BREAKING: Ma Long & Fan Zhendong boycott CHINA OPEN!

[Baal]

Here. She was on Dancing With the Stars this year, LOL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simone_Biles

 

[NextLevel]

to be exact MAYBE biles is more popular when one tries to measure fame with % and not numbers only. That is what I call statistic accuracy and is one of the reason why I disagree with rainenever "Statistical analysis" so much is because he intentionally does not take several factors into consideration, or he simply does not know how to make an accurate analysis about who is who etc

ma long has definitely more fans than biles that's for sure, but china is like 1.4 billions and the US 300 million people

So if 2/3 fans know biles and ma long they are equal and is more accurate way to express it BUT in numbers it is translated with millions of fans more

You are making a lot of assumptions about TT in China. Who has more fans, Yao Ming or Ma Long? Lebron James or Ma Long? Tiger Woods or Ma Long?

When you pose the question that way, then it isn't too unbelievable that Simone Biles might have more fans than Ma Long. Not wrong or right, just not unbelievable.

 

[Baal]

By the way, lists of popularity of athletes all suffer from flawed methodology that make them pretty uncertain, including the ones Forbes and ESPN use. Academic researchers who study this kind of thing just laugh at what they do. People in the US will often see "ratings" of all sorts of things from US News and World Report. At least in the sector I work in, their ratings should be ignored.

Undoubtedly, though, there are some popular table tennis players in China! Audi advertisements are a pretty big deal there. My last trip there in December I saw pictures of Ma Long, ZJK and Liu Shiwen in lots of places. Interestingly, though, I got the impression on the trip before that, which was around 2014, that the image of Kobe Bryant was everywhere.

In the US, the most popular athletes are basketball players and football players (but pretty much only quarterbacks) since they are on a national stage every year. People see them all the time. Lebron James, Tom Brady, Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, these are incredible stars right at the moment. James Harden (The Beard) is instantly recognizable anywhere in the US (and now my Rockets have Chris Paul too!!!!). Really nobody else comes close here in terms of popularity to people in those sports. Gymnasts like Simone Biles who win golds are always very marketable for awhile (the coverage means you see them very close up and the stuff they do is pretty amazing); but only every four years, which means after a year or so they kind of fade back into the wood work. Simone Biles (who is from Houston where I live) had an interesting life story also. I think she is still very marketable. The Williams sisters have been in the public eye forever. Winning a lot does wonders. In the US, soccer players are actually starting to be recognized, but Lionel Messi could walk around downtown Houston in relative peace. I doubt he could do that anywhere else. Only players here know who Ma Long is. You can see Roger Ferderer in ads for luxury items (watches for example) and for awhile that was true of Maria Sharapova too (her looks helped). Actually, at a point, before his complete fall from grace, Lance Armstrong was a really popular athlete in the US, in a sport that previously in the US not so many people cared about (but there are ever growing numbers of cyclists here). If you are not a football or basketball player in the US, it is really hard to be a really big star. It is actually interesting to see the increasing attention to MMA, especially women in MMA. As yet they aren't able to parlay their fame into advertising dollars, though. It could be because a lot of ordinary people still see them as a bit freakish.

 

[Baal]

All that aside, though, I am a Ma Long fan (FZD too). More than ever.

I hope they play again soon.

 

[yoass]

Yes... Popularity seems very, very regional indeed. The US in particular has a bunch of oddball branches of sport taking the spotlights; in the rest of the world other strange hobbies take the cake, such as football ("soccer", "foot", "futebol", ...), cricket, tennis, volleyball, iceskating, cycling... and interestingly many people don't seem to realize how locally tainted their perspective is.

Of all these superstar names you mention, some do seem vaguely familiar, but most don't. I know next to nothing about football, but many people over here seem to think the only rivalry that counts in the world as a whole is whether Cristian Ronaldo or Lionel Messi is the greatest human that ever crossed a green field. I don't think I'd recognize either when bumping into them.

Fame is a very relative thing in sports, so it seems.

 

[Baal]

Yes. NBA is not big in Netherlands! Since Yao Ming, it is huge in China. I saw games on TVs everywhere in China last winter. (My hometown team, the Houston Rockets, are especially popular there, since that was Yao Ming's team, and the uniforms with red white and yellow look a bit like the Chinese flag, which I think is an intentional effort to tap into that huge market). Basketball is probably the second most popular sport in the world after futbol.

 

[tropical]

to be exact MAYBE biles is more popular when one tries to measure fame with % and not numbers only. That is what I call statistic accuracy and is one of the reason why I disagree with rainenever "Statistical analysis" so much is because he intentionally does not take several factors into consideration, or he simply does not know how to make an accurate analysis about who is who etc

ma long has definitely more fans than biles that's for sure, but china is like 1.4 billions and the US 300 million people

So if 2/3 fans know biles and ma long they are equal and is more accurate way to express it BUT in numbers it is translated with millions of fans more

I would be very careful to say who is more well-known than whom. ESPN at least tempted a methodology to rank the 100 athletes and before anyone/organization comes up with a better (how?) methodology then his/her dismissing the ranking is basically worthless. In US, almost everyteenager I talk to knows who Simone is, and has no clue about ML. How the heck can I do simple research to know ML is more well-known internationally?

 

[RidTheKid]

Hakeem!

Yes. NBA is not big in Netherlands! Since Yao Ming, it is huge in China. I saw games on TVs everywhere in China last winter. (My hometown team, the Houston Rockets, are especially popular there, since that was Yao Ming's team, and the uniforms with red white and yellow look a bit like the Chinese flag, which I think is an intentional effort to tap into that huge market). Basketball is probably the second most popular sport in the world after futbol.

 

[Persistence TT]

I would be very careful to say who is more well-known than whom. ESPN at least tempted a methodology to rank the 100 athletes and before anyone/organization comes up with a better (how?) methodology then his/her dismissing the ranking is basically worthless. In US, almost everyteenager I talk to knows who Simone is, and has no clue about ML. How the heck can I do simple research to know ML is more well-known internationally?

omg, you take only US fans in consideration, i said internationally you said internationally, what's so hard to understand ??!?!

When i said internationally i obviously meant us fans china fans europe fans all of them BUT the deciding factors are chinese and US fans who happen to be a part of the global fanbase

and sorry all I saw from ESPN was some fancy words thrown around, I need more than that, why dont they publish their method?is it that important to keep it secret?

when i see NA in so many athletes that tells me the research was like 10-15 minutes for each athlete, make some calls to their "bureaus" in australia china and blablabla and that's it. And the article writer was like ok "I'll give 10 points for each 1m facebook fans 5 points for endorsements 7 points for twitter and so on. I wouldnt be surprised if that formula was that simple, and the fact that they dont even publish HOW this formula works makes me suspicious because journalists have stopped being professionals and credible a long time ago, its all about money and super duper big titles now.

Now I dont mind or got annoyed by ESPN all big news site do scrappy work all they want to do is sell fast and sell first, its not the news anymore its who gets there first.

Im annoyed that rain presents scrappy work like that to prove a point and has done it in the past also and then complains ,makes fun, uses irony about users criticizing them instead of "reflecting", like the 3 CNT players will do. The last one was obviously a joke with some truth in it

 

[Persistence TT]

You are making a lot of assumptions about TT in China. Who has more fans, Yao Ming or Ma Long? Lebron James or Ma Long? Tiger Woods or Ma Long?

When you pose the question that way, then it isn't too unbelievable that Simone Biles might have more fans than Ma Long. Not wrong or right, just not unbelievable.

Well, simon biles is a true phenomenon but still not as popular as yao ming or lebron james. I dont know if chinese sports fans follow gymnastics like they follow basketball or soccer stars but if more fans knew biles than ma long it would seem weird to me not unbelievable

 

[rainneverever]

Of course people in China who follow sports news and Rio OG know who Biles is. They may not spell her name correctly but a US girl with 4 golds when Team China got none was impressive.
CNT players became a little bit popular in social media after 2016 WTTC team event because Tokyo TV made funny introductions of them which went viral. Then they became real popular because of Rio OG.
It sounds funny to me what you assume Chinese people should know or not know. And the ESPN article is about the year of 2016 when google trend or Baidu search index is used for analysis. Flaws in the methodology? There could be. But it is better than no methodology.

Well, simon biles is a true phenomenon but still not as popular as yao ming or lebron james. I dont know if chinese sports fans follow gymnastics like they follow basketball or soccer stars but if more fans knew biles than ma long it would seem weird to me not unbelievable

 

[Persistence TT]

I would be very careful to say who is more well-known than whom. ESPN at least tempted a methodology to rank the 100 athletes and before anyone/organization comes up with a better (how?) methodology then his/her dismissing the ranking is basically worthless. In US, almost everyteenager I talk to knows who Simone is, and has no clue about ML. How the heck can I do simple research to know ML is more well-known internationally?

sorry dude i forgot to ANSWEr the most important part of ur post.

weibo followers of ML have been published various times in news sites and his endorsements also. so when an averaje joe like me and you can simple find out a big part of information about ML and a big site like ESPN has "NA" with "bureaus" they brag about in so many countries

then either they are bullshitting their readers presenting a simple research they did like a big and complex project, or me and you like average joe's that we are are finding false information everywhere, in news sites and whatever the chinese posters copy here from chinese sites which is the original source of content is also bullcrap! 1st version seems more logical to me

 

[Persistence TT]

Of course people in China who follow sports news and Rio OG know who Biles is. They may not spell her name correctly but a US girl with 4 golds when Team China got none was impressive.
CNT players became a little bit popular in social media after 2016 WTTC team event because Tokyo TV made funny introductions of them which went viral. Then they became real popular because of Rio OG.
It sounds funny to me what you assume Chinese people should know or not know. And the ESPN article is about the year of 2016 when google trend or Baidu search index is used for analysis. Flaws in the methodology? There could be. But it is better than no methodology.

1. Im still waiting for replies in my previous posts, still got none

2. i didnt assume anything, read carefully cause i write carefully what i want to deliver

maybe I should draw it with bolds every single time, but come on we both know ur not that stupid so...

 

[tropical]

omg, you take only US fans in consideration, i said internationally you said internationally, what's so hard to understand ??!?!

When i said internationally i obviously meant us fans china fans europe fans all of them BUT the deciding factors are chinese and US fans who happen to be a part of the global fanbase

and sorry all I saw from ESPN was some fancy words thrown around, I need more than that, why dont they publish their method?is it that important to keep it secret?

when i see NA in so many athletes that tells me the research was like 10-15 minutes for each athlete, make some calls to their "bureaus" in australia china and blablabla and that's it. And the article writer was like ok "I'll give 10 points for each 1m facebook fans 5 points for endorsements 7 points for twitter and so on. I wouldnt be surprised if that formula was that simple, and the fact that they dont even publish HOW this formula works makes me suspicious because journalists have stopped being professionals and credible a long time ago, its all about money and super duper big titles now.

Now I dont mind or got annoyed by ESPN all big news site do scrappy work all they want to do is sell fast and sell first, its not the news anymore its who gets there first.

Im annoyed that rain presents scrappy work like that to prove a point and has done it in the past also and then complains ,makes fun, uses irony about users criticizing them instead of "reflecting", like the 3 CNT players will do. The last one was obviously a joke with some truth in it

US was used as an example only if you know how to read. It was used to counter the argument that you ascertained ML was more well known than Simone internationally without showing us any methodology. I didn't ascertain Simone was more well-known. You are the one who was against such ranking but can't prove ML is more well known except using in-proven and personal opinions. ESPN has a team of multiple folks and their job is to carry out the methodology. It is not perfect but it is probably good enough since we have not seen better ones, yet. To make your argument sound you may want to point out another methodology from some established organizations close to ESPN level then we can talk.

 

[Persistence TT]

i showed methodology and pointed out the factors, percentage of US fans who know simon biles vs percentage of china fans who know ML.

what espn methodology?all I see is jibberish fancy talk they describe a formula they dont even show.

I was not certain nor i implied ML is definitely more popular I questioned/doubted ESPN's formula, being bullcrap when without any numbers they put biles on 48 and ML on 71 when they clearly dont have accurate numbers nor information

. u still dont get my point, stick to reading ESPN because it is an "established organization"

I will again refer you to my example about an average article TT writer and jorgen persson writing stupid articles on their site. ESPN is big organization yes, but I dont buy their BS when it comes to accurate journalism and research.

last, i pointed out how a simple research can be done by you and me and get BETTER info for ML and not some NA bullshit, and you still dont like. well fine by me , but its still more accurate than the credibility of an established organization (rrofl!) who's reporters dont even bother to actually DO some research, instead of just copy pasting baidu results.

I bet you didnt even read their presentation. Anyway cheers, read ESPN whenever you want ur facts straight and good luck with that

 

[rainneverever]

CTTA announced the players who are qualified for the National Games Aug 29-Sep 6. As expected, ML, FZD and XX will play.
http://www.ctta.cn/xhgg/ssxg/2017/0630/149587.html

BTW, do you know what is LGL's last coaching advice to men's team?
It was before the final of 2017 WTTC. LGL told ML and FZD: First, if there is any doubt of a point, please be fair. If none of you are certain about it, follow the umpire's decision. I believe you two can do it. Second, it is understandable that the winner can be extremely excited. But the winner must not over-celebrate.

Sources: Table Tennis World Magazine, written by Xia Wa.
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=Mj...258&idx=1&sn=f3d4856713eaaf3f07aca49916fed603

 

[Baal]

I hope LGL ends up doing something he enjoys.

 

[yoass]

I hope LGL ends up doing something he enjoys.

I hope LGL doesn't end up.

 

[Baal]

Hakeem!

Generally known simply as "Dream" in Houston (short for Hakeem tbe Dream, a nickname he got in college, also in Houston, because he was so insanely smooth for his size). One of hbe five best centers in basketball history, along with Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, and Shaq

 

[Persistence TT]

CTTA announced the players who are qualified for the National Games Aug 29-Sep 6. As expected, ML, FZD and XX will play.
http://www.ctta.cn/xhgg/ssxg/2017/0630/149587.html

BTW, do you know what is LGL's last coaching advice to men's team?
It was before the final of 2017 WTTC. LGL told ML and FZD: First, if there is any doubt of a point, please be fair. If none of you are certain about it, follow the umpire's decision. I believe you two can do it. Second, it is understandable that the winner can be extremely excited. But the winner must not over-celebrate.

Sources: Table Tennis World Magazine, written by Xia Wa.
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=Mj...258&idx=1&sn=f3d4856713eaaf3f07aca49916fed603

no harm done so far, as expected...

you cant just punish hard your 3 best players including the grand slam when they are the current ambassadors of the sport both in and out of china. Especially when they are collateral damage of a political fight between other guys.

Manyu users were exaggerating and creating too much drama about the punishment, but I guess it was somehow not far from reality when gou has done so many stupid things, but this would draw even more negative attention and worldwide if the punishment was too severe