WTT Contender Muscat 2023

[NextLevel]

At WYC 2021, Felix Lebrun lost to Milosz Redzimski (after a 2-1, 11:10 lead), and the latter went on to lose to Sora Matsushima. China didn't send anyone to U15 events as they didn't even have any U15 players, except for Qin Yuxuan whose ranking was too low to qualify for GS.

Notable wins and losses in MS (who cares how good you were in junior events if you can't win later on):
2006/5/26 Izaac Quek
3-2 Chen Yuanyu/3-2 A. Lebrun/2-3 LJK at WTT SCT Lanzhou 2023
2-4 Hodaei at Asian Games 2022
1-3 Park Gangheyon in MS/2-3 No. Alamiyan in MT at ATTC 2023
2-4 LYJ at WTTC 2023
3-2 O. Ionescu at WTT SCT Bangkok 2023
3-0 Achanta/3-2 Falck/0-3 WCQ at Singapore Smash 2023
2-3 Niu Guankai at WTT FEE Dusseldorf 2023
1-3 Duda at WTT FEE Doha 2023
3-2 S. Kulczycki/3-0 Saleh/3-0 No. Alamiyan/1-3 Liang Yanning at WTT CT Doha 2023
4-3 Gnanasekaran/3-4 Feng Yi-Hsin/0-4 Liao Cheng-Ting/4-2 Desai/4-0 Ho Kwan Kit/2-4 Togami at Asian WTTC Continental Stage 2023
3-0 Zeljko/1-3 Rassenfosse/3-1 Liao Cheng-Ting at WTTC 2022

2006/9/10 Milosz Redzimski
3-1 Boll/0-3 Olah/3-2 Nuytinck at ETTC 2023
2-4 Stoyanov at European Games 2023
0-3 Xu Yingbin at WTT FEE Doha 2023
3-0 Robles/3-1 Ho Kwan Kit/3-2 Aguirre/0-3 LSD at WTT CT Doha 2023
0-3 Gerassimenko at WTT FEE Dusseldorf III 2022
1-3 Rolland at WTT CT Nova Gorica 2022
0-3 Pitchford/2-3 Falck/0-3 JWJ at WTTC 2022
3-1 Bobocica/4-3 Olah/2-4 Falck at ETTC 2022
1-4 Groth at WTT FEE Panagyurishte 2022

2006/9/12 Felix Lebrun
3-1 Bouloussa/3-1 LSD/3-2 Ma Jinbao/2-3 ML at WTT SCT Lanzhou
3-2 Jorgic/3-0 Moregard at ETTC 2023
3-0 Gardos/3-0 O. Assar/3-0 Jorgic/2-3 ZQH at WTT SCT Ljubljana 2023
4-2 Lind/4-2 E. Ionescu/4-0 Gacina/4-3 Freitas/3-0 Lind/3-2 Kallberg/3-1 Karlsson/3-0 Geraldo/3-1 Freitas at European Games 2023
4-0 N. Alamian/4-0 Kao Cheng-Jui/2-4 QD at WTTC 2023
0-3 FZD at WTT CS Xinxinag 2023
3-2 Majoros/3-1 Bouloussa/3-1 Gauzy/3-0 LYJ/2-3 QD at Singapore Smash 2023
3-1 LSS/3-1 Moregard/3-2 JWJ/0-3 LSD at WTT SCT Goa 2023
3-2 Jon Persson/1-3 Geraldo at WTT CT Amman 2023
2-3 Aruna at WTT CT Durban 2023
3-2 Cho Daeseong/1-3 Oikawa at WTT CT Nova Gorica 2022
3-0 Gerassimenko/1-3 QD/3-0 Gnanasekaran/2-3 Pitchford/3-0 Walker/3-1 QD/0-3 Duda at WTTC 2022
0-3 Jorgic at WTT CT Muscat 2022
1-4 Karlsson at ETTC 2022
2-3 CCA at WTT CT Tunis 2022
4-0 ZZH/4-1 Meng Fanbo/4-0 Achanta/2-4 Sun Wen at WTT FEE ESS 2022
3-0 O. Ionescu/3-0 Apolonia/3-1 Gerassimneko/1-3 ML at WTT SCT ESS 2022
3-0 Polansky/3-0 Meng Fanbo/1-3 LYJ at WTT CT Doha 2022
3-4 O. Ionescu at WTT FEE Dusseldorf II 2022
3-0 Shinozuka/3-1 CCY/0-3 Karlsson at WTT CT Novo Mesto 2021

2007/4/29 Sora Matsushima
0-3 Habesohn at WTT SCT Lanzhou 2023
3-0 Bobocica/3-0 Monteiro/3-0 Perez/3-1 Freitas/3-1 LSS/3-2 Ovtcharov/3-2 CSM /2-4 Falck at WTT CT Rio de Janeiro 2023
3-1 Hidalgo/3-0 Allegro/3-2 Aguirre/2-3 Monteiro at WTT CT Lima 2023
3-1 Peng Wang-Wei/3-1 Meissner/3-0 Picard/2-3 Meng Fanbo at WTT CT Zagreb 2023
3-0 Hmam/1-3 Meissner at WTT CT Tunis 2023 (1st senior event in 2023)
1-3 Park Gyeongtae at WTT FEE Otocec 2022 (only senior event in 2022)

Thanks. Beating Redzimski is not a walk in the park either but it is not Lebrun. And the other thing is that he is a year younger. No one knows the future but the kid is doing well for sure. Sora the explorer....

 

[NextLevel]

Hayata should now be JNT ITTF ranked #1 after Muscat.

 

[turbozed]

Pitchford just put up an 11-1 against Calderano in Game 2. Pretty amazing level of play we're seeing out of Pitchford this event.

 

[turbozed]

Well I must've jinxed him because now it's Pitchford who can't seem to score a point. Quite the reversal of fortune in this match

11-1 for Pitchford then 11-0 for Calderano two games later. Don't think I've seen that before.

 

[TableTennisDaily]

11-0 amazing how quickly a game can turn around

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Hayata should now be JNT ITTF ranked #1 after Muscat.

I think she's going after WYD and CXT. They both have a lot of expiring points in October.

 

[JeffM]

Happy for Hugo. The comeback king for this tournament.

 

[zeio]

Japan XD dynamics is weird tbh, past pairs like Yoshimura - Ishikawa and Mizutani - Ito have the male player being the backbone not only for scoring points but keeping the morale high. Now the roles are switched, Hina's forehand was the scoring machine and her strong will carries Harimoto. Miwa has it better since Matsushima technique is more well-rounded to score but again his frail will dragged the pair down.

This Tieba thread says it all. The projection for Matsushima isn't exactly great, either.

日本的宇田和户上是真的水，非常的软 (Japan's Uda and Togami are really no good, very soft)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8426614508

 

[NextLevel]

I think she's going after WYD and CXT. They both have a lot of expiring points in October.

It's going to be interesting with many dimensions. I wonder whether WMY has a chance of becoming vulnerable as that would eliminate her from OG singles unless China wants the pairing risk.

 

[tackyfh]

This Tieba thread says it all. The projection for Matsushima isn't exactly great, either.

日本的宇田和户上是真的水，非常的软 (Japan's Uda and Togami are really no good, very soft)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8426614508

I've read it and most comment about Matsushima are neutral or positive, but I agree that JPN players now lose mostly because of their battle will than the gap in technique. Maybe they should hire a drill sergeant from JSDF to grind some spirit in them.

 

[tackyfh]

Just yesterday Yuna Ojio played 3 consecutive final matches in Doha (1 doubles 2 singles) and managed to win 2 out of 3. In the last match in which she lost, she managed to drag it into the final set and only give in 9-11 due to physical fatigue. I don't see this kind of fight in any of the current JPN men (except Tomokazu and sometime Matsushima)

 

[NextLevel]

Just yesterday Yuna Ojio played 3 consecutive final matches in Doha (1 doubles 2 singles) and managed to win 2 out of 3. In the last match in which she lost, she managed to drag it into the final set and only give in 9-11 due to physical fatigue. I don't see this kind of fight in any of the current JPN men (except Tomokazu and sometime Matsushima)

I think you are turning a matter of competence into a matter of "fight". I think ultimately, you need players who are ready to combine the athletic aspects of TT with the mental and tactical aspects. And IMHO, Harimoto and Matsushima are the closest thing in recent times since Mizutani and Niwa. Uda IMHO is too one-sided and streaky. Shinozuka and Tanaka are not bad either. Togami just needs to develop a better in-between game, or get more exposure to the top European leagues on a permanent basis.

 

[zeio]

All the positive comments about Matsushima in that Tieba thread actually belong to 1 member. The other 4 members have reservations about Matsushima. The recent comments over at 5ch are also lukewarm at best.

Strictly speaking, Matsushima is less than 7 months younger than Lebrun. Even after accounting for the relative age effect, I'd venture to say Matsushima has not played enough fantastic TT to impress the general public.

At the current stage, he is rather like LSD, who has not clashed with enough players to paint the whole picture. Matsushima has played and beaten a lot of CNT players in junior events this year (4W2L in U19MS, 5W1L in U17MS) but has yet to run into any in senior events.

p.s.
Also, the biggest hurdle for Matsushima right now and in the near future is domestic selection trials. He finished 5th as the 1st seed in U18 (top 3 finishers + All-Japan TTC JB winner) and missed out on WYC 2022 (only 4 members).
https://jtta.or.jp/tour/7842
https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player List&eventId=2590

 

[Metaxa]

Well I must've jinxed him because now it's Pitchford who can't seem to score a point. Quite the reversal of fortune in this match

11-1 for Pitchford then 11-0 for Calderano two games later. Don't think I've seen that before.

18 points in a row from Hugo. However, this finale did not warm me up.

 

[Shine]

I think you are turning a matter of competence into a matter of "fight". I think ultimately, you need players who are ready to combine the athletic aspects of TT with the mental and tactical aspects. And IMHO, Harimoto and Matsushima are the closest thing in recent times since Mizutani and Niwa. Uda IMHO is too one-sided and streaky. Shinozuka and Tanaka are not bad either. Togami just needs to develop a better in-between game, or get more exposure to the top European leagues on a permanent basis.

Imo Niwa and Mizutani are given too much praise, maybe it's nostalgia or something, most of their success was domestic. They didn't do anything special in singles. Even Harimoto has reached their highest accomplishment in singles at 19. So the rest of the upcoming guys from Japan can be cut some slack.
If not for Liu Shiwen's fall from grace in the Olympics, I don't think Mizutani won any other major.
As for playing in the foreign leagues, I'm curious if anyone has ever done a survey on players to see if they feel like their spell in a different country improved their craft, and correlate that to the results they brought forth. Is there any considerable difference between playing in the leagues and facing the best players on the tour??. Because winning still comes down to skill, will, and a little luck.

 

[NextLevel]

All the positive comments about Matsushima in that Tieba thread actually belong to 1 member. The other 4 members have reservations about Matsushima. The recent comments over at 5ch are also lukewarm at best.

Strictly speaking, Matsushima is less than 7 months younger than Lebrun. Even after accounting for the relative age effect, I'd venture to say Matsushima has not played enough fantastic TT to impress the general public.

At the current stage, he is rather like LSD, who has not clashed with enough players to paint the whole picture. Matsushima has played and beaten a lot of CNT players in junior events this year (4W2L in U19MS, 5W1L in U17MS) but has yet to run into any in senior events.

p.s.
Also, the biggest hurdle for Matsushima right now and in the near future is domestic selection trials. He finished 5th as the 1st seed in U18 (top 3 finishers + All-Japan TTC JB winner) and missed out on WYC 2022 (only 4 members).
https://jtta.or.jp/tour/7842
https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player List&eventId=2590

I think the general public has high standards, though to be fair, Yu Ziyang did beat Mizutani as a 16 year old (yes, with mild controversy) and never went on to bigger things for whatever reason.

How many of the guys who finished above him in the U19 trials would beat Togami in a match? Just curious.

 

[NextLevel]

Imo Niwa and Mizutani are given too much praise, maybe it's nostalgia or something, most of their success was domestic. They didn't do anything special in singles. Even Harimoto has reached their highest accomplishment in singles at 19. So the rest of the upcoming guys from Japan can be cut some slack.
If not for Liu Shiwen's fall from grace in the Olympics, I don't think Mizutani won any other major.
As for playing in the foreign leagues, I'm curious if anyone has ever done a survey on players to see if they feel like their spell in a different country improved their craft, and correlate that to the results they brought forth. Is there any considerable difference between playing in the leagues and facing the best players on the tour??. Because winning still comes down to skill, will, and a little luck.

I agree very much with this, I respect Mizutani and Niwa'a results and I get the skepticism tied to Matsushima's failure to dominate domestically, but I don't understand why understand why and when we started writing off 16 year olds based on that.

On the foreign leagues question, I think the issue Mizutani was raising was more about being able to compete when things are not ideal for you. There are many reasons to go to foreign leagues ranging from coaching to a poor domestic scene to looking for money. Mizutani's point with respect to this was that one should also learn to play in varied conditions where one has to adapt and problem solve despite not being comfortable. So a lot comes down to what you are trying to look at and how you are looking at it. One could travel and play worse and still get valuable experience.

 

[zeio]

Imo Niwa and Mizutani are given too much praise, maybe it's nostalgia or something, most of their success was domestic. They didn't do anything special in singles. Even Harimoto has reached their highest accomplishment in singles at 19. So the rest of the upcoming guys from Japan can be cut some slack.
If not for Liu Shiwen's fall from grace in the Olympics, I don't think Mizutani won any other major.
As for playing in the foreign leagues, I'm curious if anyone has ever done a survey on players to see if they feel like their spell in a different country improved their craft, and correlate that to the results they brought forth. Is there any considerable difference between playing in the leagues and facing the best players on the tour??. Because winning still comes down to skill, will, and a little luck.

That's similar to how Boll is seen in Europe, in contrast to Liu Guozheng who thinks Boll is soft.

Despite what real TT fans think (see Tieba thread below), Mizutani and the Japanese mass media have been very good at capitalizing on his 五輪金/Olympic gold whenever he makes a TV appearance. Many fanboys/fangirls on Tieba and Douban also view the 五輪金, even if it is XD, as holier-than-thou and the be-all and end-all of historical status (very evident in that thread).

水鸟、奥恰、波尔、老桑、施拉格、柳承敏这六人历史地位排名？ (Historical status ranking of Mizutani, Ovtcharov, Boll, Samsonov, Schlager and Ryu Seungmin?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/8401480412

zealotCP 柳施萨波奥水，地位肯定看单打啊，水谷一个世界杯都没有的人排不到前面的，而且单打对顶级选手几乎毫无威胁。施拉格世乒赛单打含金量够高，而且的确是技术有独到之处，无遮挡下世界第一发球。老萨波尔倾向于老萨更高，老萨三个世界杯而且世乒赛亚军，大赛成绩比波叔更强，只是年龄大最近几年威胁下降而已，老萨和歪脖可是一年的比波叔大整整五岁，本就差了半代人（相当于马龙王皓的年龄差），奥恰只有一个世界杯而且那一届马龙高远都是被波尔干掉的，含金量的确很一般让奥恰决赛内战赢了波尔夺得冠，换个半区估计早被淘汰了
IP属地:上海 来自Android客户端 30楼 2023-05-11 08:34

zealotCP Ryu Seungmin > Schlager > Samsonov > Boll > Ovtcharov > Mizutani. Status must be based on singles. Mizutani who has not even won a World Cup cannot be ranked at the front, and in singles he posed next to no threat to top players. Schlager's WTTC singles has a high gold content, and his technique is indeed unique. He has the world's best non-hidden serve. Between Samsonov and Boll, I tend to rank Samsonov higher. Samsonov has 3 World Cups and is WTTC runner-up. His results in the majors are stronger than that of Boll. It’s just that his threat has decreased in recent years because of his age. Samsonov and Liu Guoliang were born the same year and 5 years older than Boll, and technically half a generation apart (equivalent to the age difference between Ma Long and Wang Hao). Ovtcharov has only 1 World Cup, and Ma Long and Gaoyuan were eliminated by Boll in that edition. The gold content is indeed very average, winning by beating Boll in the final. If he were in the other half, he would have been eliminated long ago

 

[zeio]

Matsushima comes from a table tennis family (his grandparents own a club and both parents coach there) and that plays a big role in people, especially those in Japan, exercising more caution and putting him under scrutiny. His grandfather's brother is a former WTTC MS bronze medalist (see quote from an interview in 12/2022).

連勝の重圧がかかる松島父が妻につぶやいた日「1回負けたら楽になるんかな」
https://rallys.online/person/2209matsushimadad1-2/

いやいや（笑）。でも僕のほうは全然ですけど、妻の田阪家の方は父の兄が世界3位だったりする卓球一家なので、その血統を感じるときはあります。

...

うーん、正直、僕も妻も世界で活躍した、というような選手じゃないので、本当に正しい教え方なのかはわからないんです。

輝空のとき、どう育てるか、どういう卓球を目指すのか、というのはすごく考えました。

妻と一緒に“目標は日本チャンピオン、世界、そしてオリンピック”と言ってましたが、輝空がベスト8の壁を越えて全国優勝するまでは、やっぱり不安でした。

...

いえいえ、指導法が正しいかどうかもわからないので自信は全くないです。

ただ、僕が迷って指導していても選手が迷うだけなので自分の指導法を自分自身が信じて突き進むだけです。

うちの子供達は他の子供達に比べてスタートラインが早いのでバンビの部に関しては勝ちやすかったかもしれません。

でも、そこから勝ち続けることはやっぱり不安で、プレッシャーはかかります。

No, no (laughs). But for me, it's not like that at all, but my wife's Tasaka family comes from a table tennis family where her father's brother [TL's note: likely TASAKA Tokio] was ranked 3rd in the world [likely referring to the WTTC MS bronze in 1969 rather than the historical world ranking], so I sometimes feel that lineage.

...

Well, to be honest, neither my wife nor I are world-class athletes, so I don't know if this is the correct way to teach.

As for Sora, I thought a lot about how to raise and what kind of table tennis to aim for.

My wife and I have said that the goals are to become the Japanese Champion, the World Champion, and the Olympic Champion, but I am still anxious until Sora breaks through the QF and wins the national title.

...

No, I don't have any confidence because I don't know if the teaching method is correct or not.

However, if I am uncertain when coaching, the players will only get confused, so I just have to believe in my own teaching methods and push forward.

My kids got to the starting line earlier than the other kids, so it might have been easier for them to win in the Bambi division.

However, I'm still anxious about continuing to win from that point on, and it puts a lot of pressure on me.

 

[zeio]

In 11/2020, it is reported that JTTA officials even expected Matsushima to have a very good chance of becoming a mainstay of the national team for Paris 2024 when he will turn 17.

【Ｔリーグ】１３歳・松島輝空が初参戦…２４年パリ五輪で「代表の主力になる可能性も十分」
https://hochi.news/articles/20201111-OHT1T50011.html?page=1

　松島は世代別の全日本選手権で張本智和に並ぶ男子最多６連覇を達成。小５でシニアのワールドツアーにもデビューした。４月からＪＯＣエリートアカデミーに進み、拠点が同じナショナルチームの合宿に参加。ハイレベルな環境で一段と成長し、日本協会関係者も１７歳で迎える２４年パリ五輪で「代表の主力になる可能性も十分ある」と期待を寄せる。小学生で初めてジュニア男子決勝を戦った１月の全日本から身長も５センチ伸びた金の卵が、Ｔリーグでさらなる飛躍を期す。