Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

NDH

says Spin to win!

NDH

says Spin to win!
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Feb 2016
1,589
2,715
4,906
Read 3 reviews
I have a serious question. Might be controversial, but please bear with me and help me satisfy my innate curiosity,

Is it a good idea to look at these old footage of players from yesteryears other than for nostalgic / entertainment reason?

During those yesteryears, the ball used were smaller and hence the technique employed would be different from the current 40++ mm ball era. From a technical perspective I opined that they are useless to watch other than for nostalgia / entertainment purpose.

What does players her say? Is my assertion correct or incorrect?

P/s Gozo is putting on a flame retardant suit.
Like with most things in TT over the last 50 years, the only major changes I can see involve the very top players (professional).

There is a slight trickle down to the various levels below that, and there have been very small coaching theory changes for juniors/beginners..... But IMO, 99% remains true.

As a good amateur, if you can spin the ball on both wings and can hit consistent top spin loops, you will be winning a lot of games at any point in the history of the sport.

Whilst the trend of closer to the table, fast attacking play has become more of the norm at the professional level, at *most* levels of amateur play, spin is still king.

If you can come close to replicating any of those older players, you'll be doing very very well.

As NL said, it's also much more likely that us mere mortals will replicate someone who isn't ridiculously athletic like the CNT or most other pro players.

I also think it's why I usually disagree when I see people wanting to copy the technique of the Chinese - It's just an extremely athletic technique that relies so much on fitness and speed.

The Euro style is better when out of position, and I'd hazard a guess that most people are like me...... Constantly playing out of position 😂
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
13,493
14,299
32,463
Read 27 reviews
Rory Scott's club motto is WINNING BY SPINNING... and of course Der_Echte likes to SPIN TO WIN or Spins First and Asks Questions Later.

There are good reasons for this.

Even with the new gen ABS balls having less potential spin, you can still spin heavy and get easy points.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2020
217
256
2,031
Read 1 reviews
Talking about Jörgen Persson, nostalgia and old balls… I just wanted to share this clip that I recently found on YouTube. Such a great game and what an entertainment! I like the new balls, but I somehow wish that table tennis could be like this again.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
This user has no status.
Talking about Jörgen Persson, nostalgia and old balls… I just wanted to share this clip that I recently found on YouTube. Such a great game and what an entertainment! I like the new balls, but I somehow wish that table tennis could be like this again.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>
is it just me or does that net look lower than modern ones....its probably just me or the older filming quality
but the kept the balls way lower back then than they do now, really interesting game
 
  • Like
Reactions: SamTheMan
says Making a beautiful shot is most important; winning is...
says Making a beautiful shot is most important; winning is...
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Mar 2021
4,848
5,737
12,094
I watched Kara's video above and I wish to share some personal observation:

1. Video of ML vs Kara:
It appears that it is much easier to distinguish the Euro vs Chinese style during those years ( 2019 ) as oppose to these days. These days, CNT & Euro players are both playing a very athletic, power oriented game that emphasize power & speed. In another words, the difference between Euro & Asian players is getting very narrow almost indistinguishable. My coach always told me, nowadays, this is the way to play modern TT.

Kara is using placement and spin to win his points while ML is just being ML, using his whole body mechanics to put his power shots pass Kara's defense.

2. Video of Jorgen Perrson vs Kara ( 2008 Beijing Olympics R64 MS )
From the sound of the ball hitting, I conclude that these two players were using stiff blade with softer rubber because I can hear the sound of the ball hitting the wood. I see that these two players are playing a more tactical game, with placement and spin taking priority over speed and power.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Egon
says Making a beautiful shot is most important; winning is...
says Making a beautiful shot is most important; winning is...
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Mar 2021
4,848
5,737
12,094
Like with most things in TT over the last 50 years, the only major changes I can see involve the very top players (professional).

There is a slight trickle down to the various levels below that, and there have been very small coaching theory changes for juniors/beginners..... But IMO, 99% remains true.

As a good amateur, if you can spin the ball on both wings and can hit consistent top spin loops, you will be winning a lot of games at any point in the history of the sport.

Whilst the trend of closer to the table, fast attacking play has become more of the norm at the professional level, at *most* levels of amateur play, spin is still king.

If you can come close to replicating any of those older players, you'll be doing very very well.

As NL said, it's also much more likely that us mere mortals will replicate someone who isn't ridiculously athletic like the CNT or most other pro players.

I also think it's why I usually disagree when I see people wanting to copy the technique of the Chinese - It's just an extremely athletic technique that relies so much on fitness and speed.

The Euro style is better when out of position, and I'd hazard a guess that most people are like me...... Constantly playing out of position 😂
As folks here know, I am under a professional coach and there are some variation of what is being taught to me with respect with what NDH's post above. As usual, there are no right or wrong answer, just different approach maybe.

1. NDH said, " Whilst the trend of closer to the table, fast attacking play has become more of the norm at the professional level, at *most* levels of amateur play, spin is still king. "
My coach is advocating me to play a fast attacking game. When I do spin / loop the ball high & archy, he will correct me and told me to drive more. It appears he advocate fast return. He always told me to hit off the bounce or at the first timing.

2. NDH said, " If you can come close to replicating any of those older players, you'll be doing very very well."
High spinny shot is a no-no for him. Fast - fast drive he approves.

3. I don't think he ( the coach ) wants me to play CNT style, neither nor in my opinion, he is advocating the Euro style. Maybe his is the Malaysian style? I don't know. He is the master, I am his student. He is the coder, he writes the coding, I am the user.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Takkyu_wa_inochi
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Oct 2014
19,976
26,539
70,891
Read 17 reviews
I watched a few CNT FH training videos recently and the real weird thing is that they actually practice loops with their racket leg in front. What is the point of doing that practice deliberately?
You really want to only hit loops when everything is perfect?
 
  • Like
Reactions: blahness

NDH

says Spin to win!

NDH

says Spin to win!
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Feb 2016
1,589
2,715
4,906
Read 3 reviews
As folks here know, I am under a professional coach and there are some variation of what is being taught to me with respect with what NDH's post above. As usual, there are no right or wrong answer, just different approach maybe.

1. NDH said, " Whilst the trend of closer to the table, fast attacking play has become more of the norm at the professional level, at *most* levels of amateur play, spin is still king. "
My coach is advocating me to play a fast attacking game. When I do spin / loop the ball high & archy, he will correct me and told me to drive more. It appears he advocate fast return. He always told me to hit off the bounce or at the first timing.

2. NDH said, " If you can come close to replicating any of those older players, you'll be doing very very well."
High spinny shot is a no-no for him. Fast - fast drive he approves.

3. I don't think he ( the coach ) wants me to play CNT style, neither nor in my opinion, he is advocating the Euro style. Maybe his is the Malaysian style? I don't know. He is the master, I am his student. He is the coder, he writes the coding, I am the user.
A good coach will adapt their coaching to suit the student.

A good student will adapt their play to suit the opponent - As you masterfully showed against the older woman who is a very good blocker.

You explained that by changing your faster attacks for slower spins, you won the game easily.

If the student has below average movement and reach, then teaching them to play a metre behind the table and top spinning/counter spinning shots just isn’t going to be a good idea.

You have to coach to their strengths, and work around their limitations.

For me, being such a big guy, my limitation is close to the table in a high speed exchange. My gorilla like arms are just too long and slow to excel in that area.

So your coach will hopefully have his reasons for coaching you the way he is, rather than just blindly coaching everyone the same……

That being said, I’m yet to see a situation where good quality spin isn’t the best weapon in amateur matches.

For you personally, your coach has done a good job up to now, and in time, you’ll have the ability to comfortably play either style to suit how you want to play against a specific opponent.

As always…. Good coach > random internet man stating his opinion 😂
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Oct 2014
19,976
26,539
70,891
Read 17 reviews
A good coach will adapt their coaching to suit the student.

A good student will adapt their play to suit the opponent - As you masterfully showed against the older woman who is a very good blocker.

You explained that by changing your faster attacks for slower spins, you won the game easily.

If the student has below average movement and reach, then teaching them to play a metre behind the table and top spinning/counter spinning shots just isn’t going to be a good idea.

You have to coach to their strengths, and work around their limitations.

For me, being such a big guy, my limitation is close to the table in a high speed exchange. My gorilla like arms are just too long and slow to excel in that area.

So your coach will hopefully have his reasons for coaching you the way he is, rather than just blindly coaching everyone the same……

That being said, I’m yet to see a situation where good quality spin isn’t the best weapon in amateur matches.

For you personally, your coach has done a good job up to now, and in time, you’ll have the ability to comfortably play either style to suit how you want to play against a specific opponent.

As always…. Good coach > random internet man stating his opinion 😂
I will go even further- good coach in person better than good internet pundit stating his opinion.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2015
1,022
1,356
4,826
Read 8 reviews
Travelled to a club in the nearby town (54km away) with a few friends.
It was after a long day at work, but my friend drove, so it was great as I get to have a bit of rest prior to playing.
On the way to and fro, we discussed about the competition that we are planning. It is so much better discussing in person than via a screen.

Got there, our captain knew their top player, so he quickly introduced me to him, and I got to play him first. The club environment was alot more busier than I expect in a small rural town! Lots of kids, and there are also ppl in their 30s and 40s, and all the way up to the 70s-80s.

A bit of info on their top player, he used to come over to the town that I am in currently to play, as there was a Chinese girl that that is no 1-2 state wise. Apparently he improved significantly during that period, and that the captain could not beat him after that period due to his improvement. As I warm up with him, he certainly had that feeling that he had trained before. We were hitting constant forehands without missing for a min or 2, so he can warm up well. In game situation, as it was the first time we play, we weren't too used to each other's serves. I noticed that he likes to attack with his forehand (like me lol), so it was more who does it first. I attacked a few by pivoting but he had a few good blocks down the line, so he got up in lead 9-6 or 9-7. I somehow caught up by doing some backhand banana flip vs his light spin serves, and I guess that caught him off guard as there would be no one in his club that does that. I only did it as I was not able to push that ball properly, so I attempt the banana and against light spin serves, it goes relatively fast. I won the first set, but then he won the 2nd set with a bigger score difference (11-7 I think). Then third set, I start out strong, and I finished it 11-2. It was great to play someone who has some proper training strokes, but like me, he suffers from having no one to train with.. I took the opportunity to exchange numbers so we might organise some training together (despite the distance between us).

After that, it was mostly other members asking me and my friends to play doubles. Not much of a training opportunity but I try to practice my bananas against serves in doubles.

It was a great session especially playing with their top player.

I want to do the banana more often, but I always have a fear that as I get the bat in position prior to swinging out the wrist, I always fear that the bat will somehow bang the table. That stops me from doing it more often. And if I take more care not to bang the table, it slows me down, then the ball drops further and I now fear that the ball is too low for me to flip it over the net. I suppose I just need to do it more often and get over the fear, and I don't really know why it bangs the table but I have done it before, where the bat just got stuck by the back edge of the table.

Will try it more in the session next week in my usual club. I guess even in doubles, I can always practice various serve returns that I can use in singles.
 
says Spin and more spin.
says Spin and more spin.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Moderator
Dec 2010
16,640
18,535
56,964
Read 11 reviews
I will go even further- good coach in person better than good internet pundit stating his opinion.
A good coach, who coaches juniors really well, and is faced with a hopeless case adult learner, may just give up and do things that make the adult learner feel happy. :) hahahahaha.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2016
5,313
6,819
27,607
A good coach, who coaches juniors really well, and is faced with a hopeless case adult learner, may just give up and do things that make the adult learner feel happy. :) hahahahaha.
that's me
 
says Making a beautiful shot is most important; winning is...
says Making a beautiful shot is most important; winning is...
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Mar 2021
4,848
5,737
12,094
A good coach, who coaches juniors really well, and is faced with a hopeless case adult learner, may just give up and do things that make the adult learner feel happy. :) hahahahaha.
Happiness, happiness. What is happiness?

1. Winning a national level tournament is happiness.
2, Winning a match is happiness
3. Winning a set is happiness
4. Hitting a beautiful winning point is happiness
5. Being able to play with your favourite set-up is happiness
6. Being healthy enough to play TT is happiness
7. Having the free time to play TT is happiness
8. Having the means to travel to TT club to play is happiness
9. Having a club with good environment and friends to play is happiness
10. Having a forum with like-minded people all the world to talk about TT is happiness.

Come to think of I have much to be happy about. Grateful I am.
 
says Making a beautiful shot is most important; winning is...
says Making a beautiful shot is most important; winning is...
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Mar 2021
4,848
5,737
12,094
Another Happy day!
Coach just called and he wants to register my name for a very famous amateur TT event happening in the heart of my capital city. This event is only for amateur ( Open category with no age limit ), that means no player who is currently playing for the State / Province nor National Level are allowed to play. This event is slated for July 2023. More motivation to train....
 
  • Like
Reactions: blahness
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Oct 2010
2,860
2,798
10,530
I want to do the banana more often, but I always have a fear that as I get the bat in position prior to swinging out the wrist, I always fear that the bat will somehow bang the table. That stops me from doing it more often. And if I take more care not to bang the table, it slows me down, then the ball drops further and I now fear that the ball is too low for me to flip it over the net. I suppose I just need to do it more often and get over the fear, and I don't really know why it bangs the table but I have done it before, where the bat just got stuck by the back edge of the table.

Will try it more in the session next week in my usual club. I guess even in doubles, I can always practice various serve returns that I can use in singles.
Chiquita is one of my main weapons personally and I also had this issue before. The key is to do no arm backswing as you approach the ball and get into position. Rather, you move into the table such a way so that your shoulders faces the left and then twist your upper body to get into the backswing position, with minimal arm movement.

For me the biggest key is not to move your arm too early. It's all about using footwork to reach the ideal position with your body first before the arm does anything. This way there's no chance of the bat hitting the table because you step in with the bat above the table in the neutral ready position. If you arm backswing early before you step in, it's easy for the bat to hit the table especially if you backswing low like a traditional BH loop structure.
Furthermore, if you don't do arm backswing early you can even transition to a fuller swing loop if you notice that the ball is going to drift long. But if you arm backswing early you're "locked" into the stroke and can't adjust with further visual information of the ball trajectory.

The other thing I learnt is to step on the right foot exactly when you contact the ball - timing this well can allow you to produce a lot of extra power from the legs. This actually applies to almost all short receives.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
🏆 Top 1% Commenter
Well-Known Member
Jan 2016
5,313
6,819
27,607
a coach found out the main mistake that i did while doing chiquita: sometimes my elbow goes down during the stroke. if it happens the swing will not go forward but upwards or even downwards sometimes, ending with the ball too long or in the net.

with that detail being corrected, my accuracy has increased by lots on this shot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: blahness
Top