ITTF World Team Table Tennis Championships Finals Busan 2024

[dingyibvs]

You still missing the plot

did Taiwan get unfavourable advantage from ITTF DHS DF?
the 20min spot they got on T1 and T2?

stop being a dick now and read the article
even when all the money is pooled into together, it doesn't remove the triangle that China has, does it?

No, but they got a favorable advantage for being rich. Taiwanese players have their rich daddy in the Taiwanese government, and that's not fair to for example the kids in South Africa.

Tell me, how is it fair that kids in South Africa have only a fraction of the resources Taiwanese kids have to train for TT? Do you think it matters more that you have access to the same training hall, tables, and balls used in a tournament as others, or does it matter more that you have access to any training, tables, and balls at all?

In my experience, it's usually those who grew up as privileged kids and finally became exposed to the real world as an adult who cry about unfairness. Those of us who grew up underprivileged understand that this is just the way the world is.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think you give Jang too much credit and FZD nor enough.

It will always be tough to go over ones limited, twice in 2-3 hours.
Need a lot more recovery time for that.
So to beat China and expect 2 from a player is a hard ask.

 

[NextLevel]

When I raise that how the world is upping money to try catch China….
He brings out Vietnam or Mozambique
He is dodging the point pretty much intentionally, like hey its not China’s fault

His point is that it is all money and not so much fairness. In reality, it is always a mix of both, but the fairness definitely needs to be addressed.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

His point is that it is all money and not so much fairness. In reality, it is always a mix of both, but the fairness definitely needs to be addressed

Yep
How you prepare at home is one thing.
The additional advantage you get at the tournament from officials is another.

Plenty of example give on how other tier1 nation with the money don’t get the same perks from officials.

 

[NextLevel]

It will always be tough to go over ones limited, twice in 2-3 hours.
Need a lot more recovery time for that.
So to beat China and expect 2 from a player is a hard ask.

Yes but he did play match 1 and 4. Fan played match 2 and 4. Stress is real, we can and should excuse athletes for challenges dealing with the pressure but it is part of the team sport. Players are human beings, Jang has always had limitations with his style that expose him against certain players. If he plays Wang again, Wang will focus more on transition and rely less on ball quality. It takes tough lessons to learn humility.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

No, but they got a favorable advantage for being rich. Taiwanese players have their rich daddy in the Taiwanese government, and that's not fair to for example the kids in South Africa.

Tell me, how is it fair that kids in South Africa have only a fraction of the resources Taiwanese kids have to train for TT? Do you think it matters more that you have access to the same training hall, tables, and balls used in a tournament as others, or does it matter more that you have access to any training, tables, and balls at all?

In my experience, it's usually those who grew up as privileged kids and finally became exposed to the real world as an adult who cry about unfairness. Those of us who grew up underprivileged understand that this is just the way the world is.

Dodging the issue again with another country

 

[dingyibvs]

Dodging the issue again with another country

It's rough when hypocrisy gets called out, isn't it?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It's rough when hypocrisy gets called out, isn't it?

Dodging again?
What do you think of Qiu Dang’s remark
Dodging that too?

 

[dingyibvs]

Dodging again?
What do you think of Qiu Dang’s remark
Dodging that too?

Why are you dodging my question about Taiwan vs South Africa? Do you even realize how privileged Taiwanese kids are when it comes to TT compared to almost every other country? You said it yourself that they have a better elementary education program than even China. How is that fair to Chinese kids?

So a rich kid who gets private tutoring at home is OK, but getting a mock exam at a prep course is not? Taiwan getting extra resources to train at home is OK, but CNT getting a private training hall at the tournament city is not?

Money leads to privileges, you're complaining about one set of privileges but ignoring another set. That's why you're being hypocritical.

 

[dingyibvs]

It is stupid if coaching systems don't allow for playing favorites and that is a problem in this system where the coach is also the personal coach of some of the players. It's an issue inherent in most national teams selection so you have to be careful with the calls you make, especially if they will not be accepted by your top players. It ultimately takes losing or coming close to losing for some changes to be made. If WMY had gotten to the semis of the world championship instead of CXT, a lot of these issues would have magically disappeared.

Picking players because of this or that can ruin team cohesion. It would be interesting to know for example how Ito ended up playing against Romania instead of Harimoto.

I feel like they need to consider players' abilities to play against players of other countries. Losing 0-3 to Akula should weigh way more than losing 0-4 to CXT IMO.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Why are you dodging my question about Taiwan vs South Africa? Do you even realize how privileged Taiwanese kids are when it comes to TT compared to almost every other country? You said it yourself that they have a better elementary education program than even China. How is that fair to Chinese kids?

So a rich kid who gets private tutoring at home is OK, but getting a mock exam at a prep course is not? Taiwan getting extra resources to train at home is OK, but CNT getting a private training hall at the tournament city is not?

Money leads to privileges, you're complaining about one set of privileges but ignoring another set. That's why you're being hypocritical.

you can't deny what I said hey, and dodging by throwing questions on the whole map.
its the world vs China,
There is not a second country that have such perks from officials.

China can have money to buy all things,
but the moment officials gets involved, that is a different context all together. and this part you are dodging

 

[Tempest/Comet]

I agree think it's a bit too early for Miwa - it's like feeding sheep to wolves. Miu Hirano definitely had a better chance against both Sun Yingsha and Chen Meng imo. Even if Wang Manyu was playing it would be the same conclusion. I think they wanted to give CNT a surprise to mess up their expectations and preparation which was a nice try regardless. You can't be too honest in high stake matches like this, and being 1-2 down for CNT is placing huge psychological pressure on them to perform under pressure.

You’re quite right in this regard I think. Also it may well be how the media have hyped-up Miwa as the ‘wonder girl’, and the ‘magic bullet’ that Miyazaki always seems to be looking for. There were pressure to use her right now.
Whilst it’s true she has huge potential, way above other 15 yrs old, she hasn’t quite developed the steadfastness under fire, or the resilience to bounce back up against the ropes in a hard fight…yet.These will come in time and experience, specially painful ones like the double dunks in the Final. Whether she can adapt (only 5 months remaining) remains to be seen. I wish her well, but think that she’ll be far better off if harvested for 2028.

 

[dingyibvs]

you can't deny what I said hey, and dodging by the whole map.
its the world vs China,
There is not a second country that have such perks from officials.

China can have money to buy all things,
but the moment officials gets involved, that is a different context all together. and this part you are dodging

I'm not dodging this at all. I'm stating very clearly that it's not a different context. I wish for the world to take on China and beat them at their own game, make it a level playing field for all if possible. These games have been so enthralling in no small part because the Chinese were so close to losing, even despite all their fair or unfair advantages. I want to see more of that, and I think that goes for most here.

 

[NextLevel]

You’re quite right in this regard I think. Also it may well be how the media have hyped-up Miwa as the ‘wonder girl’, and the ‘magic bullet’ that Miyazaki always seems to be looking for. There were pressure to use her right now.
Whilst it’s true she has huge potential, way above other 15 yrs old, she hasn’t quite developed the steadfastness under fire, or the resilience to bounce back up against the ropes in a hard fight…yet.These will come in time and experience, specially painful ones like the double dunks in the Final. Whether she can adapt (only 5 months remaining) remains to be seen. I wish her well, but think that she’ll be far better off if harvested for 2028.

I think she is fine. The pressure for 2024 is not the same as the pressure for 2020/2021 Tokyo. I think that pressure ruined Harimoto as they rushed him rather than developed him doe the long term. Right now, I don't think Miwa has anything close to the same pressure, she is more like Ito in 2016.

 

[NextLevel]

I feel like they need to consider players' abilities to play against players of other countries. Losing 0-3 to Akula should weigh way more than losing 0-4 to CXT IMO.

That is one way of looking at it. The alternative is that WMY and WYD have both had years to earn their rankings on the tour and the rankings result in certain consequences. Wang Yidi on the finals team and Wang Manyu not on the finals team was one of those consequences. Technically both should have been favorites against Hirano in the 3rd match. Wang Yidi beat lots of players who didn't use pips convincingly. Miu Hirano has beaten Sun Yingsha so the loss is not going to be out of the ordinary and there is no guarantee that Wang Manyu was beyond loss, it is just easier to claim this given what happened. No one would bet in a 1000 years either that Ayhika would have beaten SYS before watching the match.

 

[driversbeat]

That is one way of looking at it. The alternative is that WMY and WYD have both had years to earn their rankings on the tour and the rankings result in certain consequences. Wang Yidi on the finals team and Wang Manyu not on the finals team was one of those consequences. Technically both should have been favorites against Hirano in the 3rd match. Wang Yidi beat lots of players who didn't use pips convincingly. Miu Hirano has beaten Sun Yingsha so the loss is not going to be out of the ordinary and there is no guarantee that Wang Manyu was beyond loss, it is just easier to claim this given what happened. No one would bet in a 1000 years either that Ayhika would have beaten SYS before watching the match.

Wang manyu is the 2021 WTTC women's singles champion. Wang Yidi has never come close.

 

[Kopp]

I agree think it's a bit too early for Miwa - it's like feeding sheep to wolves. Miu Hirano definitely had a better chance against both Sun Yingsha and Chen Meng imo. Even if Wang Manyu was playing it would be the same conclusion. I think they wanted to give CNT a surprise to mess up their expectations and preparation which was a nice try regardless. You can't be too honest in high stake matches like this, and being 1-2 down for CNT is placing huge psychological pressure on them to perform under pressure.

I agree entirely. It seemed Cheng Meng perceived Miwa to lack the mental fortitude to secure the trophy.

This stands in stark contrast to Miu Hirano's performance throughout the tournament. Hirano displayed unwavering confidence and exceptional mental fortitude. Had she faced Cheng Meng, her 2017 Asian Championship victory over Cheng might still haunt her opponent, giving Hirano a significant psychological edge.

 

[NextLevel]

Wang manyu is the 2021 WTTC women's singles champion. Wang Yidi has never come close.

Wang Yidi has gotten a WTTC bronze in both 2021 ( and lost to Hayata in 2023 in a close match - my brain is a mess) which to me is pretty close. Ma Long was considered th besr player in the world between 2009 and 2013 !and three bronzes were literally all he had at the WTTC. Xu Xin never did better than bronze either. We have different definitions of "close".

Based on the team criteria, current ranking is what matters not results from almost 3 years ago. Under old Chinese criteria, WMY and SYS as world championship in thr past cycle would be playing singles. But this changed during the last cycle when neither LSW nor DN made it.

My point is not to disagree seriously that WMY would have been a better choice. My point is that hindsight is always 20‐20 but before the match it was 50-50.

 

[NextLevel]

I agree entirely. It seemed Cheng Meng perceived Miwa to lack the mental fortitude to secure the trophy.

This stands in stark contrast to Miu Hirano's performance throughout the tournament. Hirano displayed unwavering confidence and exceptional mental fortitude. Had she faced Cheng Meng, her 2017 Asian Championship victory over Cheng might still haunt her opponent, giving Hirano a significant psychological edge.

Miu played the #3 player on the other team throughout the tournament against the stronger teams. She struggled with the Iranian antispin lady. Let's not use her success now not to put her performance in perspective.

 

[blahness]

One thing I noticed in Sun Yingsha's games (that I never really noticed before), is the deception in the amount of spin generated in her topspin strokes on the BH.

So all of her BHs look like flat ish BHs because of how she just goes forward through the ball but sometimes you see from the reaction from her opponent's racket that it was kicking like crazy which is not what you would expect from her stroke. And it also appears to be intentional to throw her opponents off their rhythm.

So I suspect she actually applies the spin "secretly" via differences in the finger actions for each ball even during fast paced rallies.

I'm gonna take a book from this - it looks to be really devastating. I already do something similar for opening loops but never for topspin rallying, this is definitely quite interesting.