WTT Champions Frankfurt 2024

[NextLevel]

He trained under the same Coach as ZJK I believe and it was well known that Xiao Zhan has a very strict traning regiment, also leading to ZJKs injuries. I hope it's not the case with WCQ. Although Anton playes well but WCQ also just played so many balls over the table or in the net. It feels like he read the spin wrong and very unusual for a player of his level.

Yeah, this is also possibly a case where the table behaves a bit differently from what Wang is used to for containing spin. Usually China preps for such things, but maybe there was a gap in doing so for this event.

 

[NextLevel]

He was n°1, won WTT Champions, WTT Finals, World Cup. The analogy is not between the trophy shelves, but between the aftermath of a big event in their career.

When did he win the World Cup?

Those things are not considered major trophies in China. Only the WTTC and the Olympics and to a lesser degree, the World Cup. Even after Wang Manyu won the WTTC in 2021, Xiao Zhan said "It has been done before", as if to tell her that there is still work to do for the Olympics (which as it turns out, she ultimately failed to qualify for singles for).

 

[Janard]

Hirano couldn't receive Harimoto's reverse pendulum serves the entire match like she has never seen it before??

 

[Robin0910]

Weird to see how beatable the world rank no 1 is in table tennis. Don’t often see it in other sports

 

[NetProphet]

Weird to see how beatable the world rank no 1 is in table tennis. Don’t often see it in other sports

Very true. Its becoming like Golf recently where anyone in the top 20 can win a tournament!
A little bit of Chinese decline, a little bit of European resurgence.
Looking fwd to ML and FZD back in some action alongside LSD to see how the current European pretenders stack up.
WCQ isn't even a scalp anymore, see Antons reaction compared to Truls when he won, ppl seem to be expecting to win now!

 

[Grumms]

When did he win the World Cup?

Those things are not considered major trophies in China. Only the WTTC and the Olympics and to a lesser degree, the World Cup. Even after Wang Manyu won the WTTC in 2021, Xiao Zhan said "It has been done before", as if to tell her that there is still work to do for the Olympics (which as it turns out, she ultimately failed to qualify for singles for).

I mistaken the WC and the WTT Final Cup, my bad. For the rest, it does not invalidate what I said. WCQ situation reminds me of Thiem's situation. Thiem winning 1 grand slam is not a big thing, he won less than Murray, Wawrinka, Alcaraz,... Like you said yourself :

"It has been done before"

 

[d3nium]

I guess Lin Shidong is the new China #1, at least until FZD comes back on the scene.

 

[PoppaChubby]

When did he win the World Cup?

Those things are not considered major trophies in China. Only the WTTC and the Olympics and to a lesser degree, the World Cup. Even after Wang Manyu won the WTTC in 2021, Xiao Zhan said "It has been done before", as if to tell her that there is still work to do for the Olympics (which as it turns out, she ultimately failed to qualify for singles for).

There's no World Cup anymore, only that sh*t in 4 games and default decision to know who's going through the KOs the ITTF is desperatly trying to bring back, the WTT has stated the WTT Finals were replacing the World Cup. So yeah WCQ has already won 2 times one of the Grand Slam events.

 

[PoppaChubby]

FZD will come back, he's the real Poppa Chubby, the CNT did the same in 2021 with Ma Long, with Ma Long coming back for a local chinese competition in January 2022. But he was only a shadow of himself when loosing quite quickly vs a local chinese player in late 2021. Can't find the video yet, maybe someone here will find it.

 

[NextLevel]

I mistaken the WC and the WTT Final Cup, my bad. For the rest, it does not invalidate what I said. WCQ situation reminds me of Thiem's situation. Thiem winning 1 grand slam is not a big thing, he won less than Murray, Wawrinka, Alcaraz,... Like you said yourself :

Thiem succumbed to a wrist injury, similar to Del Potro but I don't want to get into that. Major in tennis is very different from TT. I find the analogy wrong, but for me the main thing is that Wang has not won anything of substance, even the far more accomplished Fan Zhendong felt that way about himself before his WTTC in 2021.

 

[Grumms]

Thiem succumbed to a wrist injury, similar to Del Potro but I don't want to get into that. Major in tennis is very different from TT. I find the analogy wrong, but for me the main thing is that Wang has not won anything of substance, even the far more accomplished Fan Zhendong felt that way about himself before his WTTC in 2021.

Thiem admitted himself that winning one slam was the goal of its career. After that, he felt hollow, and did not find enough motivation.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

There's no World Cup anymore, only that sh*t in 4 games and default decision to know who's going through the KOs the ITTF is desperatly trying to bring back, the WTT has stated the WTT Finals were replacing the World Cup. So yeah WCQ has already won 2 times one of the Grand Slam events.

ITTF world cup in 2025 is preliminary scheduled, with conflicting dates to contender
at this stage, it looks like either or both dates could still move, but ITTF wants to have world cup, wttc one month after each other....

the value of world cup will likely go down with people preparing for wttc

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Now there is a serious question

who is going to retire first?
1) Ma Long
2) Fan Zhendong
3) Wang Chuqin

 

[PoppaChubby]

Thiem succumbed to a wrist injury, similar to Del Potro but I don't want to get into that. Major in tennis is very different from TT. I find the analogy wrong, but for me the main thing is that Wang has not won anything of substance, even the far more accomplished Fan Zhendong felt that way about himself before his WTTC in 2021.

FZD never suffered that much after Budapest 2019 or Tokyo 2021, if you look at his ranking and his titles, he was rarely loosing vs out of the top10 euro players. Undisputed n°1 from april 2020 to june 2023. he won the Olympics being "only" n°4, worst ranking since 2015. WCQ gonna loose many points this week already, he had a semi to defend in Frankfurt + if he plays like that in the next WTT Finals, that will be even more. If he does not go to Fukuoka, 1500 pts lost already. In the first round in Fukuoka he'll had to fight vs a hungry european again.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Oh! what a blood bath.

Even Aruna says, " this bloodbath is too much for my eyes! "

 

[PoppaChubby]

This week: -260 pts
If not going to Fukuoka: -1500 pts

1760 pts lost in a single month for WCQ possibility. He would be ranked N°2 behind Lin Shidong who just have to sit and eat his popcorn for now in Frankfurt.

 

[Lkhfly]

WCQ lost not only just because of bad mentality, but because his strength and weakness has been exposed:

+ WCQ Strength: very strong serve/service game. He will try to suffocate you in first 3,4 points. His game is based around strong 3rd ball and strong BH flick receive. But if you could return his serve well (especially his hidden hook serve), it becomes a lot easier because his rallying game is not extremely dangerous like ML or FZD (in the words of Yukiya Uda who faced him in WTTC). Opponents now have studied his serve better and also limit his dangerous BH flick more with serve to FH (Truls in Olympics) - which means his game is a lot less effective now.

+ WCQ weakness: bad FH defense and FH counter against heavy topspin. Ma Long in World Cup Macao 2024 exposed his bad FH defense, and Truls, others run off with it - you see Anders Lind, 14 year old Iranian player Faraji, everyone targeting his weak FH defense. And especially, he's very bad with heavy topspin to his FH - he lost to Faraji, Anders Lind that way, and today again (!!!) can't seem to fix it. Truly not understandable, because top players are EXPECTED to know how to counter that. Kallberg today just spams heavy topspin to WCQ FH - then comes WCQ mistake / weak ball back. Same blueprint Anders Lind/Faraji used, yet no adjustment/improvement from WCQ. Just crazy to see.

Mentality plays a part, but if you lose 11-5, 11-6 then it's all tactics/techniques. His game was based on something easily decoded (serve/receive), and you could see it here. Coupled that with a deadly weakness (FH defense), it's just a no brainer why he's been losing so much.

 

[NextLevel]

Thiem admitted himself that winning one slam was the goal of its career. After that, he felt hollow, and did not find enough motivation.

Winning a grand slam is a big deal in tennis, especially after multiple failures at the French. And Wang said the same in table tennis?

 

[NextLevel]

FZD never suffered that much after Budapest 2019 or Tokyo 2021, if you look at his ranking and his titles, he was rarely loosing vs out of the top10 euro players. Undisputed n°1 from april 2020 to june 2023. he won the Olympics being "only" n°4, worst ranking since 2015. WCQ gonna loose many points this week already, he had a semi to defend in Frankfurt + if he plays like that in the next WTT Finals, that will be even more. If he does not go to Fukuoka, 1500 pts lost already. In the first round in Fukuoka he'll had to fight vs a hungry european again.

I know people who speak to Fan Zhendong. Let's just say you have no clue what you are taking about and the amount self-torture he puts himself through.

 

[Lazer]

WCQ lost not only just because of bad mentality, but because his strength and weakness has been exposed:

+ WCQ Strength: very strong serve/service game. He will try to suffocate you in first 3,4 points. His game is based around strong 3rd ball and strong BH flick receive. But if you could return his serve well (especially his hidden hook serve), it becomes a lot easier because his rallying game is not extremely dangerous like ML or FZD (in the words of Yukiya Uda who faced him in WTTC). Opponents now have studied his serve better and also limit his dangerous BH flick more with serve to FH (Truls in Olympics) - which means his game is a lot less effective now.

+ WCQ weakness: bad FH defense and FH counter against heavy topspin. Ma Long in World Cup Macao 2024 exposed his bad FH defense, and Truls, others run off with it - you see Anders Lind, 14 year old Iranian player Faraji, everyone targeting his weak FH defense. And especially, he's very bad with heavy topspin to his FH - he lost to Faraji, Anders Lind that way, and today again (!!!) can't seem to fix it. Truly not understandable, because top players are EXPECTED to know how to counter that. Kallberg today just spams heavy topspin to WCQ FH - then comes WCQ mistake / weak ball back. Same blueprint Anders Lind/Faraji used, yet no adjustment/improvement from WCQ. Just crazy to see.

Mentality plays a part, but if you lose 11-5, 11-6 then it's all tactics/techniques. His game was based on something easily decoded (serve/receive), and you could see it here. Coupled that with a deadly weakness (FH defense), it's just a no brainer why he's been losing so much.

None of that counts, history just remembers winners…

Cheers
L-zr