How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

[vvk1]

okay my internet connection is so bad I need to post each game separately. will do that after I finish watching VTV play their Nederlands Dames match

Hi Ben. I see you're uploading raw MTS files to Youtube. Try converting MTS to MP4 on your PC first, for example, using Handbrake (https://handbrake.fr/). The resulting MP4 files will be much smaller and will take far less time to upload to/get processed on YouTube.

 

[Brs]

Hi Ben. I see you're uploading raw MTS files to Youtube. Try converting MTS to MP4 on your PC first, for example, using Handbrake (https://handbrake.fr/). The resulting MP4 files will be much smaller and will take far less time to upload to/get processed on YouTube.

Thanks!

 

[LDM7]

alrighty then ... @Littledragonman7 why did I win or lose?

@Brs

Thank you for posting and the opportunity to provide feedback on your first game. This is not an easy exercise for me

Firstly I love the compactness of your BH (0:26)

I also like your ability to return serve returns early (1:54)

It is my opinion service return is one of your strengths. After netting the initial two BH returns (reaching, ball not in strike zone, lack of leverage) you got back on track nicely, putting each ball in play. You also stressed the other (2:57) winning that point outright!

I am not completely in the know why you missed FHs

(1:03 since the ball was lower energy and slow to FH strike zone, could you have waited and let ball come to you more or would by then ball be too low?)

(1:25 idk)

My conjecture (1:45 ball sailed long b/c could’ve use more forward momentum?)

(3:10 you whiffed, I slowed vid to .25 speed, watched many times and saw a little hop backwards … could that have contributed missing that ball?

Finally of the 11 points missed, I feel 7 of them you were not under extreme pressure (4 miss FHs, one miss serve (2:41), two initial service returns)

In closing, I note your BH dTL (1:17) were initially effective. I don’t believe I saw many middle table BHs. By match point, the other was expecting (used to this pattern) and won on his FH crosscourt

I will watch game 2 & 3 another time

 

[Der_Echte]

Wow, brs posts match footage for first time in almost a decade and no one wanna comment. let's give it another day, maybe spam botters bummed everyone out.

 

[Der_Echte]

Wow, brs posts match footage for first time in almost a decade and no one wanna comment. let's give it another day, maybe spam botters bummed everyone out.

Triple haha as LDM hit the send button .23 seconds before I did.

GREAT, let's read what LDM7 said.

 

[LDM7]

Triple haha as LDM hit the send button .23 seconds before I did.

GREAT, let's read what LDM7 said.

let's all NOT & say we did ... thanks all for letting me have the first dib

 

[Der_Echte]

I will add comments Monday... lots to see and lots to say. I think LDM7 will be surprised at a few things.

 

[Wrighty67]

alrighty then ... @Littledragonman7 why did I win or lose?

I am not going to comment as I really don't feel qualified to add any value other than to say - great play!

 

[NextLevel]

Watching the first game, I can tell that the guy in blue doesn't think there is a chance in hell he can lose. And watching his strokes, I see a fairly high level which I went to Omnipong to confirm. That said, analysis might illuminate but it can't tell the whole story.

 

[NextLevel]

Oh, the guy definitely shows his true level in game 2.

 

[NextLevel]

BRS played well. That's just a tough opponent. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.

 

[Der_Echte]

BRS played well. That's just a tough opponent. That's my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Yes. What is happening is brs is playing vs a player several levels better than him. When you do that, you are going to mis-time stuff, mis-read stuff, be under pressure, not anticipate as well as you should, etc and give up points. That is what better players do to you. Like you said, you could almost see it right away, this guy was not worried at all, and it wasn't brs fault.

brs played a fast hitting game with spin... this opponent was very comfortable playing fast at the table. brs could not find the middle often, because his middle was targeted on blocks and brs was busy trying to win down the open lanes.

We could look at every point he didn't win and say he coulda done this or that, but in real life, a player several levels better than you will do this to you in nearly every facet of the game.

Tactically and technically, maybe brs would have been better served spinning heavier and slowly on some shots instead of playing the same speed mostly. Maybe brs could have served short or halflong and gotten balls to spin up instead of blast. Maybe brs coulda aimed for the middle on some of his openers. Maybe he coulda gotten down and waited on a few balls or taken a half step forward.... didn't matter much, this guy was gunna boss the points the games and the outcome anyway.

What does one do when they face such an opponent? ENJOY it and work on doing things that pressure opponents levels above you. Look for tactical mis-matches, practice serves and have fun.

 

[Wrighty67]

"What is happening is brs is playing vs a player several levels better than him. When you do that, you are going to mis-time stuff, mis-read stuff, be under pressure, not anticipate as well as you should, etc and give up points. That is what better players do to you. Like you said, you could almost see it right away, this guy was not worried at all, and it wasn't brs fault"

This is just so true - on Sunday I played in a local district tournament and ended up in a group with the country no1 and no 2 vets (so much for seeding) Against both of them I experienced exactly what DE describes above - I just couldn't find a way in to the games, my timing was out, my footwork was poor and so I just kept making unforced errors - I did enjoy it though.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Hi BRS
That was a pretty good outing for your return.
Given yr opponent was a bit stronger it seemS unfair to criticise the tactics.
However I thought yr punchy BH counterhitting would have worked even better if you had been able to insert some soft short blocks to his FH. Pushing people back works better if you are also pulling them in from time to time.
I thought yr FH Topspin off his push suffered from letting the ball drop below peak sometimes.
Looking forward to yr next showing!

 

[IB66]

Hi BRS,

Great that you posted a match, and nice to see you playing!! And playing well.

Tough opponent.

As NL said he just looked like he was almost disinterested, nonchalant. Maybe that’s just his way.

Usually when someone has this demeanour they have either seen you play and assessed that you pose no real threat. (I’ve been on the end of this attitude myself a few times!!!! and taken a beating!!! If he had played me he probably could have taken a nap and won!!!)
Or you have previous history and the track record is heavily in his favour.???

Perhaps he was a bit too relaxed in the 3rd, he nearly let it slip, you improved with each end, bettering the previous games score.

A great vid, I enjoyed watching you play, hopefully there will be more to come!!

 

[Brs]

@Brs

Thank you for posting and the opportunity to provide feedback on your first game. This is not an easy exercise for me

Firstly I love the compactness of your BH (0:26)

I also like your ability to return serve returns early (1:54)
Actually kind of long for SP backhand, and too late off the bounce. But the second one was a sharp hit and effective.

It is my opinion service return is one of your strengths. After netting the initial two BH returns (reaching, ball not in strike zone, lack of leverage) you got back on track nicely, putting each ball in play. You also stressed the other (2:57) winning that point outright!
The first serve surprised me by how heavy it was. Then I made the dreaded pre-decision. I figured since he beat me on backspin once, the next one must be side, or top. it wasn't. Simply looking at the ball and not thinking ahead would be better. 2:57 shows the power of an unexpected receive. Mine was garbage really, but he had totally committed to playing a forehand. He shouldn't drop the bat below table height like that either, slowed his adjustment a lot.

I am not completely in the know why you missed FHs

(1:03 since the ball was lower energy and slow to FH strike zone, could you have waited and let ball come to you more or would by then ball be too low?)
Ah yes, that was very painful in real time. I knew I needed that point badly to win the game. Things went wrong two strokes before. I pushed poorly and then stood up to watch my poor push. It was the standing up that killed it. I took a step over to my left and made the block, but I had to slide over more after contact. That left me out of position to move forward on the short high ball and I gave away a free point I had earned. Sad.
(1:25 idk)
Similar. The error originates on the receive. I saw a long forehand and started to pivot. It would have been half-long and I should have gone with my initial read. But I chickened out and went for a bh flip from deep table. That's okay, I got a long forehand, but in resetting my feet I rolled back on my heels. Look where I hop to on contact - sideways and back. The ball has no body behind it and no. momentum, so it dies off the net. Sad.

My conjecture (1:45 ball sailed long b/c could’ve use more forward momentum?)
I indicated with my body why I thought I missed after the shot. I am playing very flat-footed and lazy by this time in the day. His ball came almost perfect to me, but not quite. If I had moved 2 or 3 inches it would have been an easy winner. But instead I jammed myself and curved back, and missed the shot. Lazy. and Sad.

(3:10 you whiffed, I slowed vid to .25 speed, watched many times and saw a little hop backwards … could that have contributed missing that ball?
Yes! That hop backwards is horrible! Also I must not have been watching the ball really as I should. I was completely set up for a fh, got it, and whiffed. Sad.

Finally of the 11 points missed, I feel 7 of them you were not under extreme pressure (4 miss FHs, one miss serve (2:41), two initial service returns)

In closing, I note your BH dTL (1:17) were initially effective. I don’t believe I saw many middle table BHs. By match point, the other was expecting (used to this pattern) and won on his FH crosscourt.
I am very predictable in my ball placements. Backhands always going down the line is my strongest tendency and everyone picks up on it. That doesn't make it bad necessarily. At 1:17 he was able to play back down the line, but most people will go cross-court into my fh counter. I'm okay with that pattern. I would only say, if you are going to play into a 2200 guy's forehand, you better put some quality into the ball. I didn't put enough.

I will watch game 2 & 3 another time

Thanks for watching, and great comments LDM7. I put some thoughts in-line above.

 

[Der_Echte]

LDM7 had a very productive session yesterday, got pretty much as much data going on as many players get in a few months of 1 hr a week lessons.

Sergey Tsos made a guest appearance and helped out the spice and variety, added random and another set of eyes.
LDM7 showing all kind of improvement in touch (control of grip at impact) in push and blocking. He is starting to realize he can control the ball with grip and angle... and do several things to disturn timing of opponent and increase his chances in a rally.

 

[Wrighty67]

Hi team

I’ve a couple of videos that I would appreciate feedback on pls.

1st one is BH loop V4 backspin and 2nd one is FH loop vs under spin.

My big focus on FH following recent comments on here, was to involve less upper arm and shoulder and drive spin through forearm and wrist - keeping elbow low.

Before I invest further time grooving this, does this look fundamentally closer to that?

FH

BH

Thanks all.

 

[SleepyMaster]

For me it’s pretty easy job to separate emotions, from concentrating on a basic stuff, that usually helps to win more matches. Usually it’s serve/receive and third ball attack. Besides ttennis i did a few sports, pretty successfully on a national level. I met a lot of guys with 5 or even 10 years of training, and they make the same mistakes again and again, emotions taking over , making them unable to have control of the game.
After every point i try to make an easy quick analyze of an error that was made by me, and I do an adjustment about what i should and can do better on the next point to prevent such of an errors.
Besides matches, on a regular trainings with a coach, i always try to work on my weakest spots, or aspects of the game for making constants improvements. If i have lose many points on a tourney, such as, for example, bad receive of a wide, quick and spiny pendulum - i will work on that, etc.
After one year of training i was able to grow up to 1900-2000 level. But it takes 5 days a week 3-3,5 hour of training with coach and sparring partners + 1 hour serving practice each day. And 6th day is a tourney - to sum up all of the stuff that i work of on a week. To be honest, before that i was thinking that table tennis is pretty easy sport, well now, i know how hard it can be. Good luck on your progress, guys. And always try to remember, that first and foremost we doing it for fun, so try to have as much fun as you can, even when you seeking for improvements 😌

 

[dingyibvs]

Hi team

I’ve a couple of videos that I would appreciate feedback on pls.

1st one is BH loop V4 backspin and 2nd one is FH loop vs under spin.

My big focus on FH following recent comments on here, was to involve less upper arm and shoulder and drive spin through forearm and wrist - keeping elbow low.

Before I invest further time grooving this, does this look fundamentally closer to that?

FH

BH

Thanks all.

I remember that you have some calf issue, but do you have any knee/leg issues as well? If not then lifting backspin on the FH side is probably best done with the legs.

Also, in terms of timing, your FH loop is hitting the ball at the top of the bounce. That's the ideal timing for a loop drive. If you want to brush loop then it's usually better at the falling stage. You get better grip of the ball that way and you can get better consistency, spin, and a lower trajectory.