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View Full Version : Good instructional forehand topspin video



AndyCouchman
06-17-2015, 11:53 PM
Hi
I'm not happy with my forehand topspin technique.
Anyone come across a really good instructional fh topspin technique video on YouTube etc?
Thanks
Andy

raazzz
06-18-2015, 12:55 AM
Stigas Drill your Skills video is pretty nice, otherwise just search thru youtube and you will hopefully find some nice videos.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szf5leVeTjQ

Cornel
06-18-2015, 10:23 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bi3vOTH_do


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpVAPPzj3ZI

NextLevel
06-18-2015, 02:42 PM
The best site IMO (unfortunately) is one you have to pay for - TTEdge. Brett Clarke has started a series of videos on "Learning Table Tennis" where he is going through all the major strokes. He has covered the forehand topspin and the critical elements to getting it right in a manner that is not covered anywhere else. TTEdge costs about $20 per month for a subscription.

Note: Brett helped me with my forehand technique and I also am featured in some of his Youtube serving videos on the Reverse Pendulum, so this is not an entirely unbiased review, though I believe it is objective.

That said, if you post video of your technique online, I will be happy to analyze it for free. I have a whole thread/blog on ooakforum on "Rebuilding my Forehand" where I worked extensively on fixing my forehand loop as it was the weakest part of my game.

UpSideDownCarl
06-18-2015, 05:46 PM
That said, if you post video of your technique online, I will be happy to analyze it for free. I have a whole thread/blog on ooakforum on "Rebuilding my Forehand" where I worked extensively on fixing my forehand loop as it was the weakest part of my game.

That is a good deal. I think that TTEdge is probably the best site for videos out there.

I am glad to see I am not the only older statesman who had to rebuild his forehand. Man, that was hard.

I have a lot of tricks for changing habitual patterns of movement but you still really have to do the work.

I had a lot of people give me the information I needed. But the guy who really helped me the most was a guy named Edmund Suen who isn't a coach. He is just a guy who loves table tennis and is about 2100 level. He made videos of me. He had Damien Provost watch me play and help me.

But the most important thing he did was break down the mechanics for me. Get me to understand what I really wanted to be doing. And then I did a lot of going back and forth between hitting with a robot and hitting with a person. Seeing he, I would hold the technique with the robot and lose it when shot placement became more random and then get it back with the robot and slowly, over time I got to keep the form better and better as I was put in random situations. At a certain point the new technique gelled and the random placement started improving much faster till I could respond and keep form in rallies against players much higher level than I am.

Now when I fix my problems with the first three balls, my level will go up decently.

I guess I still have to fix how I hold my wrist on FH. I keep it dropped too far. But I have not really focused on fixing that hard enough yet. I will at some point. But my forehand is pretty decent now even though if I fix that it will have a bit more spin and a bit more power.


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UpSideDownCarl
06-18-2015, 06:11 PM
By the way, I did a lot of other stuff aside from going back and forth between human and robot.

I also did shadow strokes in front of a big mirror. I highly recommend this, especially for getting the coordination of keeping a good stroke and doing correct footwork. Being able to see what you are actually doing while doing it really helps you change the form of the stroke and footwork.

I also do this thing where I take a bucket and bounce a ball on the table and then loop it. I try to make the bounce about the hight of the net or a hair lower so I have to spin and arc the ball to get it to land on the table.

And then, training with Edmund was invaluable. The drills he had me do to make sure I kept the technique through random placement were the most important part of really getting the technique to gel and not revert to the old bad form.

NextLevel, I am pretty sure you know Edmund, right?


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NextLevel
06-18-2015, 06:27 PM
By the way, I did a lot of other stuff aside from going back and forth between human and robot.

I also did shadow strokes in front of a big mirror. I highly recommend this, especially for getting the coordination of keeping a good stroke and doing correct footwork. Being able to see what you are actually doing while doing it really helps you change the form of the stroke and footwork.

I also do this thing where I take a bucket and bounce a ball on the table and then loop it. I try to make the bounce about the hight of the net or a hair lower so I have to spin and arc the ball to get it to land on the table.

And then, training with Edmund was invaluable.

NextLevel, I am pretty sure you know Edmund, right?


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Yes, I know Edmund. We are overdue for a match. He used to beat up on me pretty badly when I was in the 1500-1900 zone. Would like a chance to remedy that.

Because if my knee issues amongst other things, I have never been a big footwork guy. My focus is always on strokes, especially arm mechanics and elbow/wrist usage. Of course, as I get better, I am changing that a little, but I always try to keep footwork out of the discussion because too many coaches use it as an excuse not to give people good strokes.

To quote my coach, "You can move as fast or as properly as you want, but if you get to the ball and can't do a proper stroke, it makes no difference."

My version: "When you have a proper stroke, you will make every attempt to get to the ball to use it."

A famous coach's version: "Moving around before you groove the proper strokes will cap your technique."

That said, for the short game, the footwork cannot be separated from the strokes as the movements in and out of the table are too specialized for you to do something without moving your feet properly. In the open game, you have more choices.

That said, I was already about USATT 2000 before I worked on my forehand. It hasn't made me a better player per se, but it has improved the way I play with my forehand against certain opponents (well, my backhand is now in the workshop for negligence and repairs, and the footwork issues for the close to the table game need serious attention).

But to bring this back on topic:

TTEDGE.com

And if you post video of your play, Andy, I will tell you what I think you need to do to fix it based on the work I did with Brett and his recent work in TTEdge. You can send it to me privately if you don't want to share on the forum.

UpSideDownCarl
06-18-2015, 06:48 PM
Yep. Agree you need the stroke first. Once you have the stroke you need to be able to keep good form when you have to move. But I don't think people need stuff like Faulkenberg or other things that look fancy but don't get used in real play. Those tiny adjustments you make so that you are in a good position. Someone who is bigger will need less. I am a little squirt. I have to move or the stroke is not going to be as good. And, the thing that has helped that the most is the serve and receive drills. :)

But, based on the videos I have seen from Brett Clarke and William Henzel are several notches above the videos I have seen from other places.

Brett has a great ability to give technical details that are important and methods for actually learning how to do the action.


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UpSideDownCarl
06-18-2015, 06:52 PM
By the way, part of the information I was presenting is that, to change your form and improve your strokes, especially if you are not a kid, you may need to get creative to get the new stroke with good form into muscle memory.


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AndyCouchman
06-20-2015, 11:17 AM
Thank you guys, great discussion

mcaibyz2
06-20-2015, 12:58 PM
Here is the order of the training you should follow if you are total beginner:

1. Forehand counter hit. Don't train anything else till you can do it around 50 times with no mistake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnaY6ltLY-g

2. Forehand loop against backspin, as shown in Cornel's reply. Preferably, setup the Robot so that the ball drops close to the edge to the table, and spin the ball with the power of your stoke.

3. Forehand loop drive against block, as shown in Cornel's reply.

Once you are consistent with these stokes, add more power. Once you have enough power, add footwork. If you can do all these, you will have great forehand. Most importantly, compare your own stoke with the video, and find out your own mistake and adjust.

Happy Training.

mcaibyz2
06-20-2015, 01:11 PM
BTW, there are obvious differences in forehand strokes if you watch Chinese players and European players. Maybe European style suites you because most coaches adapt this style.

Quote from
http://www.tabletennisdb.com/coachwiki/32-european-loop-vs-chinese-loop/

There are a few but nonetheless distinct differences in the way Chinese players perform the forehand loop stroke compared to European players. In most regards the strokes are similar, requiring the legs and torso as the powertrain; however, they diverge in the usage of the arm and its joints. The Chinese stroke implements a straighter arm for generating more power; whereas, the European stroke implements a bent arm, which facilitates a quicker recovery.





Differences in the Forehand Loop Stroke Text Section


Arm extension: Both the European and Chinese loops rely on the legs, hips, and torso for proper upper body rotation, which in turn drives the arm. However, the Chinese style implements a fuller extension of the arm, which generates greater power. Any significant bending of the elbow occurs only during the follow through of the swing. Using the Chinese style, the arm's axis of rotation is primarily at the shoulder; whereas, using the European style, the arm's axis of rotation is primarily at the elbow, keeping the racket closer to the body and potentially facilitating a quicker recovery.
"Whip" arm: Both the Chinese and European styles "whip" the arm through the stroke. Due to the full arm extension in the Chinese stroke, this can give the illusion of having a "stiff" arm through the stroke; however, both styles require a degree of relaxation in the arm in order to achieve the proper "whipping" effect and maximum velocity. That is, the arm should never be "stiff", as muscle tension will slow the swing, interrupt proper contact timing, and decrease reaction time. The European style whips primarily the forearm and the Chinese style whips the whole arm.
Legs and Body requirements: Both styles require the legs and hips to drive upper body rotation to achieve the maximum efficiency of both power and control. For example, attempting to loop heavy backspin without driving the stroke with the legs will often result in failure, i.e., a netted ball.
Follow-through: Follow through is very important with any stroke, offensive or defensive. The European and Chinese strokes are not exceptions. They require a full follow-through, which maximizes dwell time and has a direct effect on control and placement. Where the follow-through "ends" depends on the type of ball being looped. High, spinny loops, or those against heavy backspin, will generally have a diagonal swing relative to the table and a follow-through with a higher end-point (e.g. above the eyes, like a military salute). Counter loops against topspin will generally have a slightly more horizontal swing relative to the table with a lower end-point that is usually below the eye line, around shoulder level. Follow through in both strokes should have a forward feel, rather than just side-to-side.
A final point on follow through: Although a good follow-through is vital to a good shot, it should be obvious that any major energy spent on swinging after the ball has been hit is wasted energy. That is, a good follow-through is necessary, but the bulk of the energy expenditure in the swing should be toward the very beginning, peaking at contact with the ball, and quickly diminishing thereafter so as to recover to the ready position in anticipation of the next shot. The Chinese stroke does require the use of the entire arm, and therefore feels like a "bigger" swing. In reality, if effort is applied quickly and explosively, yet diminishing just as quickly after contact with the ball, a player should not find his- or herself over committed or off-balance.
Wrist movement: Wrist movement can be incorporated in both strokes to add power to the shot.
Caveats: Although there are distinctions between the Chinese and European styles, it should not be assumed that a player need choose one particular style of stroke or the other. Indeed, the strokes are more similar than they are dissimilar. The distinctions between the two strokes are not absolute and there is overlap in their applications. Rarely do any players use a Chinese stroke "all the time", nor does any player use the European stroke "all the time". Different situations require differents responses. The explanations here are describing the differences between the two strokes in their "pure" or "ideal" form, isolated and under ideal conditions.

AndyCouchman
06-20-2015, 01:17 PM
The best site IMO (unfortunately) is one you have to pay for - TTEdge. Brett Clarke has started a series of videos on "Learning Table Tennis" where he is going through all the major strokes. He has covered the forehand topspin and the critical elements to getting it right in a manner that is not covered anywhere else. TTEdge costs about $20 per month for a subscription.

Note: Brett helped me with my forehand technique and I also am featured in some of his Youtube serving videos on the Reverse Pendulum, so this is not an entirely unbiased review, though I believe it is objective.

That said, if you post video of your technique online, I will be happy to analyze it for free. I have a whole thread/blog on ooakforum on "Rebuilding my Forehand" where I worked extensively on fixing my forehand loop as it was the weakest part of my game.

Thank you, I'll definitely post some video clips

AndyCouchman
06-20-2015, 01:22 PM
Here is the order of the training you should follow if you are total beginner:

1. Forehand counter hit. Don't train anything else till you can do it around 50 times with no mistake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnaY6ltLY-g

2. Forehand loop against backspin, as shown in Cornel's reply. Preferably, setup the Robot so that the ball drops close to the edge to the table, and spin the ball with the power of your stoke.

3. Forehand loop drive against block, as shown in Cornel's reply.

Once you are consistent with these stokes, add more power. Once you have enough power, add footwork. If you can do all these, you will have great forehand. Most importantly, compare your own stoke with the video, and find out your own mistake and adjust.

Happy Training.


Thsnks
im working on it! Unfortunately ran stopped play (as robot one end due to garage size, I'm standing outside of the garage.
So, indoors shadow training!

Rory
07-13-2015, 01:17 PM
I subscribed to the Brian Pace, dynamic Table tennis, monthly training program this year. I also have his video on FH loop.
i have had the biggest improvement in my loop in years.
All my buddies at the TT club commented on it.
players at tournaments that I played last year mentioned "you didn't have that loop before, and you can land it anywhere".
players more than double my level, that I never played came up to me and complemented me on my loop.

there is a ton of info in his FH loop video that is not online.
but there is also some info that I got from him for me personally that is not in his video.
he gave me a step by step practice routine that completely breaks down the training process to build you loop from ground zero.
even if your loop isn't ground zero, this will help.