to answer your question on why a hardcore Federer fan says that even his GOAT -ness can be questioned :
1. The only criteria where Roger wins unquestionably is the how beautiful his game is .. which is the same criteria that RidtheKid is bringing up again again to defend Ma Long is the GOAT ... yes in only and only in terms of beautiful form and anticipation you can argue that about Ma Long and Roger .. .but again some would argue Waldner had better anticipation and understanding of the game than Ma Long .. so even that falls flat on face of that argument ...
2. Apart from #1 , Roger has worse head to head against Djokovic and Nadal .. and now Thiem..
3. I doubt Roger would have won the sole French Open he did if a certain Mr. Soderling had not taken care of business vs Nadal ...
4. Its very likely , soon Djoker would take over the lead in number of Grand Slams ... then his fans will argue that he is the GOAT ...
5. Coming up Roger was not able to beat Sampras till his decline started ...
6. Other than all that nobody has a better Grand Slams record than Mr. Rod Lever ...
the list goes on and on ... so you can only claim that nobody has in his era , he was the best player in the world and he has set a new standard in Men's tennis which others are now following ...
There are a lot of criteria one can argue whenever you claim somebody is the GOAT ... so it will all be controversial my friend ... so for the last time ... there is no GOAT !
Pardon my digression ... but somehow I feel this kind of fanaticism is deep rooted in human nature ... its the easier way out .. rather than rationally analyzing and accepting the strengths and weaknesses of somebody or something you like its always easier to think in black and white .. this guys is the GOAT .. is somehow similar , may be not exactly but similar in nature , to "my culture is the best", "my religion is the truest" and "my people are the most friendly" ... etc. ... this is the due to our inherent laziness of analytical mindset ... its easier to think in terms of absolutes and suspend judgement ... because you need to do less thinking ... at the end of the day there is no absolute its all relative ... its relative to the time and space you are , your life experiences and how you have been affected by it ...
I will tell you guys a story .. growing up in India ... we were all cricket fans .. but in the 90s suddenly this betting scandal came out and pretty much every player or cricketing idol was found to be somehow or the other other involved in it ... imagine the disillusion and disappointment that followed ... so I feel its much better to take your idols with a pinch of salt , accept they are human and there always will be somebody greater and better in something ... its true about anything in life .. .
No one is GOAT.
Or every one is GOAT. (Although I don't see LGL nominated, the only penholder GS winner while MLin and WH were discussed a lot.)
I guess this can settle many people in this thread.
I do feel surprised that a hardcore Roger Federer fan says Roger Federer is not GOAT in tennis. I know there are debates, maybe 2 more candidates involved. But from an outsider view, more titles, more #1 ranking, why is not him? Because of poorer h2h against certain players?
Put tennis aside, is there any badminton fan or Lin Dan fan here, thinking Lin Dan not GOAT in badminton? I really want to know why.
Many say they don't care if there's GOAT in TT and don't care who is (are) and they spent a good time explaining why there shouldn't be or who shouldn't be (including myself, I insist only 2 candidates, JW and ML). I have a quick question for the senior members here, was there such debate after 2012 OG or 2013 WTTC? If yes, what's the general idea by then? If not, why?
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