Match video: Thoughts please

[NextLevel]

strangeloop,

You have to be very clear on what you are looking for when posting these videos. What I can largely see is someone who is playing well but played someone who played better. What are you looking for?

You can't solve the problem of losing. For all I know, based on the videos you have posted, you may be a better player than myself. You don't post any information about the rankings of your opponents or of yourself. There are things that I can see that make me believe that I would beat you, but none of them are really bad things and are more subtle things that show that you haven't worked hard enough on serve and serve receive. Your rally strokes are really strong. But to borrow a chess proverb, "Before the rally, the Gods have placed the serve and the receive." If you aren't serving and receiving well at the higher intermediate to advanced levels, then everything drops from 3rd ball to 4th ball to 5th ball to rally.

What you really should do is analyze the patterns of how many shots you won off serve, serve receive, 3rd ball etc. and compare that to your opponent. Then place in context the level of your opponent and then see if you played well or not. You had a fairly obvious problem with long service into the backhand. I have not seen your practicing receiving long serves to the backhand so why are you complaining about the difference between practice and competition?

 

[strangeloop]

strangeloop,

You have to be very clear on what you are looking for when posting these videos. What I can largely see is someone who is playing well but played someone who played better. What are you looking for?

You can't solve the problem of losing. For all I know, based on the videos you have posted, you may be a better player than myself. You don't post any information about the rankings of your opponents or of yourself.

We don't have any rankings or rating points here to mention. This is not a ranking tournament. These videos show how little I move and how I didn't put enough blocks and receives back on the table. I usually block 3-5 balls every rally with proper (for my level) footwork.

As for my serve, I couldn't agree more with you. It is something I have known largely yet didn't work on. No excuses there. Same goes for receiving.

why are you complaining about the difference between practice and competition

This is mainly with respect to the 2nd game, where I went AWOL (felt miserable within and couldn't play). I missed 5 forehand loops in one game. I missed too many forehand attacks to force my opponent to play his best game. That is what kills me. My serves aren't good because I haven't invested enough time in it. But my forehand should be more consistent. I feel I didn't put up as good a fight as I can. I am more concerned about that than the result of the match.

Before the rally, the Gods have placed the serve and the receive."

I will frame this in my head and hope to improve these aspects. Thanks a lot mate for your insights.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

"Before the endgame, the Gods have placed the middle game."
~Siegbert Tarrasch (1862–1934)


"Before the rally, the Gods have placed the serve and the receive."
~NextLevel

Excellent!!!

 

[ttmonster]

Again rehashing stuff that NL and others have said elsewhere and I have put into play and realized the good that comes out of it ....

If you know that you are not working on serves and its your weakness, stick to short underspin , no spin combos. You will be surprised to find out that just varying the spin and depth and placement can work wonders and give you easier 3rd balls than you are getting with your present serves.

Serve receives are a different proposition and its not always you can find a partner who can exactly mimic the serves you are missing in match play, and on top of that your muscles are tighter in match play so frequently you will find that those long pendulum serve that you are able to get back in practice you are missing in match. Hence, what I have learnt is to keep reminding yourself to have a lose grip and a relaxed upper body to receive serves, and focus on the impact and the first bounce, it can solve a lot of problems while adapting to new serves in a match situation.

Now, going back to videos you posted about the Chinese girl with the perfect technique. So here is the thing, I have spent quite sometime and money to learn that technique from some of the best coaches in US , or at least in California. Now the thing is, that technique needs superfit body and footwork and needs somebody to keep feeding you balls at that speed for the timing to keep clicking everytime you step on to the tabl. Every ball needs to be taken while on the rise , with the core rotation and technique that NL was talking about. Such a technique is very good to have, however its comes with the caveat that starting off people fall into the trap of not focusing too much on the spin understanding and because when you are taking everything off the bounce the incoming spin has lesser impact. IMO , and its personal, if you are coming off the leg injury, I would not aspire to that technique, I would probably try to emulate somebody like Vladi , who has taken slow and steady with feeling to the top 10 in the world.

 

[NextLevel]

We don't have any rankings or rating points here to mention. This is not a ranking tournament. These videos show how little I move and how I didn't put enough blocks and receives back on the table. I usually block 3-5 balls every rally with proper (for my level) footwork.

As for my serve, I couldn't agree more with you. It is something I have known largely yet didn't work on. No excuses there. Same goes for receiving.


This is mainly with respect to the 2nd game, where I went AWOL (felt miserable within and couldn't play). I missed 5 forehand loops in one game. I missed too many forehand attacks to force my opponent to play his best game. That is what kills me. My serves aren't good because I haven't invested enough time in it. But my forehand should be more consistent. I feel I didn't put up as good a fight as I can. I am more concerned about that than the result of the match.


I will frame this in my head and hope to improve these aspects. Thanks a lot mate for your insights.

My friend, with all due respect, you are not being serious here. Let's look at the forehands you missed in this supposedly bad 2nd game- twice in a row, you served long and fast into your opponent, your opponent looped the ball - you missed the counterloop and you are complaining? You did not even block, you went for a full counterloop and missed, and now you are blaming your forehand.

Then the opponent pushed low and half-long and you barely looped the ball, a ball that is tricky as it barely comes off the table. Then the opponent served heavy high and short and you looped the ball into the net because you didn't come over the table enough. That is a difficult ball and missing or making it is neither here not there but people who attack that kind of ball consistently hard are usually over 2100 USATT and more often 2250+ USATT if it is short to the forehand and even then, it depends on the spin level of the opponent. Most better players will smash flick it but not with great consistency vs their peers.

Then the opponent serves fast and long into your backhand and you pivot and loop the ball but miss the receive long. Then the opponent serves long again but you pop up the ball with your backhand, showing that you did not even read the spin on the previous serve properly.

In general, your goal is to be playing for the first topspin. If you are serving long and your opponent is looping the ball and you expect your forehand to hold up under that kind of pressure, you have to be at least 2-3 levels above your opponent as a counterlooper. The other thing is that you were playing pretty fast and hard loops not even trying to control the ball for spin.

Stop playing mind games with yourself unless you think you are 2500 and can loop anything. Post video that shows you consistently looping back people's opening loops and then we can say your forehand broke down. The truth is that you letyour opponent attack first way too often when your counterattacks/defense were not good enough for his level of attack.

So you can put this in perspective, here is me playing an opponent at least 2 levels above me. I have probably played him over 20 times the past 2 years and have only beaten him twice during a period when I was hot for a month. This is the best match I have played against him in almost a year now. Look at how the points play out. Tell me how I should have played better. Maybe if you are watching someone else play, you will be more objective.

 

[Archosaurus]

OP, how can you be so sure that your strokes are bad or your consistency is bad? I think you just went against a player who is quite a bit better. Your strokes look great most of the time. To my eyes, this is the best I've ever seen you at.

Maybe instead of "My forehand should be more consistent", think of what you did do right. 13:13 and the next serve sequence were excellent. You said you don't work on your serve enough yet you beat him pretty badly on both your serves.

After those points, you looped his serve with a good motion and he netted it. Why are you not focusing on that instead of what you missed? You mostly missed your shots because of a level difference, didn't you?

Now I understand that you need to actually know what you're doing wrong to improve, but there's a hell of a lot that you're doing right. The better players here can tell you exactly what is wrong, but I advise you to reconsider how you run your mental game.


This is just from my experience with thinking about results vs performance. When you think about something, it's all you can see and do. So if you think "Ach, I keep missing my forehands!", do you think your forehands will start landing any time soon?


Ross Bentley talked a lot about this in his Ultimate Speed Secrets book. It's a book for racecar drivers, but there's 100 pages or so on mental game, training, learning etc. Give it a read if you have the disposable income and time.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Lost in first round itself this Sunday. Here's the video as promised:

Another good example of difference between practice and competition.

Hi i've seen a good part of the video, here are my thoughts:

- first this opponent is much better than your practice partner, so you lost your partner, its a bit logical you lose this guy as well

- I think you really have a problem returning long serves and you should practice that in priority. I said it already last time.

When they come to your FH, you're not quick enough on your feet, and then you rush too much to play the ball. It should be the contrary, adjust your position quickly, and start your swing a bit later, you're trying to get the ball too early most of the time and its a miss. also don't try to make put 90% or plus power. Increase the percentage of balls on the table, play only 70% power, but spinny balls and vary the placement. you did a few well timed spinny balls down the line and scored a point each time.

BH is the same, you always push long the ball, and its not an agressive push either. it makes the ball easy to attack for him. Especially if he is a few points ahead and has confidence. I've seen you returning well sometimes with topspin with your BH in your practice. You didn't try even once ! you CAN do it ! you HAVE to do it ! and if sometimes you are forced to push, be more agressive with it, or even chop the ball if you know how to do it.

He did not serve short at all during the match. Because you were giving away so many free points, he was cruising all the match.

- In game 3 you won, because you made a few changes : used hammer service, you stayed a bit more at the table and surprised him with simple blocks, like BH down the line. you timed the ball more slowly with your FH and that was enough to win some points, and he made some errors as well as you put him under pressure.

- In game 4, he recovered his concentration, got a good start and with confidence he played even better to crush you

- I think overall you try to play too fast. and when the other guy has the initiative, you try to move a little back and counterloop (and play like the pros) but that was not working at all this day, with many misses, or hitting the side of your blade, and i think honestly he was better at that than you anyway. i think your footwork was not as quick as usual maybe, and you lacked also some more commitment to play this way. On the other hand when you stayed at the table to block him, it worked better, like in the 3rd. I think you could have made some tactical changes. I don't know if that would have been enough to win the match, but it would have caused him more problems I believe. Also you play too predictably, like every ball is the same practice ball. you play cross too much with the same speed and spin. Your FH is quite good when it's on the table, but if you lack consistency and variation you will not be able to beat this kind of player.

- He had better quality shots, and quality serves as well: more spinny, less high than yours. He's much more consistent as well, and doesn't play all the balls with the same pace. Look at his timing and yours. You're trying to hit the ball too early. Wait more for the ball, and add more spin. Don't hesitate to use your BH more. you showed in practice you know how to play BH. you showed nothing like it in the match. You have to practice serves more.

- its a bit of a pity because i'm certain with what you show in practice you can do much much better. Its many small details but they add up to make such a big difference. I'm sure in your next video, you'll be much better already

 

[Der_Echte]

Strangeloop, I see enough of the basic stuff you do right to tell me you know enough about basic technique and attacking that you could play a higher level if you apply it more consistently and are more committed to offense.

You are on balance and generally me the right decision to attack, even if your first attack is halfway, there are also times you let loose the shot and succeed. I see enough that if you stay on courage and attack all the way, you have a strong offensive game doing that.

Your serve really needs to improve on serve type, variation, depth, the whole nine yards as Americans say. Lots of room to improve there, you have a first attack, but your serve is not setting it up as well as it could.

Ditto for serve receive, you could be more aggressive or safe and low, but you do not see the ball well enough to go for the shots and consistently land them. Improvement in that area comes with more reps focused.

 

[strangeloop]

Stop playing mind games with yourself unless you think you are 2500 and can loop anything. Post video that shows you consistently looping back people's opening loops and then we can say your forehand broke down. The truth is that you letyour opponent attack first way too often when your counterattacks/defense were not good enough for his level of attack.

So you can put this in perspective, here is me playing an opponent at least 2 levels above me. I have probably played him over 20 times the past 2 years and have only beaten him twice during a period when I was hot for a month. This is the best match I have played against him in almost a year now. Look at how the points play out. Tell me how I should have played better. Maybe if you are watching someone else play, you will be more objective.

Yeah, my opponent was good and that put pressure on me. I guess I tried too hard to impose my game. My shot selection was poor. I counterlooped when I should have blocked. I tried to loop when I should push (half-long balls). I pushed when I should chop or loop slow and spinny. I don't think I am 2500 or 2100. The trouble is I think I am playing at 1500 or below. So I feel I should try harder than necessary. That's when the mistakes start to flow.

Watching your video helped. It looks like you were going for too much on the forehand. This is exactly what I did in this match too. BTW, I like your serves and BH attacks. Though you move less in rallies, it looks smooth and better co-ordinated. As for your opponent, I would give more balls to his wide FH and try to block him. Now this might look like a joke but, hey, my game level can't be higher than my tactical thinking or is it vice-versa! ;-)

Here's a clip from one of my better days two years back.

 

[NextLevel]

Yeah, my opponent was good and that put pressure on me. I guess I tried too hard to impose my game. My shot selection was poor. I counterlooped when I should have blocked. I tried to loop when I should push (half-long balls). I pushed when I should chop or loop slow and spinny. I don't think I am 2500 or 2100. The trouble is I think I am playing at 1500 or below. So I feel I should try harder than necessary. That's when the mistakes start to flow.

Watching your video helped. It looks like you were going for too much on the forehand. This is exactly what I did in this match too. BTW, I like your serves and BH attacks. Though you move less in rallies, it looks smooth and better co-ordinated. As for your opponent, I would give more balls to his wide FH and try to block him. Now this might look like a joke but, hey, my game level can't be higher than my tactical thinking or is it vice-versa! ;-)

Here's a clip from one of my better days two years back.

One of the reasons I like the US rating system is that you have an idea how good your opponent is or has been so you can put losses in perspective. I have also played this opponent a few times and playing him for the first time would be a bigger shock to my system though that goes both ways as my BH dominant style sometimes throws people off. That said, there has to be a balance between accepting your opponent's level and looking at your weaknesses. I think what you should take out of this is that everyone has pointed out that you have a really strong rally game, some shot selection issues notwithstanding. It's really the serve and serve receive you should be working on. You've graduated to where the big boys are, and you are not going to beat the big boys without embracing a serve and receive strategy that fully fits your game.

For me, I have bad knees and I have lost to my opponent enough times that I felt the pressure like you of trying to do something. My forehand tends to be a third ball end the point shot and it is not a rally shot. The main thing I wanted you to see in my match was how both of us kept on fighting to make sure we either got the first attack or that we got it on our terms. Because he is a much stronger counterlooper than I am, he was willing to push to my forehand and let me open so he could block me or counterloop me, but he cannot do that to a much stronger opponent or his peer consistently, though since it is a strength of his, he might just do it because he thinks his forehand countering game is above his level.

The kinds of serves you see in this match which are designed to set up strengths are the ones you need to build - short or double bounce half-long with varied spins and placements to different points on the table to take advantage of opponents weaknesses. Short forehand, long backhand to stretch the opponent out. IF you develop and learn to attack behind those serves, it will close out a major gap in your game.

You also have to find a good server to serve to you long so you can practice looping various serves. It doesn't need to be a great server, but someone who can serve fast and long with spin. You don't care about deception, you just want to get into your ready position and set up the foot work and loop the ball. You probably want to know what spin is on the ball so you can have an idea what adjustments you make according to your read.

Remember, your focus should be on getting an advantage in the first 4 shots. After you reach a certain level, practicing rally shots too much will lead to losing matches. You need skills that let you attack first or prevent your opponent from attacking first.

 

[Xylit]

Look at how the points play out. Tell me how I should have played better.

Not sure whehter you really want an answer on that

Anyway, I have watched the first set, got no time for the rest. It does not look like he is that much better that would predict a 2-18 score or something like that.

I've noticed that your block against his topspins is a mistake most of the times. Either you move a bit closer to the table and try to block the ball much earlier without much pressure, it looks like they have a good amount of topspin. Or you stay where you are but then go for a full counterloop / smash with 100% commitment. It looks like you are trying to counterloop but are a bit afraid of doing so resulting in a mix of a block too far away from the table and a halfhearted counterloop.

Another approach, if you cannot improve your block, is of course to not let your opponent attack that often. I'd try to vary placement and amount of backspin a bit more, especially short / long chops during a rally and placement at the point between his forehand and backhand (what is that point called in english?). Same applies for your topspins. He seems to be a good blocker when he is in position, maybe try to either loop slowly with heavy spin or aim at the point between his fh and bh.

Other than that you are not much behind him from what I could tell by watching that first set. Solid first attack, no serves that put you in a disadvantage right away etc.

What do you think about those points? Similar impressions or is that something new to you?

 

[NextLevel]

Not sure whehter you really want an answer on that

Anyway, I have watched the first set, got no time for the rest. It does not look like he is that much better that would predict a 2-18 score or something like that.

I've noticed that your block against his topspins is a mistake most of the times. Either you move a bit closer to the table and try to block the ball much earlier without much pressure, it looks like they have a good amount of topspin. Or you stay where you are but then go for a full counterloop / smash with 100% commitment. It looks like you are trying to counterloop but are a bit afraid of doing so resulting in a mix of a block too far away from the table and a halfhearted counterloop.

Another approach, if you cannot improve your block, is of course to not let your opponent attack that often. I'd try to vary placement and amount of backspin a bit more, especially short / long chops during a rally and placement at the point between his forehand and backhand (what is that point called in english?). Same applies for your topspins. He seems to be a good blocker when he is in position, maybe try to either loop slowly with heavy spin or aim at the point between his fh and bh.

Other than that you are not much behind him from what I could tell by watching that first set. Solid first attack, no serves that put you in a disadvantage right away etc.

What do you think about those points? Similar impressions or is that something new to you?

Nothing really new. The problem is that I have bad knees so my movement is limited. His topspin is heavy (his spin is just heavy) so I can't move much and still track it - I think there are some shots where I swing and miss the ball outright. Maybe if I played him every day, things would change as I would get used to his quaity of ball. IT's not so much that I can't play him well or even push him when I am playing well, but that his training and experience far exceed mine as well as the quality of opponents he has beaten and can beat.

I don't have a forehand counterloop. It is what I am working on and I am trying to do. I used to just forehand block and forehand smash everything. But it will come with time - the problem right now is that my knees don't let me rotate my body to loop well but I keep trying things to adapt.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@NextLevel

first i want to say I'm not a much better player than you, if at all. I'm sure i can beat you at least sometimes, and would always give you a good game, but i'm certainly not 4 or more levels above you. However i'm a serious player, been playing 20 years, and more importantly i've been getting 1-to-1 coaching every week with pros for 3 years, I've improved a lot from where i was, after stagnating a long time, I feel better than i ever was, despite aging. My coaches constantly tell me about my bad habits, so i can easily see some of what's wrong with you as well.

i've watched a bit your video, not all of it, I'm sorry.

Here are some remarks:

- first of all, it's obvious you are a bit handicapped in your footwork. I've followed your posts for quite some time, and you mentioned your knee problems, and unfortunately, I can see that you're not very quick on your feet, you don't move well laterally, and not well in depth as well (you don't recover very quickly after a short stroke). In table tennis, footwork is so important, if you cannot have good footwork its impossible to execute very good shots unless the opponent is playing where you want the ball to be.

- your upper body is a bit too straight, and you should bend more forward, and also lower your center of gravity, but then again, it might be impossible with the shape of your knees ?

- i think your FH backswing is good, and you have good spin and power with your forehand, and your execution is quite fast in both BH and FH, with a good wrist action with BH, and you have good touch as well for those attacking topspin strokes. Your bat angle is right both in FH and BH.

- apart from footwork the main problem, like for strangeloop is that you rush a bit too much i think, on both wings when attacking/driving. Wait a bit more sometimes to play a higher quality shot, and go more often for 70% power with more spin. My own coach always tell me at every session to "wait" more for the ball (i'm getting better at it, but its difficult to change bad habits you built for 20 years). if the ball is not short = bouncing TWICE over the table, its always possible to loop it and if you are at the right distance from the table you don't need to move forward to it. It is kind of natural if the incoming ball is a bit slower to go for it, but most of the time its actually not necessary and a bit risky because by the time we understand that this ball is a bit slow, and if we want to take it a bit earlier, then we should adjust our feet to get closer to it, but we don't, so we end up reaching for it, and losing our balance and missing it.

it's better to wait a fraction of a second more, take a good backswing and hit it in the sweet zone for a higher quality shot and better placement . of course, waiting may mean that the ball is LOWER, so it means lowering your body and that might hurt your knees a bit more, which might be difficult for you...

If not possible, i would advise you to play a bit more safely for this kind of shots, they look easy but they are definitely not if you don't adjust your footwork.

- on the other hand, when blocking, you should take the ball more off the bounce. and lower your upper body. your BH blocks are often off the table because you take the ball too late (and it has more spin) and your bat angle is always a bit more open if you are standing or moving back as you hit the ball.

- your serves and pushes are low but i think you can improve the variation. Your push is quite consistent but i think you should try to be more agressive. to do that take the ball earlier and with the head of your racket heading forward. on the other hand if the ball is very long, it might be worth from time to time to take the ball later and chop it to change the pace.

- as for the match itself, i can see that both of you know each other well, i cannot draw much more conclusion.

 

[NextLevel]

@NextLevel

first i want to say I'm not a much better player than you, if at all. I'm sure i can beat you at least sometimes, and would always give you a good game, but i'm certainly not 4 or more levels above you. However i'm a serious player, been playing 20 years, and more importantly i've been getting 1-to-1 coaching every week with pros for 3 years, I've improved a lot from where i was, after stagnating a long time, I feel better than i ever was, despite aging. My coaches constantly tell me about my bad habits, so i can easily see some of what's wrong with you as well.

i've watched a bit your video, not all of it, I'm sorry.

Here are some remarks:

- first of all, it's obvious you are a bit handicapped in your footwork. I've followed your posts for quite some time, and you mentioned your knee problems, and unfortunately, I can see that you're not very quick on your feet, you don't move well laterally, and not well in depth as well (you don't recover very quickly after a short stroke). In table tennis, footwork is so important, if you cannot have good footwork its impossible to execute very good shots unless the opponent is playing where you want the ball to be.

- your upper body is a bit too straight, and you should bend more forward, and also lower your center of gravity, but then again, it might be impossible with the shape of your knees ?

- i think your FH backswing is good, and you have good spin and power with your forehand, and your execution is quite fast in both BH and FH, with a good wrist action with BH, and you have good touch as well for those attacking topspin strokes. Your bat angle is right both in FH and BH.

- apart from footwork the main problem, like for strangeloop is that you rush a bit too much i think, on both wings when attacking/driving. Wait a bit more sometimes to play a higher quality shot, and go more often for 70% power with more spin. My own coach always tell me at every session to "wait" more for the ball (i'm getting better at it, but its difficult to change bad habits you built for 20 years). if the ball is not short = bouncing TWICE over the table, its always possible to loop it and if you are at the right distance from the table you don't need to move forward to it. It is kind of natural if the incoming ball is a bit slower to go for it, but most of the time its actually not necessary and a bit risky because by the time we understand that this ball is a bit slow, and if we want to take it a bit earlier, then we should adjust our feet to get closer to it, but we don't, so we end up reaching for it, and losing our balance and missing it.

it's better to wait a fraction of a second more, take a good backswing and hit it in the sweet zone for a higher quality shot and better placement . of course, waiting may mean that the ball is LOWER, so it means lowering your body and that might hurt your knees a bit more, which might be difficult for you...

If not possible, i would advise you to play a bit more safely for this kind of shots, they look easy but they are definitely not if you don't adjust your footwork.

- on the other hand, when blocking, you should take the ball more off the bounce. and lower your upper body. your BH blocks are often off the table because you take the ball too late (and it has more spin) and your bat angle is always a bit more open if you are standing or moving back as you hit the ball.

- your serves and pushes are low but i think you can improve the variation. Your push is quite consistent but i think you should try to be more agressive. to do that take the ball earlier and with the head of your racket heading forward. on the other hand if the ball is very long, it might be worth from time to time to take the ball later and chop it to change the pace.

- as for the match itself, i can see that both of you know each other well, i cannot draw much more conclusion.

Thanks for your post, Takkyu. Defending myself or my level would be the entirely wrong approach to responding to you as you have suggested many ideas that I usually summarily dismiss as not being part of my game or my approach to table tennis. I do find them interesting and will review them in detail and give them some thought.

I have seen some of the video you posted a while back and I have often made the mistake myself of watching someone on screen and thinking I could give them a good match. But sometimes, it is hard to see the cognitive problems people are posing when watching from afar. That's why I tell people that knowing the level of the opponent helps, because we can't see spin on camera. Also, familiar opponents can be fairly conservative in choosing plays when they know what they are looking for and what the opponent will do. People who have played me in person have often been surprised by the difference in how I come across in person vs on camera and find that the quality of ball they are giving me matters a lot in preventing me from doing certain thing. It's not an accident that this opponent almost never serves into my backhand, for example. Someone who does repeatedly, as do many players, that will be picking up the ball, more often than not.

Thanks again for your comments.

 

[NextLevel]

My opponent once beat former Olympian David Zhuang in a league match 12-10 in the 5th. He has been over USATT 2300 Since my game tends to be very strategically focused and doesn't let someone fully express himself, here is a match from almost two years ago against a younger and stronger looper (I wish I had a more recent match) that can give you a better idea of what my opponent's game can be like. It's not the best, but just to give you an idea. The opponent is a student of Zhuang.

Sorry for the thread hijack, strangeloop, but I am trying to stress to people that you always need to understand your performance in the context of your opponent as if you don't understand the windows they are closing, you will just be frustrated. The kid usually beats me really badly, though my improved serves are closing out some windows as well - my forehand serve return is still too poor.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

no problem m8. if you want my level, my best ranking was 1350 in France years ago. then i played much less and dipped to 1100, but in the last 3-4 years i've played more seriously with professional 1:1 coaching, some of them which played at top national (japan) level or even international level. Of course that will never make me a pro or even a very good amateur, but at least i'm improving again, and its very difficult to be honest because i have to correct 20 years of bad habits and adjust to the new techniques. As i think i'm a much better player than ever, according to some equivalence table that i found , i should be around 1900-2000 in the US, and hopefully soon better than that !

Alas, my technique cannot compensate my declining fitness. When i was younger i was more limited technically but there were w few things i was doing very well. I used to play with Mark V 1.7mm i was very good at serving long no spin both straight and diagonal, and i would then just flat hit the ball straight if coming back to the FH or both sides if coming back to me and I scored more than 50% of my points on my serve this way. it was only possible because i was very quick and very low on my feet and i could hit the ball very well even if it was low. It was limited but worked very well up to some level. I can't do it anymore. So I'm not as quick but my return technique is much better, my short game as well, block or BH much much better, etc...

We both have this timing problem, i think it's necessary to correct it to get to the next level.

As for your footwork, well, you know better your body, but if you can find ways to move better, your game will improve a lot. Working on your long pushes/chops/blocks may be the alternative if you don't have the fitness to loop everything (looping on the FH side is mostly about footwork). Its not surprising your attacking BH is much better, because your stroke is short (=good) and you don't need to use the legs as much for the BH. When you were pivoting from BH side it was always a strong shot. when playing a wide FH from BH you had more problems, because of the footwork.


I saw you missed a lot of FH counterloops because you are standing too high. you should lower your upper body. you don't need to go 90% power and go for a counter-winner. Relax more, focus on timing and getting your bat angle more horizontal will improve your consistency, maybe the ball would be sometimes shorter as a consequence, and make it easier, but it would be more often on the table and more spinny. Same than strangeloop your first FH attack is always 90%+ power and if your opponent blocks it you are often out of position. when he's not blocking it, ok point for you, but i think it you alternate strong balls and more slow but spinny balls and vary the placement, you'll be more difficult to play.

yes I agree your opponent is good. Despite his big belly and his age, he still moves quite well, his shot quality is good, always spin the ball, and he's making not many unforced errors, quite consistent. Definitely he raised his level when playing this younger player compared to his match with you

 

[NextLevel]

As for your footwork, well, you know better your body, but if you can find ways to move better, your game will improve a lot. Working on your long pushes/chops/blocks may be the alternative if you don't have the fitness to loop everything (looping on the FH side is mostly about footwork). Its not surprising your attacking BH is much better, because your stroke is short (=good) and you don't need to use the legs as much for the BH. I saw you missed a lot of FH counterloops because you are standing too high. you should lower your upper body. you don't need to go 90% power and go for a counter-winner. Relax more, focus on timing and getting your bat angle more horizontal will improve your consistency, maybe the ball would be sometimes shorter as a consequence, and make it easier, but it would be more often on the table and more spinny. Same than strangeloop your first FH attack is always 90%+ power and if your opponent blocks it you are often out of position. when he's not blocking it, ok point for you, but i think it you alternate strong balls and more slow but spinny balls and vary the placement, you'll be more difficult to play.

OKay, so to help you with some context, I broke USATT 2000 in January 2015 playing a largely different style from the one I play today. IT revolved more around pushing and blocking and having a strong backhand opening and counter. I could loop underspin but somewhat inconsistently but I almost never counterlooped. Here is a sample match below.

After that, I started working with Brett and took steps backwards to rebuild my game in a different direction, a game that I do not have the athleticism to support but which I can coach. I have beaten enough opponents with my old limited game to know that I could have taken it further. But I wanted to be able to play "respectable" table tennis as well. So my point is that many of my issues come from training a style that is hurting me physically and is not the style I was trained to play. But I enjoy playing it and I push at it come what may. But it also helps me realize that a lot of things people say about TT is based on what they can see. I am playing a conventional game at a lower level than I could play a different style. But I do it because I want to learn. Sometimes, I revert to my old style for short sequences in matches and I laugh at the results.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

ok thanks for the vid. I have not much idea about rankings u know. all i can say is that our level is not too different. I have a lot of weaknesses of course else i'd say i'm ranked much better, but the good thing now for me is that i am coached and aware of everything i should improve, and also have a good idea of where i have actually improved a bit.

apart from my coaches, i train with players from all levels and all styles, lower than me but also up to 2300 or better sometimes.

in this video you are less agressive and playing more blocks. I see you already have some problems with your footwork, you were already injured I guess.

i hope that my tips are useful for you, please try them, and if they don't work for you, just try something else. I'm coached by pros, but i'm not a pro - coach at all, so i don't hold any truth !!!

 

[NextLevel]

This is the video I remember. Yes, our levels are not too different, but what I am saying is that don't let the camera deceive you - technique is not everything. In fact, my whole point to strangeloop is that he should stop thinking about one stroke and start thinking about the sequence of strokes starting with serve and how to set up and change the favorable patterns. My point to people is that my rating level is relatively the same even when I play different styles and my technique on conventional shots is better. Technique is not everything.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

well yes thats me, i hope i'm much better now than that game where i lost 0-3 with little discussion ! but i was happy cause at least i was playing positively this one and made some good shots. 10 months later i may be 1 or 2% slower with age ? depending on the day, but my technique improved a lot since i believe, especially on the BH side where i really made a lot of progress (but still a lot of room).

i think you will see me rushing a bit too much as we all do, and playing too much on his BH side which is his strong side. when i play with more spin, especially cross court, he had more problems. at the time i had no confidence with my BH, and i was trying to pivot and attack with my FH as soon as possible. But its too risky and with pressure mounting i could not keep it