Can we tell how popular TT is

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I would say in most places, table tennis is popular when compared to the sports in their countries.
Most people in they lives has played table tennis or ping pong or what ever it is called (it doesn't matter).

I am sporty and have played many sports, but for the average Joe, you can't say he has played golf, cricket, rugby, soccer, tennis, badminton etc even if it is just for fun.
I feel the chances of them having played TT once in they lives compared to other sport is pretty high.

Now the problem I see in most of the countries I visited (and the solution in where TT is popular) is the barrier of entry.

1) Is TT a primary school sport. If you don't get in early, the kids have other sporting codes to pursue. We not talking about getting them pro, but just having another extra mutual/sporting kids to offer.
In your Asian countries, TT is very big in primary school level. With recent success - kids are making a fuss with they parents to take part in TT.
when TT is big in schools, this created a lot of employments for coaches.

I once calculated and found 30000 schools in South Africa, of which 2000 is in Cape Town
There is only 20 clubs, and maybe less than 500 registered members in Cape Town.
At this rate, our "members" are outnumbered 1 to 4 to schools in Cape Town.

2) Whats more outside school, is there clubs? is the clubs well marketed - is there a website? in the community?
Is the club warm and friendly? after school programs for kids? holiday programs for kids?
programs for girls and ladies?

My conclusion with the basic 2 points above is table tennis is an male dominant sport, not friendly for new visitors, not run as a business model ie, not growing and including all genders, age groups. It is intimidating when new members and female members comes to clubs. Most of the club members play among themselves and it is different to break into they "gang". the better players will play with each other, while weaker players with each other. I found lots of clubs have this poor culture.
Most table tennis club and members are happy that they themselves are having fun and don't see a need to grow or share.

Just like in this forum, people just have fun talking about equipment. But when there are other threads where we have a couple of "experts", the experts will keep quiet and would not share they knowledge with others here.
Same thing in the real world. If the 500 members all keep quiet, how would you grow the sport?

 

[Loopadoop]

USA

Ping Pong participaton is growing. Table tennis is growing at the club level a lot in some areas. Table tennis at the National organization membership level is only slightly growing, considered very low compared to other leisure sports and other even smaller countries.

....

 

[Loopadoop]

In the USA, other leisure sports, pickleball, golf, tennis and softball all have a good participation of females.

 

[Der_Echte]

We can tell how popular TT is by noticing that in the same facilities that house TT clubs, Damned Friggin' PICKLEBALL has more participation and equipment sales.

That about says it all in USA.

Of course we have our own private infrastructure issues (enough space in a city is too expensive to lease unless your club has 200 paying members and 40 players taking lessons)… only immediate infrastructure is SCHOOLS and we are not going about it wisely in vast majority of cases.

 

[Loopadoop]

Wales of UK is TT friendly for prices vs the USA. They have a government run TT facility.

Adult membership €35 yr
2 hours coaching group €7
1 on 1 €16 or non peak times €12

Children membership €25 yr
2 hour coaching group €5

http://www.cardiffcitytabletennisclub.co.uk/prices

....

 

[Loopadoop]

The US Table Tennis problem is geography.

UK is about the same size of 2 USA states, New York and Pennsylvania combined.

UK population 66 million compared to those 2 states of 33 million.

UK registered TT players 28,000 vs Pennsylvania and New York combined, 3,000 max.

 

[NDH]

This is a topic that has been repeated over and over. But for the sake of it, here are my thoughts.

The UK has some pretty good accessibility to the sport once you can drive (I can count at least 5 different leagues within half an hour drive of my house, each league containing multiple divisions/standards, each division containing 10 teams on average).

As a junior, it's not so simple - There are junior coaching sessions available (group coaching), but these are few and far between, and generally happen for an hour per week in a set location.

Compare that with the numerous other sports the juniors in the UK are exposed to (soccer, rugby, football, tennis, cricket) etc etc, and you can see why it's not massively popular at a junior level.

Moving on to the TV side of things......

In a word - People find it boring.

It's exactly why "most" people in the UK (and I expect around the world), would watch an NFL game and think:

"What the hell is this? God this is boring". As Team X run a half back draw for 1 year, followed by a time out and a load of talking.

A full table tennis match (not the highlights) has almost the exact same impact on most casual viewers.

I remember getting my family to watch one of the world championships once (I think in 2017).

Serve, push in the net.

Serve, return, 3rd ball kill.

Serve, flick long.

Apart from a few points in each game, it's just not a fun sport to watch if you are a casual viewer.

I would love to see a highlights show (weekly/monthly) rounding up all of the recent action - This would at least make it exciting to watch!

People talk about Barry Hearn below, and whilst I'm not keen on him, he's done a super job with the World Championship of Ping Pong.

I forced my entire family to watch this years championship, and they were all glued to the TV!

There were very few "silly mistakes" and the rallies were long, exciting with some epic shots.

Off the back of it, my son who has shown no interest in table tennis previously, has now quit soccer and started going to coaching sessions!

I can't see the general infrastructure across nations changing anytime soon - But the general marketing and media coverage of the sport could increase dramatically.

For what it's worth - There was little/no media coverage of Andrey Baggaleys win this year, only the Sky Sports TV coverage at the time.

 

[Loopadoop]

An idea for sport development, can you recruit 1 new member a month from your circle of friends, relatives, co-workers, church members ?

Then you can be their club liason and mentor for development and cohesion.

A lot of players can talk here but can you actually help the sport grow at your club level ?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

An idea for sport development, can you recruit 1 new member a month from your circle of friends, relatives, co-workers, church members ?

Then you can be their club liason and mentor for development and cohesion.

A lot of players can talk here but can you actually help the sport grow at your club level ?

I personally think grow by clubs is not fruitful.

Club should be your higher level players, and not everyone whats to be competitive.
You need to think of masses, and masses will be social players or school players, so I would advise having tables setup in schools and community centres (for social players).

I think your suggestion of bringing one player to the club can be transferred to opening table tennis program in 1 school.

from the other thread, USA has so much tables sold every year..... I would say, follow the table

 

[starsky27]

In the London area there has been a big increase recently in the number of outside tables made available for free to the public along with ping pong bars that have opened up. Both of these projects in my mind are more valuable in introducing new players to our game than opening up new clubs etc. The outside tables are especially valuable for introducing children all though the bars do let children play during the day.
These places have proved very popular at least in my home town.

 

[Loopadoop]

I personally think grow by clubs is not fruitful.

Club should be your higher level players, and not everyone whats to be competitive.
You need to think of masses, and masses will be social players or school players, so I would advise having tables setup in schools and community centres (for social players).

I think your suggestion of bringing one player to the club can be transferred to opening table tennis program in 1 school.

from the other thread, USA has so much tables sold every year..... I would say, follow the table

At a microeconomics club level, to increase membership can be very beneficial, especially with individual club members emotionally invested with their personal recruitment.

 

[NDH]

I personally think grow by clubs is not fruitful.

Club should be your higher level players, and not everyone whats to be competitive.
You need to think of masses, and masses will be social players or school players, so I would advise having tables setup in schools and community centres (for social players).

I think your suggestion of bringing one player to the club can be transferred to opening table tennis program in 1 school.

from the other thread, USA has so much tables sold every year..... I would say, follow the table

The issue I see with "social" players is that they never contribute to a club, and end up playing with a mate or two at a local table somewhere.

Similar to what @starsky said below, there are a number of outside tables and places in shopping centre (malls) where you can now play.

They are always being used by people - Although very rarely are those people members of clubs, or play at any other time.

I guess there needs to be a definition of what "growing the sport" actually looks like.

Do those people who play on the outside tables count towards the numbers? I doubt it.

How can we convert them from casual players to competitive players? I'm sure a few more would do so if they knew what path to take.

 

[Loopadoop]

There are lot of former athletes in other sports, who are aging, looking to fill a competitive void. They learn tt skills fairly quickly with a little coaching and table time.

 

[NDH]

There are lot of former athletes in other sports, who are aging, looking to fill a competitive void. They learn tt skills fairly quickly with a little coaching and table time.

This is actually another "issue" I'd say (certainly in the UK).

People are coming to the sport later, as a retirement type activity.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that they have something to do, but you need to get the juniors involved early on and keep them in the sport!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The issue I see with "social" players is that they never contribute to a club, and end up playing with a mate or two at a local table somewhere.

Similar to what @starsky said below, there are a number of outside tables and places in shopping centre (malls) where you can now play.

They are always being used by people - Although very rarely are those people members of clubs, or play at any other time.

I guess there needs to be a definition of what "growing the sport" actually looks like.

Do those people who play on the outside tables count towards the numbers? I doubt it.

How can we convert them from casual players to competitive players? I'm sure a few more would do so if they knew what path to take.

I think there is way too much goal in terms of converting social players to club players.
If the social player wants to join the club - they will do so.

for example, I play basketball socially with some mates. I have no intention of joining a club for that. I just want to play socially.

Now while it comes table tennis, the focus is club?
I have a long post above that the barrier of entry for these social players into clubs isn't welcoming.
I think the goal is to first indirectly have a (unofficial) big number of players (social or club) interested in table tennis.
Once you have more active players (social/club), then you will have more coaching opportunities, equipment sales (talking economics). Maybe some of them would want to play tournaments, who knows. But the goal is to first make table tennis easier to access and not to limit to clubs only.

Same as school. School table tennis is also social. Not all your kids will go the club root. Let that be.

In Beijing, you have a good 2 million players.
do you think they all play in a league/tournament?
No, but they eventually add to the viewership - and that what brings in money.

The same theory can be shifted towards soccer.
How many fans actually plays club soccer? Not a lot....
So I think we are over weighing the important of having club numbers/membership numbers

Imo, viewership/fans are the best numbers to have.
club membership doesn't mean anything as that will always be a much smaller number than fans. pretty certain all sports is similar.

 

[NDH]

I think there is way too much goal in terms of converting social players to club players.
If the social player wants to join the club - they will do so.

for example, I play basketball socially with some mates. I have no intention of joining a club for that. I just want to play socially.

Now while it comes table tennis, the focus is club?
I have a long post above that the barrier of entry for these social players into clubs isn't welcoming.
I think the goal is to first indirectly have a (unofficial) big number of players (social or club) interested in table tennis.
Once you have more active players (social/club), then you will have more coaching opportunities, equipment sales (talking economics). Maybe some of them would want to play tournaments, who knows. But the goal is to first make table tennis easier to access and not to limit to clubs only.

Same as school. School table tennis is also social. Not all your kids will go the club root. Let that be.

In Beijing, you have a good 2 million players.
do you think they all play in a league/tournament?
No, but they eventually add to the viewership - and that what brings in money.

The same theory can be shifted towards soccer.
How many fans actually plays club soccer? Not a lot....
So I think we are over weighing the important of having club numbers/membership numbers

I agree to an extent, but a lot of that will depend on good media coverage - The soccer example being perfect there.

People follow a team, typically from a young age. You don't need to play the sport to follow the team, because you'll see the results in the news and watch the games on the TV (it also helps that most youngsters can play football at school, and you only need 1 ball between 22 kids to do that).

I disagree that the social players will drive coaching opportunities and equipment sales, because that only happens once you get to a club, take an interest in the sport and want to develop.

Most social players don't want to do that - The closest example I can think of is Golf.

Tons of social players who buy their clubs when they start, never have a Golf lesson and don't ever change equipment.

In Europe at least, the emphasis has to be on developing the clubs, the leagues and the overall participation across these two aspects.

If little Jimmy is playing against his Dad at home in the garage on a table.... Well, we'll never be able to add them to the "participation list" because it's a little bit too social (if that makes sense).

 

[Loopadoop]

In the USA, in some areas, the need is to get club numbers up, so other sport athlete conversions is a way, they will help get their kids and grandkids involved too. That is how a lot of clubs in rural America have been developed.

 

[NDH]

I know this particular topic has been done to death, but I also think having a universal ranking system will not only help at the start, but help keep people interested.

The US, despite it's relatively small playing community are very vocal about their USTT rating - It seems to dominate the online discussions around this subject.

The UK now have TT365, which is still a work in progress, and has a few flaws.

It would be good to somehow get a comparison between USTT and TT365.

At a bit of a guess, I'd suggest that a US 2000 rated player is about the same as a TT365 2100 level player.

 

[Loopadoop]

My opinion and experience, USA ratings keep older players from participating in sanctioned tournaments.

A division system is better to keep players from dwelling on their rating.

Tin-Tin Ho USA rating is 2462, what is her UK rating ?

 

[NDH]

My opinion and experience, USA ratings keep older players from participating in sanctioned tournaments.

A division system is better to keep players from dwelling on their rating.

Tin-Tin Ho USA rating is 2462, what is her UK rating ?

This is where life gets overly complicated (and why I believe someone needs to develop a universal system).

The TT365 rating system has only recently come into play. Tin Tin Ho hasn't played in the local leagues recently, and therefore doesn't have a rating.

Most of the "top" players in the UK won't be playing in local league stuff.

Do you know of any other UK player who has a USTT rating?