ITTF World Team Table Tennis Championships Finals Busan 2024

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His point is that it is all money and not so much fairness. In reality, it is always a mix of both, but the fairness definitely needs to be addressed.
I think as long as one organization is throwing more money into the sport than perhaps the rest combined, money is gonna be the dominating issue.

What he's complaining about is really pretty minor in the grand scheme of things, and he can't seem to see that. It's like complaining about how unfair it is that the officials give one student access to the test site and the testing pen and papers more than others, while ignoring that some students have access to private tutors and others have no reliable access to any schooling at all. And he justifies this hypocrisy by drawing an arbitrary line around "when the officials are involved." It smacks of a privileged kid crying about another privileged kid being more privileged, all the while ignoring the struggles of the poor masses.
 
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JPN: Honne and tatemae...

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/tokyo-2020-2020-7-24-8-9.23698/post-348502
Arena size is non-standard at Tokyo 2020+1?

6mx11m Tokyo 2020+1
vs 7x14 non-final
vs 8x16 final

JOC: How can we beat China in doubles?
JNT: Make the arena smaller.

https://weibo.com/1656831930/KpuPhnIqz?type=comment
https://tv.cctv.com/2021/07/19/VIDEGvhIcbBj7YdT4eAm0V9h210719.shtml
https://tv.cctv.com/2021/07/20/VIDECyOR88LtWAnX3ue8yi2Q210720.shtml

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/tokyo-2020-2020-7-24-8-9.23698/post-348587
Issue of arena size finally picked up by the Japanese journalist.

中国卓球協会会長、今度はコートの広さに不満 「普段より小さい」
https://www.afpbb.com/articles/-/3357681?cx_part=search

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/tokyo-2020-2020-7-24-8-9.23698/post-348678
https://2020.sina.com.cn/2021-07-23/doc-ikqciyzk7163886.shtml
https://w.yangshipin.cn/video?type=0&vid=t000023f1q4&channel=ysyy_aoyun
Germany complains about the arena size as well. ITTF has decided to intervene but don't expect much, given they can only move the umpire chairs out of the way, increasing the width by 50cm. (height of table tennis table 76cm 😅)

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/timo-boll-how-i-glue.23943/post-322192
Let's see what the People of Honesty had to say about the Happy Crooks. :rolleyes: Select comments from an entry on Guchi's blog.

http://yamaguchi.diary.to/archives/51946364.html
2. 馬龍 2017年07月18日 12:34
日本のトップ選手の使用ラバーは市販のものとは別物です。契約選手用はみんなファクトリーチューンテナジー使ってますよ。

それに水谷も言ってることがおかしいんですよね。サーブについては「審判にレットを取られないギリギリのところまで隠してる。ルール違反なのでリスクもあるが、グレーなところで勝負するのはトップ選手として当然だ」みたいな発言をしておきながら、補助剤に関しては「ラケットコントロールでバレなきゃいいなんてグレーな事をするなんてけしからん。みんな補助剤使うのやめるべきだ」と。サーブのルールを守ってない人間が補助剤のルールについてどうのこうの言ったところでなんの説得力もないと思うのは自分だけでしょうか!?
2. Ma Long July 18, 2017 12:34
The rubber used by top Japanese players is different from the one on the market. All contract players use factory-tuned Tenergy.

And what Mizutani said is strange. Regarding the serve, he stated that "I hide the ball as much as possible, without getting caught by the umpire. There is a risk because it violates the rules, but it is natural to compete as a top player in the gray area." Yet on booster, he said, "It's not good to do gray things without getting caught by racket control. Everyone should stop using supplements." Is it just me who thinks that people who don't follow the service rules have no right to speak about the rules of supplements!?

6. とみー 2017年07月18日 14:13
私も日本選手でラバーを支給されている友人がいるのですが、日本の契約選手も基本全員工場の段階で補助剤を大量に塗ってもらってるので今は公平なようですよ。
契約選手以外のトップ選手は皆自分で塗っているようですが
6. Tomy July 18, 2017 14:13
I also have a friend who is a Japanese player and is provided with rubbers, but basically all Japanese contract players have a large amount of supplements applied at the factory level, so it seems fair now.
It seems all the top players other than the contract players apply it themselves

8. 名無し 2017年07月18日 14:45
代表選手達もSP仕様のチューンアップラバーを使用しているのでなんとも言えませんね。 そもそもそれが抗議を通せなかった大きな理由です。だから、水谷さんは前加工も後加工も無くして欲しいと連盟や協会に訴えかけたのです。結果テナジーが売れなくなれば困る協会が前加工に妥協し、中国の影響力が強い連盟はうやむやに逃げ回るしかなくなりました。水谷さんの抗議後代表選手らは一時期SP仕様のラバーを禁止にしていました。リオオリンピックあたりからラバーの仕様を変えて試合をしています。全日本選手権の際代表選手らが調子を落としよく負けるのはラバーの仕様が国際大会で使用をしているものと違うためだと聞きます。SP仕様のラバーというのは塗っているラバーと見分けがつづらくなるから販売を容認しないのです。結局はお上の都合で選手が振り回されている状態だという事ですよ。
8. Anonymous July 18, 2017 14:45
I can't say anything because the representative players also use SP tune-up rubbers. First of all, that's the main reason why the protest didn't get through. That's why Mizutani-san appealed to the federation and associations for the elimination of pre-processing and post-processing. As a result, the association, which would be troubled if Tenergy doesn't sell, compromised the pre-processing, and the powerful Chinese federation had no choice but to play dumb. After Mizutani-san's protest, the representatives were temporarily banned from SP version rubbers. The rubber specifications were changed around the Rio Olympic Games. I hear that the representative players performed poorly at the All-Japan Championships because the rubber specifications were different from those used in international competitions. Sales of SP rubber are banned because it is difficult to distinguish from boosted rubber. As a result, players get shafted due to upper management reasons.

14. う 2017年07月18日 19:42
SPと刻印されてる前加工のテナジーを日本人が使うのは良くて
前加工されたキョウヒョウを外国人が使うのはダメって言う日本卓球界の風潮おかしくないでしょうか?
これは外国人差別ですよ。
14. U July 18, 2017 19:42
It's fine for Japanese people to use the pre-processed Tenergy engraved with SP
Isn't it a strange trend of the Japanese table tennis world that foreigners shouldn't use pre-processed Hurricane?
This is foreign discrimination.

16. 名無し 2017年07月18日 21:12
水谷さんはすでにはっきりと解禁であれば受け入れられると発言をしています。日本の協会が塗らせないだけです。もともと補助剤を前倒しをしてまで禁止にしたのが日本の協会です。特にニッタクのスピードアクセルは中国のナショナルチームが使用しており、ファインジップ、とセットで継続使用するはずでした。それを話し合いもせず強引に前倒ししたわけですから中国が憤慨するのもうなずけます。当時禁止を発表した際にニッタクさんが「もう少し配慮しても良いのでは?」と発言したのは中国選手に対して向けたものだと言いますよ。何かもっとうまくやる方法があったような気がしてなりません。残念です。
16. Nameless July 18, 2017 21:12
Mizutani-san has already stated that he will accept it if the ban is clearly lifted. Only the Japanese association can not let you boost. Originally, the Japanese association banned the use of supplements even earlier. In particular, the Nittaku Speed Axel was used by the Chinese national team, and it was supposed to be used continuously with the Finezip. It was no wonder that China was upset because it was pushed forward without discussion. When the ban was announced back at that time, Nittaku-san said, "Is it possible to reconsider it?" I don't feel like there was a better way to do it. That's a shame.

18. 馬龍 2017年07月18日 22:34
補助剤の目的は「スポンジとシートにテンションをかける」事。補助剤の有る無しでは、高弾性とテンション内蔵ラバー位の性能の違いがある。
あとこれも言い尽くされた話だけど、ITTFが後加工を禁止しない(できない)のは、「過去に補助剤を使用禁止にした事で、メーカー及び小売店に補助剤(グルー)の在庫が大量に発生し、大きな損害を出した」から。
「補助剤禁止ね。在庫!?んなもん知らんわ」って言っておきながら、「やっぱり後加工オッケー!また売っていいよ!!」なんて言ったら過去に不利益を被った人たちはそりゃ怒るわな。連盟の信用問題に関わるから、今更(一般市場に)解禁されることはない。その着地点が「メーカー加工はOK」
ただ他の人も言ってるように、それだとFCラバーを供給されてる人に対して、一般市民はディスアドバンテージを常に負いながらその背中を追いかけなきゃいけない。中々厳しいね
18. Ma Long July 18, 2017 22:34
The purpose of supplements is to "add tension to the sponge and topsheet." Without supplements, there is a difference in performance between the high elasticity rubbers and those with built-in tension.
This is also a story that has been flogged to death, but the ITTF does not(cannot) prohibit post-processing "due to the prohibition of supplements in the past, manufacturers and retailers had a large inventory of supplments(glue), which caused a lot of damage."
While saying "Ban the supplements. What about the stock!? I don't know about it", yet at the same time "After all, post-processing is fine! You can sell it again!", it's no wonder those who suffered a loss are angry. As it is related to the federation's credit issues, the ban will not be lifted(on the general market). And so the landing point becomes "Factory processing is OK."
However, as others have said, in that case, the general public must pursue the back of those who are supplied with FC rubbers, while always being at a disadvantage. That's tough

21. タカ 2017年07月18日 23:20
日本国内でさえ、SP版テナジーを使えない選手がいる時点で問題がある。

しかも、日本国内のチームには暗黙の了解で差別されるものもいる。いわゆる、カースト制度のようなもの。

それなら、一般の選手がグルーを塗っても許されると私は考える。一般選手には道具のドーピングが許されない、けど上位勢の選手には許されるなんて理不尽にも程がある。
21. Taka 23/07/2017 23:20
Even in Japan, there is a problem when some players cannot use SP version of Tenergy.

Moreover, some teams in Japan are discriminated against by implicit consent. The so-called caste system.

Then, I think that it is permissible for ordinary players to apply glue. It is unreasonable that general players are not allowed to do racket-doping, yet high-ranked players are allowed to do so.

23. てぃおん 2017年07月19日 07:43
已打底は、ファクトリーチューンの代表ですよね。

WRMは、それをずっと推進してきたわけですもんね。
23. Tion 07/19/2017 07:43
Pre-tuned means factory-tuned.

WRM has been promoting it all the time.

26. てけてけ 2017年07月19日 10:03
前加工はよくて後加工はダメって言ってるように聞こえる。
それって前加工してもらえない人達からすると公平じゃないよね?
実際SPテナジーの性能は普及テナジーと違うしそんな中で後加工してる選手だけ責めるのはなんか違う。それならいっそ解禁してほしい
26. Teke-teke, July 19, 2017 10:03
It sounds like pre-processing is good and post-processing is bad.
It's not fair to those who don't get pre-processed, right?
Actually, the performance of SP Tenergy is different from that of commercial Tenergy, and so it's different to blame only the players who are post-processing. In that case, why not just lift the ban

29. とも 2017年07月19日 14:39
工場内加工テナジーは知り合いが契約選手なので知ってますが間違いなく国内でも使用してますよ硬度や量は選手によって違いますが。
29. Tomo July 19, 2017 14:39
I know about the factory-processed Tenergy because my acquaintance is a contract player, but it's definitely used in Japan, though the hardness and amount differ depending on the player.
 
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Anyone noticed that Jang Woojin almost fainted after his match? He walked like a drunk men for a split second. :ROFLMAO:

View attachment 28528
Yeah, I think he was yelling too hard for too long, basically doing the valsalva maneuver too much, causing him to almost have a vasovagal syncope.
One thing I noticed in Sun Yingsha's games (that I never really noticed before), is the deception in the amount of spin generated in her topspin strokes on the BH.

So all of her BHs look like flat ish BHs because of how she just goes forward through the ball but sometimes you see from the reaction from her opponent's racket that it was kicking like crazy which is not what you would expect from her stroke. And it also appears to be intentional to throw her opponents off their rhythm.

So I suspect she actually applies the spin "secretly" via differences in the finger actions for each ball even during fast paced rallies.

I'm gonna take a book from this - it looks to be really devastating. I already do something similar for opening loops but never for topspin rallying, this is definitely quite interesting.
Even visually she seems to have good variations with his BH shots. While other players seem to have a very consistent cadence, see WYD vs Miu's match for example, SYS seems to change the cadence up quite often. From slow and spinny to fast thundering shots, she really does have a really wide range that she seems to be able to apply at will.
 
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Picking players because of this or that can ruin team cohesion. It would be interesting to know for example how Ito ended up playing against Romania instead of Harimoto.
Watanabe revealed that he believed in Ito. Ito also acknowledged Szocs.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...pionships-finals-busan-2024.32987/post-444638
The match was scheduled to start at 8 p.m. at the same time as Japan's men's match, but the women's quarterfinal match between France and Germany was hotly contested before that, and the start was delayed considerably. It was not Harimoto Miwa who was appointed as 1st singles, but Ito Mima. "Because of the delay, I didn't move as much as I thought I would in the first game," said Ito. Even though she dropped the first game, but from the second game onward, she used a combination of quick attacks and a variety of techniques, and showed a bold flanking attack in the final game.

"Szocs has been very strong lately and I thought she would be even stronger when she faced me, so I was like, 'I'm not going to lose,' and now she's higher in the world ranking, so I was ready to take a plunge. I'm glad I got a flanking smash at the end."

...


◎Coach Watanabe Takehiro's post-match comments
"Why did you use Ito instead of Harimoto? Ito was in good form and I wanted her to play against Romania. Even though it was closely contested, I thought she would win.
I was surprised that Dragoman, the 2nd singles, was in good form, but Hayata was good from the second game on after dropping the first game. Hirano, the 3rd singles, is in better shape and swinging faster. Hong Kong, who we will face tomorrow, is in good form when we look at their match against Taipei, but we will try to win the match. To be honest, I was happier when qualifying for the Olympics than when winning a medal (laughs), but I want to win tomorrow and challenge China."
 
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Hirano displayed unwavering confidence and exceptional mental fortitude.
Hirano looked incredibly focused and rock-solid all tournament. The way she carries herself on the table is quite intimidating, despite her being so tiny that the ball looks like a baseball in her small hand when she serves. For a while she experimented with different ways of carrying herself (for a time she was forcing herself to constantly smile during a match, which was odd). I think she found the sweet spot recently as the results demonstrate.

Using Miwa in the finals was definitely not optimal in the short term, but I guess it might pay dividends later on. Having this big event team experience is pretty crucial for her development, and if she continues to improve then the CNT will have to worry not just about Hayata as they have been recently. Having to prepare for a rising Miwa, a solid Hayata, and also a resurging Miu compounds the difficulty in threat preparation significantly.
 
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I think you're trying to make the CNT some evil entity, but they're really just like any other sports organization, trying to promote the sport while getting to and staying on top of it. They just happen to have more money and political support than any other TT organization in the world.
Japan: China is evil, because Daddy says so.

https://youtu.be/-YQogdzUX-M?list=PLmv2z1opFmpX432-End0LFOopF1S_Ku07&t=84
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1nx41157QV

This general sentiment of the West reminds me of this article by Kevin Rudd in 2015. It is a good read for those who have a problem with China's behavior. As Rudd noted, it's China who has a problem with the imperial behavior of the West in the past 200 years.

Kevin Rudd - China's Long Memory of European Imperialism
https://www.salzburgglobal.org/news...dd-chinas-long-memory-of-european-imperialism
European imperial behavior in the 19th century affects China’s national historiography to this day. In WWI, several hundred thousand Chinese workers undertook all sorts of dangerous work for the allies. The Chinese sent a delegation to Versailles but they were never admitted to the full negotiating table. Europe and the West's democratic politics failed to deliver China's basic national interests. Japan thought it was simply replacing European colonialism with a better form of Asian colonialism. In 1919, the Europeans also managed to destroy the legitimacy of the early Chinese Republic.

...

European imperialism in the Asian hemisphere

...

Simply put, it created a profound sense of grievance with the collective imperial West. In turn, that has created in the Chinese mind a sense of righteous cause about its own rise today as it pertains to its re-emergence as a – and perhaps prospectively the – global great power.

The damaging behavior at Versailles

...

It is little known on the European continent that, as part of WWI, the Chinese actually dispatched several hundred thousand workers, manual workers, to dig trenches and undertake all sorts of dangerous work on behalf of the allied cause. Many were killed in action. Many more through disease.

When the war concluded, the Chinese sent a delegation to Versailles. However, they were kept in the waiting room and never admitted to the full negotiating table. Worse, deliberations at Versailles decided that former German colonies in China would not be returned to China, but they would be handed instead to Japan.

That single event delegitimized the early Chinese republic at home, resulting in large-scale student protest movements in Peking and two years later, the formation of the Chinese Communist Party.

Democratic politics, at home and abroad, had not only failed to deliver China’s most basic national interests. Versailles also legitimized, in the eyes of Tokyo, international support for Japan’s ambitions over time to become the future imperial masters of Asia.

When we later saw the full-scale Japanese invasion of China in the 1930s and the rest of Asia in 1941, this reflected a mindset on Japan’s part that it was simply replacing European colonialism with a better form of Asian colonialism.

What Japan learned from the Europeans

...

Given this sorry history of Western imperialism in China, the question for Europe and the wider West as a whole is that China today looks at the post-1945 global order. The basic question from Beijing is this: Why is it that a Western-made order is somehow inherently legitimate?

The Chinese realize that there are distinct advantages to the current order, such as open economies. But they also know full well that they were not around the negotiating table in 1945 when this order was drafted. Or at least the People’s Republic was not.

A responsible global stakeholder?

So when the U.S. government and leading U.S. public intellectuals often refer to the need of China’s accepting its future role as a responsible global stakeholder, the Chinese often find it difficult to accept.

In Chinese minds, when they embraced that concept a century ago through their participation in the first World War, they were not only not rewarded for it. They were punished for it.

...

It is more useful to understand China’s perspective than, high-handedly, as a demander, to simply expect China to buy into the Western canon of values and the order based on it. The fact that we somehow believe it is self-evident and that it is better than anything else on offer cannot suffice.
 
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Miu played the #3 player on the other team throughout the tournament against the stronger teams. She struggled with the Iranian antispin lady. Let's not use her success now not to put her performance in perspective.
Watanabe also gave his reasoning on that. Hayata is the trump card, Hirano is the fail-safe in case Harimoto stumbles. It's safe to assume he is letting Harimoto get as much experience as possible ahead of Paris 2024.

As for Hirano struggling, keep in mind she recovered whereas SYS and WYD failed. That's a huge difference. And how many times has Hirano done it now against all odds? She dropped 0 games at XTWC 2023 and remember what you told me?

As of now, Hirano is the only JNT player to have defeated CM and WYD in straight games at ATTC 2017 (second highest continental stage) and WTTC 2024 (second highest international stage), respectively.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...pionships-finals-busan-2024.32987/post-445205
<平野を3番で起用し続けるのは、何か意図があるのか?>
やはり早田をエースで起用していて、万が一張本がこけた時にも平野が3番で取ってくれて早田に回るので、負けないオーダーとして今日の分は組みました。

Debate over fielding Hirano instead of Hayata at XTWC 2023
https://web.archive.org/web/2024012...cup-2023-chengdu-12-410_topic93561_page3.html (12/13/2023 at 8:08am)
https://web.archive.org/web/2024012...cup-2023-chengdu-12-410_topic93561_page4.html (12/13/2023 at 1:37pm)

Tieba comments on fielding Hirano instead of Hayata at XTWC 2023
 
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Best case scenario for FRA. Being the ABC team is the first and foremost prerequisite.

MT F
FRA 0-3 CHN
F. Lebrun 0-3 WCQ (-4, -8, -3)
A. Lebrun 2-3 FZD
G1 48, 109, 119
G2 411
G3 62, 64, 84, 85, 105, 108 TO for Lebrun, 118
G4 20 TO for FZD, 22, 32, 34, 44 endline edge for Lebrun, 54 FZD yellow carded for stalling, 55, 85, 88, 98, 99, 109, 1012
G5 04, 24, 29, 59, 510, 610 slight net for Lebrun, 710, 711
Gauzy 1-3 ML
G1 21, 51, 52, 82, 83, 93, 96, 106 corner edge for Gauzy, 107, 117
G2 05, 25, 211
G3 10, 12, 22, 26, 36, 37 Gauzy served off the table, 47, 411
G4 02 TO for Gauzy, 03, 23, 25, 35, 37, 57, 58, 68 TO for ML, 611
F. Lebrun vs FZD
A. Lebrun vs WCQ
 
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Time for Alexis to step up.
 
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And Alexis takes one after being 4-8 down! He plays a high risk style which IMO you probably need to beat the CNT. It may be inconsistent but consistency doesn't beat FZD.
 
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