WTT World Youth Champs in Slovenia

[dingyibvs]

covid or not, A team members don't play in junior events.
seems to me that CNT is medal hungry
when was the last time they sent such a high world ranked senior player (a team member) to a junior event?

Lin Shidong, last played in the following 3 junior events. 2022 WJTTC, 2021 WJTTC, 2019 junior circuits.
Since 2021 WTTC, other than the 1 x WJTTC in 2022, Lin only played in senior events.

If "lack of match experience" is the reason, why don't all CNT A team players who are still U19, take part in all junior events then?
ie why didn't Lin take part in Asian Youth Championships?

When was the last time a junior CNT member's international appearances were curtailed by a global pandemic? Why didn't he play in the Asian Youth Championships? That's a good question. If they're so medal hungry then why didn't he?

It's curious that you'd jump to the conclusion of CNT being medal hungry. Why? They're winning pretty much every tournament of any import and who cares about a junior championship anyway?

I think the simplest explanation is that with Lin lacking in experience and no international tournament for him for the rest of the year, they just want him to get a bit more experience.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It's curious that you'd jump to the conclusion of CNT being medal hungry. Why? They're winning pretty much every tournament of any import and who cares about a junior championship anyway?

Because as I said, A team players don't play in B team events.
A team is "senior team"
B team is "junior team"

throughout CNT history, you can see how when the players move onto A team, they slowly part ways from junior events (including training with them, different coaches and what not). This is the same as Felix, and Lin Yunju and many other Japanese players. They simply don't play with kids any more, they playing with adults. This isn't a guest but a decision and pattern for the past 7 to 8 years now.

and now, both CNT top boy and girl here have top world ranking among senior level and also "nearly top 5" in the A team too.
thus, is how I came up with the conclusion of medal hungry.

Do they don't trust they top B team (junior team) players to do the job?

I will answer my own question - yes, because the B team is a lot weaker than yester generations B team

When was the last time a junior CNT member's international appearances were curtailed by a global pandemic?

I think it is also important to note, CNT haven't really showed too much interest in junior tournaments before - including resting top B team players for WJTTC (call it alternative other to take part or what not, I'm not sure, but the best B team didn't pitch some times).

Also, I actually can't remember when is the first time they sent U15 out...it could be this year or last year.
I don't recall hearing about it before.

I was also told, other than B team, now there is C team
B team is generally U19 to U12
C team is U11
They want to take the best of the provincial cadets into the national structure.... maybe because the past few years, that provincial structure is feeding too weak players up the ladder? I'm guessing that now.

so if any, post covid, CNT is actually taking parts in a lot more U15 circuits.
I'm not sure if this got to do with problems within CNT structure (of yester years method and current problems), or because WTT is run by CTTA, and they need CNT to pledge to its success.

No matter what, I am seeing a lot of "new" things within CNT junior structures of late, including first time seeing a WJTTC winner coming to defend his title. Is there no one else to do that job??
and do they bring a A team coach to coach A team player, or B team coach, to coach A team player.
or did Lin get punished and back in B team?

Feeder Dusseldorf would be more international experience ROI than WJTTC imo for Lin, and i'm sure it is difficult to deny that.

 

[dingyibvs]

Because as I said, A team players don't play in B team events.
A team is "senior team"
B team is "junior team"

throughout CNT history, you can see how when the players move onto A team, they slowly part ways from junior events (including training with them, different coaches and what not). This is the same as Felix, and Lin Yunju and many other Japanese players. They simply don't play with kids any more, they playing with adults. This isn't a guest but a decision and pattern for the past 7 to 8 years now.

and now, both CNT top boy and girl here have top world ranking among senior level and also "nearly top 5" in the A team too.
thus, is how I came up with the conclusion of medal hungry.

Do they don't trust they top B team (junior team) players to do the job?

I will answer my own question - yes, because the B team is a lot weaker than yester generations B team


I think it is also important to note, CNT haven't really showed too much interest in junior tournaments before - including resting top B team players for WJTTC (call it alternative other to take part or what not, I'm not sure, but the best B team didn't pitch some times).

Also, I actually can't remember when is the first time they sent U15 out...it could be this year or last year.
I don't recall hearing about it before.

I was also told, other than B team, now there is C team
B team is generally U19 to U12
C team is U11
They want to take the best of the provincial cadets into the national structure.... maybe because the past few years, that provincial structure is feeding too weak players up the ladder? I'm guessing that now.

so if any, post covid, CNT is actually taking parts in a lot more U15 circuits.
I'm not sure if this got to do with problems within CNT structure (of yester years method and current problems), or because WTT is run by CTTA, and they need CNT to pledge to its success.

No matter what, I am seeing a lot of "new" things within CNT junior structures of late, including first time seeing a WJTTC winner coming to defend his title. Is there no one else to do that job??
and do they bring a A team coach to coach A team player, or B team coach, to coach A team player.
or did Lin get punished and back in B team?

Feeder Dusseldorf would be more international experience ROI than WJTTC imo for Lin, and i'm sure it is difficult to deny that.

2.3 WTT Feeder Series Top 50 Play Down Restrictions (PDR)
Singles events
Players inside the Top 30 of the ITTF TTWR, at the time of the entry deadline, are not permitted to participate in WTT Feeder Series events.

I agree with you that there are some precedents being set by the CNT, and once again, I believe it's due to the lack of experience of their younger players. I remember an interview with a CNT coach where he lamented the lack of experience for younger players, particularly in relation to young European players. I think it's likely that the recent changes reflect a desire to make up for that deficit.

If you look beyond the CNT, all of east Asia where COVID restrictions were the strictest have suffered in terms of development of their young players. Even the younger players who've established themselves before COVID like Harimoto and Lin Yunju went through slumps until recently. I don't think it's a coincidence that in 2023 we saw a resurgence of Asian youths, with Harimoto and the two Lins reaching new or previous heights, while the likes of Togami and Xu finally starting to make some marks. Even if these particular players got to play internationally, when they're back home they're training with and playing against relatively inexperienced and worse developed players, but now that's going away.

The CNT is constantly evolving, always seeking whatever edge they can get, I'm sure you'd agree with that. If you believe they'd manipulate WTT to their advantage, which I agree they certainly would, then why wouldn't they look to fix the experience issue?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

2.3 WTT Feeder Series Top 50 Play Down Restrictions (PDR)
Singles events
Players inside the Top 30 of the ITTF TTWR, at the time of the entry deadline, are not permitted to participate in WTT Feeder Series events.

I agree with you that there are some precedents being set by the CNT, and once again, I believe it's due to the lack of experience of their younger players. I remember an interview with a CNT coach where he lamented the lack of experience for younger players, particularly in relation to young European players. I think it's likely that the recent changes reflect a desire to make up for that deficit.

If you look beyond the CNT, all of east Asia where COVID restrictions were the strictest have suffered in terms of development of their young players. Even the younger players who've established themselves before COVID like Harimoto and Lin Yunju went through slumps until recently. I don't think it's a coincidence that in 2023 we saw a resurgence of Asian youths, with Harimoto and the two Lins reaching new or previous heights, while the likes of Togami and Xu finally starting to make some marks. Even if these particular players got to play internationally, when they're back home they're training with and playing against relatively inexperienced and worse developed players, but now that's going away.

The CNT is constantly evolving, always seeking whatever edge they can get, I'm sure you'd agree with that. If you believe they'd manipulate WTT to their advantage, which I agree they certainly would, then why wouldn't they look to fix the experience issue?

I saw few world ranked players listed at the upcoming feeders
I forgot to check the host nation. Know the one up is in Germany, didn't realise the other is Portugal.

Do you know that when Covid hit, the entire CNT A and B team was overseas for over 1 year? I thought it was only A team, until recently I found out B team too (one of the coaches I saw last week ran into them back then). They actually had a lot of TT overseas.

I won't say covid interrupted youth development in CNT that much as you said, since the juniors hardly took part pre covid - you will see them in U19 WJTTC (not even U15) and then few youth circuit/Asian junior champs etc.
so unless the decision changed in Jan 2020, and then they had no tournament, then it would affected the planning.
But yeah, Lin didn't take part in AJTTC 2023, and I wonder why.

The rest of Asia, who isn't a model like CNT (national team model), but rather (pre tournament training camp model), do rely heavily on overseas match experience - since there isn't as much "internal" structure back home, when compared to a team structure like CNT (referring to the likes of Japan, Korea and Taiwan).

JNT could easily fielded Miwa too, Felix could of easily played.
I don't believe they would. So either i'm right, or the timing of mixed team world cup again is up onto scrutiny again, forcing 2 players to not have a chance of being a world champion.... (conspiricy theory on who planned for this to happen?? lol)

so, we have 2 tournaments back to back....
WJTTC where few top players (who could win it) decided not to/could not take part
then we have mixed team WC where the likes of Taiwan, India, Australia, Sweden, Germany to name a few, aren't too interested.

If the useless world cup was planned and scheduled better...then only, we could have a true reflection on this WJTTC.

Lin should win it. Nothing for him to gain, only for him to loose

 

[John Birkin]

yes,
Anna and Annett doing very well, especially Sally and Giulia are very strong players.
I'm not sure if they trained together before, but since Anna is the only Welsh player, she would need to pair with another MA.
It is also very interesting to note there is so many mixed MA pairing in this tournament (even when you have teammates there). I guess that is a good thing.
Maybe all countries should break pairing up (it is mostly Asians still pairing traditionally)

What does MA stand for?

 

[John Birkin]

What does MA stand for? sounds like PR - partner required.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

What does MA stand for?

Member Association

 

[John Birkin]

So looking for a partner from another MA is wanting to team up with a player from another country, I suppose. It happens more often nowadays, both in tennis and in table tennis, and can only benefit these sports.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

So looking for a partner from another MA is wanting to team up with a player from another country, I suppose. It happens more often nowadays, both in tennis and in table tennis, and can only benefit these sports.

it seems to happen more with WJTTC/WYTTC

if you don't have a partner, mix MA is common
but there are more and more cases where you are mixing while still having own teammates there.
so, either it is more a diplomacy, or maybe the winning factor isn't as great (unless you are teaming with a stronger player, and without practice)

 

[John Birkin]

Our lone British rep, Anna Hursey, has certainly profited, winning 19 GSF 8, 6, 2 with German partner, Annett Kaufmann. They are the same age, 17.5. Reaching a world junior final!