How to see the ball early ?

[ttmonster]

The title is a little bit of a misnomer , because literally we don't or can't really "see" the ball "early" , granted there are some people who are naturally blessed with above average vision and fighter pilot reflexes but mere mortals like us have a limit on either front.
So what we really develop is better skills to read cues from the opponents body positioning for a certain shot and guess where the ball is going to go.
Also, a large part of better footwork is actually dependent on developing this skill.

So far,there are a couple of things which have helped me , I would not say I am super disciplined on doing those regularly , wanted to discover if anybody else out there have better/novel ideas to develop this skill .

1. Having you partner randomly loop everywhere in the table table and trying to block these random balls. This is kind of dependent on the consistency of your partner and he/she should be willing to do it.
2. Random superfast multiballs , dependent on whether you have a coach or not.
3. Last but not the least , using the TTEDge App 15 minutes before bedtime . It might sound a little nerdy , but this has helped me in the past . However, I am not too disciplined on regularly doing it.

Anybody has any other ideas , other than some variations on the above three ?

 

[Xylit]

What does "using the TTEdge App" mean? Reading articles? Shadow exercises? Watching explain videos?

 

[ttmonster]

There are exercises within the TTEdge App, where you can train your brain to wait for the clues and decide whether the ball is going to your backhand , forehand , whether its topspin , nospin, underspin etc .. the free version has some levels and then you can pay approx. 10 USD for the paid version ( not sure , I got it way back when ) ... I have seen it helps with my game , again , I am not one of Brett's student , so I am not pimping it , just to be clear ...

What does "using the TTEdge App" mean? Reading articles? Shadow exercises? Watching explain videos?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Seeing the ball early is not just seeing the ball's direction (speed and placement), but also seeing the arc and seeing the spin

4) drills - set drills for 3 or 4 balls, then "any where" on the table
5) service return drills - reading the spin


I guess as a coach, I would use multi ball 80% of the time to train "seeing the ball early"

 

[Archosaurus]

I listen very closely to the sound coming from my opponent's hit. I feel it really helps with reading spin and speed.

 

[ttmonster]

I am aware of this Archo and the whole stomping the foot on serve reasoning .. however most of the times we play on the noisiest of clubs/halls and sometimes it does not work ... I have never consciously paid any attention to it , may be one of these days I will put some earplugs on just to see if it makes any difference .... I was looking for suggestions around innovative drills or things that we haven't heard about ... TBH ...

I listen very closely to the sound coming from my opponent's hit. I feel it really helps with reading spin and speed.

 

[allencorn]

I recommend experimenting for yourself. I few years ago I played around when drilling to pay attention to different cues when countering forehands or backhands - really watch the ball hit your partner's racket, watch for shoulder rotation, look for height over the net. I don't think there is any one magic formula, but there are so many cues to pick up on that you need to let your brain practice them all, then then in a match let you brain do what it has been trained to do.

Martina Navratolova once said, and I am paraphrasing from memory, you practice everything and practice as hard as you can, and then in a match you let go and hang on for the ride.

 

[ttmonster]

Nice tip ! Thank you !

I recommend experimenting for yourself. I few years ago I played around when drilling to pay attention to different cues when countering forehands or backhands - really watch the ball hit your partner's racket, watch for shoulder rotation, look for height over the net. I don't think there is any one magic formula, but there are so many cues to pick up on that you need to let your brain practice them all, then then in a match let you brain do what it has been trained to do.

Martina Navratolova once said, and I am paraphrasing from memory, you practice everything and practice as hard as you can, and then in a match you let go and hang on for the ride.

 

[Richie]

With this I feel like there's a wide range of things that when they all come together help you "see" the ball early.
When first learning those cues I guess you have to pay attention to them but with time it should be largely automatic and this is how you get good at anticipating where the ball is going.

Other things than which have been mentioned already, you could pay attention to your opponents stance - it is arguably much more difficult to loop down the line with a square stance to the table than with a more open stance, for example.

It also depends on your opponents skill level, at the higher level everything is more subtle or more deceptive, however you want to see it. So the cues you have to read become fewer and are more difficult to see.

If you want to understand where the ball is going before the opponent has hit the ball or is about to hit the ball, then watching your opponent will probably help with that, but again this should be more automatic as there will be no time to consciously do this in a game. Perhaps telling yourself the cues you need to look for in your opponent is more useful, just being aware of them and it will all come together with enough practice.

With reading spin or serves it's the same concept. Lots of things one ideally should be aware of, where was the contact point, how quickly was the bat moving during contact, thick or thin contact, flight of the ball after the first bounce, where the first bounce was on their side of the table.

It's impossible to consciously keep track of everything. There's probably much more than I've mentioned and I definitely don't even pay attention to all of the things I mentioned. Being aware of them, particularly when you're practicing I find helpful for when you then play a game. During practice you let your brain process everything that's happening and then after a lot of practice it computes them more and more automatically.

Some cues seem to be universal and some that seem to be specific to certain players. From the the way they move before hitting certain shots to the way they serve before doing a certain serve. Look at Michael Maze before he does his reverse serve, I'm not 100% sure but from what I've seen he seems to always do the same movements even before he starts the service motion for this serve. That was just an example, many players do something similar before doing certain serves. I think most people pick up on these pretty easily though and aren't meant to be deceptive. Some fake them and try to fool you and if they do you have another set of cues you need to learn. People who can serve any type of serve with the same pre-serve routine and similar serve motions will obviously have more subtle cues. If you can start paying attention to those and being aware of them then they should be easier to read with time.

I think the key points really is to figure out a few cues at a time which are particularly helpful and then practice while being aware of those without overthinking them too much. Then you'll slowly become better at anticipating where the ball will be going. I don't even think it's necessary to even be aware of any of the things I mentioned and that pure practice is enough, but as an adult player it might help to avoid overthinking.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Multiball can speed up practice to an extent that you can really be pressured for time. When you go back to regular speed play, your anticipation is improved for a while. If you do it enough, your anticipation gets better and better.

This is a drill for that.

For serve receive, you just have to practice a lot of serve receive to see all the variables.

Even if you knew that Michael Maze was about to serve reverse pendulum, there are many variations it still could be: back, back-side, side, top, top-side, light spin, heavy spin, no-spin. So there are still many ways of disguising what is coming.

The more you practice, the more you see the serves quicker. Some of seeing serves is seeing what the racket does with the ball. But some of reading serves is reading the spin in the bounce. The TTEdge App is great for helping you practice reading the serves. It is also good for getting you to see the cues of FH and BH in rallies. But multiball where you are being pushed and sped up to the limit of your abilities is where you will improve most at being ready for the next ball faster in rallies.

Even if you took a robot and put it on the shortest duration between balls and the ball was going to the same location over and over, that would actually increase your ability to anticipate where the next ball would go in regular play because of how much it would force you to increase your reset time.

 

[Richie]

Obviously there are also another set of cues for each variation of his reverse pendulum which you would also have to learn. Some are more obvious which one picks up on first (particularly the pre-serve routine), the others take more thought etc. It was just an example. Like you said in that first sentence - you need to practice them and see them for yourself. But if you don't even know what to look for (some people don't) then you'll struggle more than if you have some idea of what to spot and keep in mind.

 

[Ilia Minkin]

I believe that the ability to see the ball early is the real hallmark of a player's level. Given that, it is only after years and years of dedicated practice one can improve their ability to see the ball. Of course, the higher the quality of practice, the better this ability will be over time. But it is still a lot of hard work. There is no shortcut.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

And, for the rally, I think the biggest factor in adjusting quickly to where the next ball is going is how fast the reset is.

If you watch that video I posted of ZJK being fed random multiball that is quite fast, to me, the most amazing thing is, there is a point that is such a quick moment, where he could decide FH or BH and then he does his backswing as he adjusts to the next ball.

There also are a few places where he is about to chose one wing and decides to switch.

And the backswing for either stroke is so close to when he has to swing.

That reset to a neutral position is so fast you can barely see it. But it is there despite the speed of the multiball.

If you have a fast reset and you are in a neutral position it is much easier to see where the next ball is going.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[ttmonster]

I agree quick reset is a very important part of being able to buy as much time possible to react and also having a still head as soon as possible will enable better reading of cues ...

And, for the rally, I think the biggest factor in adjusting quickly to where the next ball is going is how fast the reset is.

If you watch that video I posted of ZJK being fed random multiball that is quite fast, to me, the most amazing thing is, there is a point that is such a quick moment, where he could decide FH or BH and then he does his backswing as he adjusts to the next ball.

There also are a few places where he is about to chose one wing and decides to switch.

And the backswing for either stroke is so close to when he has to swing.

That reset to a neutral position is so fast you can barely see it. But it is there despite the speed of the multiball.

If you have a fast reset and you are in a neutral position it is much easier to see where the next ball is going.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

For return of serves, one thing I notice watching the top players receive serve is:

Many of the top players have this ritual rhythm where, before the toss they get very low so their eyes are about net height, as the server tosses they come up most of the way and as the server contacts the ball they are getting lower again and that seems to give them an early start on moving to the serve.

I know for me, I have had a habit of being still before the serve and then it is much harder to move to the serve than if I try to imitate the ritual of the top players.

But it takes practice to get used to that. At first you are focusing on the movement and forget to watch the serve properly. But once it becomes a little more of a habit, then it becomes easier. And at a certain point it also helps you read the serve because you are active while watching.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[ttmonster]

This opens up anothen can of worms Carl ... I can tell you my experience with this ...

1. I have been trying to do the split step while receiving the serve , either the He Zhi Wen kind where he just moves alternate feet or the more traditional shuffle ... the key I find is is how to time it ...

2. My observation is the best time to time the shuffle is when the server is contacting the balll , why ? because this habit of timing it during the toss and then different people have different tosses for different serves and it kind of throws you out of rhythm if you time it with the toss ...

3. I have to be very conscious of not falling over , the whole bend down , get up , bend down routine creates a forward moentum and its very easy to fall over forward and if the opponent is smart they can serve long to either backhand deep or pocket to exploit this lack of balance ..

For return of serves, one thing I notice watching the top players receive serve is:

Many of the top players have this ritual rhythm where, before the toss they get very low so their eyes are about net height, as the server tosses they come up most of the way and as the server contacts the ball they are getting lower again and that seems to give them an early start on moving to the serve.

I know for me, I have had a habit of being still before the serve and then it is much harder to move to the serve than if I try to imitate the ritual of the top players.

But it takes practice to get used to that. At first you are focusing on the movement and forget to watch the serve properly. But once it becomes a little more of a habit, then it becomes easier. And at a certain point it also helps you read the serve because you are active while watching.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[Baal]

Here is something I have discovered, it is quite interesting about how we perceive things. The start was that I recently had one of those hallmark number birthdays and didn't like feeling old.

So, I have almost compulsively spent the entire spring and summer getting fitter. I have lost weight and even more body fat (~8 lbs since early June, mostly not through diet), and through road cycling have strengthened both legs and more importantly balanced the strength between them more. This also increased aerobic fitness and endurance. I have also spent a lot more table tennis time drilling footwork; mainly because now I am physically capable of doing it without getting tired or injured. 2-2 drills, 2-1 drills, Falkenburg drills, etc. A partner and I have been really disciplined about this since April. I am now really curious about how far this will take me (although I have to say that I am enjoying the cycling as much as the TT now, which is over time going to cut into some of my TT training*).

All that to say that I am moving much better than I have in about 20 years.

And the interesting thing now is that I have the sensation that I am seeing the ball better and earlier!! And yet my eyes haven't improved. What has improved is that seeing the ball "late" doesn't matter because I can more easily get to it in time and then hit a nice balanced shot with good body rotation. But I have to note again that this makes it seem like I am seeing earlier.

I guess, then all this lengthy stuff is to say that one way to "see the ball earlier" is to make it not matter much if you don't see the ball early! I know not everyone will want to do this. I hope I can sustain it (although at some point I will probably have to reduce the intensity of what I am doing).

* By the way, if you think TT is equipment-obsessed and a quick way to burn through loads of money in ill-considered ways, take my word for it, cycling is orders of magnitude worse! And like in TT, anything with carbon composited materials in it ups the price dramatically.

 

[ttmonster]

I had an inkling about the EJ part in cycling , I had a friend who was a cyclist and around 2200 in table tennis ... on this topic I tried to burn it in the gym , however my knees started giving problems , so I am back trying to lose it through swimming ....

Here is something I have discovered, it is quite interesting about how we perceive things. The start was that I recently had one of those hallmark number birthdays and didn't like feeling old.

So, I have almost compulsively spent the entire spring and summer getting fitter. I have lost weight and even more body fat (~8 lbs since early June, mostly not through diet), and through road cycling have strengthened both legs and more importantly balanced the strength between them more. This also increased aerobic fitness and endurance. I have also spent a lot more table tennis time drilling footwork; mainly because now I am physically capable of doing it without getting tired or injured. 2-2 drills, 2-1 drills, Falkenburg drills, etc. A partner and I have been really disciplined about this since April. I am now really curious about how far this will take me (although I have to say that I am enjoying the cycling as much as the TT now, which is over time going to cut into some of my TT training*).

All that to say that I am moving much better than I have in about 20 years.

And the interesting thing now is that I have the sensation that I am seeing the ball better and earlier!! And yet my eyes haven't improved. What has improved is that seeing the ball "late" doesn't matter because I can more easily get to it in time and then hit a nice balanced shot with good body rotation. But I have to note again that this makes it seem like I am seeing earlier.

I guess, then all this lengthy stuff is to say that one way to "see the ball earlier" is to make it not matter much if you don't see the ball early! I know not everyone will want to do this. I hope I can sustain it (although at some point I will probably have to reduce the intensity of what I am doing).

* By the way, if you think TT is equipment-obsessed and a quick way to burn through loads of money in ill-considered ways, take my word for it, cycling is orders of magnitude worse! And like in TT, anything with carbon composited materials in it ups the price dramatically.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Here is something I have discovered, it is quite interesting about how we perceive things. The start was that I recently had one of those hallmark number birthdays and didn't like feeling old.

So, I have almost compulsively spent the entire spring and summer getting fitter. I have lost weight and even more body fat (~8 lbs since early June, mostly not through diet), and through road cycling have strengthened both legs and more importantly balanced the strength between them more. This also increased aerobic fitness and endurance. I have also spent a lot more table tennis time drilling footwork; mainly because now I am physically capable of doing it without getting tired or injured. 2-2 drills, 2-1 drills, Falkenburg drills, etc. A partner and I have been really disciplined about this since April. I am now really curious about how far this will take me (although I have to say that I am enjoying the cycling as much as the TT now, which is over time going to cut into some of my TT training*).

All that to say that I am moving much better than I have in about 20 years.

And the interesting thing now is that I have the sensation that I am seeing the ball better and earlier!! And yet my eyes haven't improved. What has improved is that seeing the ball "late" doesn't matter because I can more easily get to it in time and then hit a nice balanced shot with good body rotation. But I have to note again that this makes it seem like I am seeing earlier.

I guess, then all this lengthy stuff is to say that one way to "see the ball earlier" is to make it not matter much if you don't see the ball early! I know not everyone will want to do this. I hope I can sustain it (although at some point I will probably have to reduce the intensity of what I am doing).

* By the way, if you think TT is equipment-obsessed and a quick way to burn through loads of money in ill-considered ways, take my word for it, cycling is orders of magnitude worse! And like in TT, anything with carbon composited materials in it ups the price dramatically.

This post has really useful info.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This opens up anothen can of worms Carl ... I can tell you my experience with this ...

1. I have been trying to do the split step while receiving the serve , either the He Zhi Wen kind where he just moves alternate feet or the more traditional shuffle ... the key I find is is how to time it ...

2. My observation is the best time to time the shuffle is when the server is contacting the balll , why ? because this habit of timing it during the toss and then different people have different tosses for different serves and it kind of throws you out of rhythm if you time it with the toss ...

3. I have to be very conscious of not falling over , the whole bend down , get up , bend down routine creates a forward moentum and its very easy to fall over forward and if the opponent is smart they can serve long to either backhand deep or pocket to exploit this lack of balance ..

Perhaps the timing is different for some. I think a person may need to practice it and play around with it to see what works. But the idea is that you get yourself moving before the serve so that you are ready to move to the serve while you read the spin.