it up for you too and no other country can use it.... wow

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It depends - let's remember that in China, there were years where this lady with short/medium pips on backhand and electric forehand would win the internal trials - Mu Zi - and she wouldn't be able to qualify to play. Eventually, they did let her play WTTC in 2017, but it is no urban legend, your style or supposedly attitude could disqualify you from being selected by coaches even if you objectively beat your opponents. At best, one can say the system has evolved or hasn't always been detrimental to developing juniors, but the idea it was an urban legend is ridiculous.

The secrets of Chinese table tennis

Table tennis information site. This web site has lots of information on strokes, basics, rules, injury info, articles, interviews, links and video clips both in English and in Turkish.

www.masatenisi.org

I forgot about Mu Zi
In the back of my head, there is another women who was asked to change from inverted to SP..... the name will come back one day.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Ah, yes the fractions story pops up again. What Fraction in the CNT was fighting against LGL's fraction?

haha, okay, well, no fraction hey.
maybe zeio will entertain you. no use to waste my time digging old news for you.

Your theory that 15 JNT players had sorta unlimited resources for Tokyo when there was only 6 players sound implausible. Japan usually has article's that validate these "facts" that you claim. Anyone can make anything up.

Choose to believe it, choose not too.
It sure isn't my theory but what I was told from national team sources.
I think I first talked about this on this forum in 2016 or so.

These frontline players go on the tour as practice players because they are INELIGIBLE for the tournament, I don't understand why this is hard to grasp.

haha. How many countries bring ineligible players with to be used as practice partners??
most I know, don't even have practice partners, and need to ask other countries eligible players to train with.
So why is the ineligible traveling and helping others? why isn't he training for himself to get better?? lol

any ways, you can believe what you want to believe and I will continue to talk what I know.

 

[zeio]

When it comes to how former CNT players feel about the system, Li Ching is a great example as he talked about it after helping the HKG women's team get the WT bronze at Tokyo 2020.

The host asked if he had any slumps in his career, specifically when he couldn't make the team to represent China in the Olympics, to which Li Ching told him there was nothing he could do as he ran into 2 prodigies - Kong Linghui and Liu Guoliang, and he was convinced from the bottom of his heart that they were truly talented and that he had learned a lot from both of them. That was his first slump. The second was when he moved to Hong Kong in the year 2000. He almost never won for 2 straight years, and remained unranked in international competitions. He was so down and wondered if he had made the wrong choice coming to Hong Kong, as he thought he was "very exceptional". Fortunately, he got through that period and made improvement to his game and then made a breakthrough in MD with Ko Lai Chak before transitioning to winning in MS as well.

@15:36

Podcast One

隨時隨地．好聲好戲

podcast.rthk.hk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1-Zmjl1YO0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiuPJJrvQbc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eeEu_o7zyA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBcDT0CxEAk

 

[Shine]

It would've been much nicer to list the whole thing instead. Those players were responsible for imitating Lee Ho Ching, Doo Hoi Kem and Cheng I-Ching. From the order, it's obvious they are dead last and so considered to pose the least threat.

List released circa 2017/5/11, between ATTC 2017 and WTTC 2017.
Hirano Miu: Sun Yingsha, Wang Manyu, Chen Xingtong, Liu Ming
Ito Mima: Zhang Rui
Ishikawa Kasumi: Chen Ke, Gu Yuting
Hayata Hina: Liu Gaoyang, Wen Jia
Kim Song I, Suh Hyo Won, Kim Kyung Ah: Hu Limei, Liu Fei
Li Jie, Li Qing: Wu Yang
Petrissa Solja, Elizabeta Samara: Wen Jia, Liu Gaoyang, Gu Yuting
Feng Tianwei: Feng Yalan, Gu Ruochen
Yu Mengyu: Yuan Xuejiao, Guo Yan (not that Guo Yan)
Hou Meiling (AKA Hu Melek): Sun Mingyang, Zhang Rui
Lee Ho Ching, Doo Hoi Kem, Cheng I-Ching: Gu Ruochen, Wang Yidi, Li Xiaodan, Li Jiayi, Che Xiaoxi, Liu Xi, Guo Yan

http://sports.sina.com.cn/others/pingpang/2017-05-12/doc-ifyfeius7843121.shtml

Hirano and Miyazaki's comments after learning about the list.
https://www.hk01.com/即時體育/92196/乒乓球-中國隊4個陪練模仿備戰世界賽-平野美宇-有趣

Hirano: "I'm getting the attention of China? That's very interesting! My goal is to beat them again at the WTTC in Dortmund. China is no longer as strong and intimidating in my eyes."
Miyazaki: "Other than Ding Ning, no one from China can match Hirano."

Even Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu were clones FOR ATTC/WTTC in 2017 when they already broke out , but Mr I spoke to Chinese coaches say it's only 2/3 serving the one third. I'm sure Ma Long and FZD were clones too in their early years when they weren't the biggest of names, it's apparent that this was a passage of rites thing.

The fact that two or three players can be called to mimic a player means it's more likely they had a similar style to the foreign threat and they were told to help mimic that in training conditions.

 

[Shine]

haha, okay, well, no fraction hey.
maybe zeio will entertain you. no use to waste my time digging old news for you.


Choose to believe it, choose not too.
It sure isn't my theory but what I was told from national team sources.
I think I first talked about this on this forum in 2016 or so.



haha. How many countries bring ineligible players with to be used as practice partners??
most I know, don't even have practice partners, and need to ask other countries eligible players to train with.
So why is the ineligible traveling and helping others? why isn't he training for himself to get better?? lol

any ways, you can believe what you want to believe and I will continue to talk what I know.

You know so much , but can't grasp how somehow practicing with the big dawgs will improve the skills of the younger players?

As for how many countries bring ineligible players, I'll give you one example - Shinozuka in Lanzhou.

As for news, that was my point, all you've been digging up is Deng Yaping this, some chopper from 30 years ago that, this loss that happened almost 15 years ago to players that CNT rejected then. Earliest we've gotten now is what Zeio brought from over 6 years ago. And many assertions without proof. I can claim that I met coaches too, I do meet them.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You know so much , but can't grasp how somehow practicing with the big dawgs will improve the skills of the younger players?

As for how many countries bring ineligible players, I'll give you one example - Shinozuka in Lanzhou.

As for news, that was my point, all you've been digging up is Deng Yaping this, some chopper from 30 years ago that, this loss that happened almost 15 years ago to players that CNT rejected then. Earliest we've gotten now is what Zeio brought from over 6 years ago. And many assertions without proof. I can claim that I met coaches too, I do meet them.

Deng Yaping a chopper??

okay. sure 🤭

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Even Sun Yingsha and Wang Manyu were clones FOR ATTC/WTTC in 2017 when they already broke out , but Mr I spoke to Chinese coaches say it's only 2/3 serving the one third. I'm sure Ma Long and FZD were clones too in their early years when they weren't the biggest of names, it's apparent that this was a passage of rites thing.

The fact that two or three players can be called to mimic a player means it's more likely they had a similar style to the foreign threat and they were told to help mimic that in training conditions.

Oh, you you starting to believe it is true?? good progress

 

[NextLevel]

haha, okay, well, no fraction hey.
maybe zeio will entertain you. no use to waste my time digging old news for you.


Choose to believe it, choose not too.
It sure isn't my theory but what I was told from national team sources.
I think I first talked about this on this forum in 2016 or so.



haha. How many countries bring ineligible players with to be used as practice partners??
most I know, don't even have practice partners, and need to ask other countries eligible players to train with.
So why is the ineligible traveling and helping others? why isn't he training for himself to get better?? lol

any ways, you can believe what you want to believe and I will continue to talk what I know.

How many countries will leave the reigning World (2 time defending,3 time consecutive) and Olympic Champion at home just so that the Olympic silver medallist can win his first World Championship?

There are enough examples and issues that anyone who just wants to make this not about differences in "rights" is just trying to avoid acknowledging the whole story.

 

[Shine]

Deng Yaping a chopper??

okay. sure 🤭

Do you understand how to read using a comma?? I know English might not be your first language so it may be difficult for you to understand, but I was talking about 2 different people, take your time to read again.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Do you understand how to read using a comma?? I know English might not be your first language so it may be difficult for you to understand, but I was talking about 2 different people, take your time to read again.

after your explanation. I don't even think english natives will understand.

As for news, that was my point, all you've been digging up is Deng Yaping this, some chopper from 30 years ago that, this loss that happened almost 15 years ago to players that CNT rejected then.

which 2 players are you talking about?? lol

 

[longrange]

haha. How many countries bring ineligible players with to be used as practice partners??
most I know, don't even have practice partners, and need to ask other countries eligible players to train with.

Ok, it really is hard to comprehend, but bear with me: TT associations don't have money for this.

I have an example of a team from a fairly prosperous European country. There's a team event: etttc or wtttc or whatever it could be. The guy is asked to come if he wants but he won't play: just a practice partner. He is totally fine with that: he'll look around, he'll train with the team, he'll travel abroad, he sees only benefits. And then they come to him saying: "You know kid, you'll have to pay the expenses as well".

 

[Shine]

How many countries will leave the reigning World (2 time defending,3 time consecutive) and Olympic Champion at home just so that the Olympic silver medallist can win his first World Championship?

There are enough examples and issues that anyone who just wants to make this not about differences in "rights" is just trying to avoid acknowledging the whole story.

How does "human rights" factor in the variance of resources available to the "free" Japan? Hirano, Hayata have coaches and partners there, how is that fair for the other players??

Why doesn't Shibata and others have that luxury, I thought it was a liberal heaven??

How is "rights" doing your compatriots in the Nigerian National Team any good.

The team explanation was that they were trying to bring up their next gen, they gave the same reasons at the Asian Games in Jakarta too, and a bunch of other competitions; even the Asian Cup last year. Of course you can dispute that but let's say this is solely an issue of rights? I'm stunned that you're feeling sad for Ma Long? I thought he had players and coaches serving him according to y'all, that wasn't an infringement on their rights, but when he was asked to help others come to the fore, suddenly his rights are being trampled upon??

 

[longrange]

it is no urban legend, your style or supposedly attitude could disqualify you from being selected by coaches even if you objectively beat your opponents.

It is not. Neither it is what I called an urban legend.

 

[longrange]

Deng Yaping a chopper??

okay. sure 🤭

Reading truly is an art.

 

[Shine]

after your explanation. I don't even think english natives will understand.



which 2 players are you talking about?? lol

Allusive structuring and figures of speech is the clue here that you seem to not get. I don't have to name a particular player in the last 2 sentences, the overriding pitch is that you've been reaching out to things that happened long ago that they're completely irrelevant to the state of table tennis now to make your point.

 

[NextLevel]

How does "human rights" factor in the variance of resources available to the "free" Japan? Hirano, Hayata have coaches and partners there, how is that fair for the other players??

Why doesn't Shibata and others have that luxury, I thought it was a liberal heaven??

How is "rights" doing your compatriots in the Nigerian National Team any good.

The team explanation was that they were trying to bring up their next gen, they gave the same reasons at the Asian Games in Jakarta too, and a bunch of other competitions; even the Asian Cup last year. Of course you can dispute that but let's say this is solely an issue of rights? I'm stunned that you're feeling sad for Ma Long? I thought he had players and coaches serving him according to y'all, that wasn't an infringement on their rights, but when he was asked to help others come to the fore, suddenly his rights are being trampled upon??

Nice change of topic, but your refusal to acknowledge the main point is not doing you any favors. If you acknowledge that most countries would consider autocratically denying their top player a chance to play for history in order to develop the team to be an issue, then there is nothing to discuss. If you want to discuss that life is unfair after accepting that that is an issue, then we can do so. But if you can't even acknowledge that, then there is no point in discussing with people who think that arguing requires you not to acknowledge obvious facts.

 

[NextLevel]

It is not. Neither it is what I called an urban legend.

I posted a whole article to show that it is not an urban legend. It was from a player who served and studied as such a clone in the Chinese system. Thanks.