Why do people say LP's should be banned?

[Metaxa]

Please tell 😂

I'm sure you know it too!

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

For LP users out there, what would be a cheap way for me to create a racket to train against?

I have a Yinhe U2 that's relatively stiff. Would that work as a base? What is some good value LP rubber that I should consider?

Any cheap LP will do. RITC 755, Palio CK531A, Yinhe Neptune/955, Globe 979, are all good. If you want to get a bit more specialized towards a blocking style, Giant Dragon Talon, Sword Scylla, Spinlord Dornenglanz are also relatively cheap but designed more with reversal/passive blocking in mind.

 

[igorponger]

MUTUALISM (=COOPERATION) IN TABLE TENNIS. WHAT'S THIS?

It stands for the reason, you can't do well playing with LP unless you get a training session once a day at least, same is when you encountered LP player. Yes, most people feel strongly against LP cheaters and ANTIs.
However, there are some people who purposely looking for a LP player as a playmate. Both will get benefit a lot. The learned ones would call it BIOLOGICAL MUTUALISM.

Be happy.

Mutualism (biology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AchyGeorge]

For LP users out there, what would be a cheap way for me to create a racket to train against?

I have a Yinhe U2 that's relatively stiff. Would that work as a base? What is some good value LP rubber that I should considering

Either Dawei 388d or Saviga Monster 77 are both cheap. Ox (no sponge) will give the funkiest effects, a thin sponged sheet will allow you to generate a little more of your own spin and may be easier to control but also easier to play against (in my experience)

 

[Metaxa]

To return to the player Luka Mladenovic (nr. 206 in de world) from above from the video against Olah. The material player reached the semi-finals on Beirut's feeder. Before that, he achieved surprising results in ¼, ⅛, 1/16 and 1/32 finals. Including the three-time champion of Belgium and No 86 in the world.
In the next feeder tournament, he beat Joao Geraldo 3/0 No 54 in the world!
He will surely have achieved these results through his technical "ability"....😜

 

[John_]

To return to the player Luka Mladenovic (nr. 206 in de world) from above from the video against Olah. The material player reached the semi-finals on Beirut's feeder. Before that, he achieved surprising results in ¼, ⅛, 1/16 and 1/32 finals. Including the three-time champion of Belgium and No 86 in the world.
In the next feeder tournament, he beat Joao Geraldo 3/0 No 54 in the world!
He will surely have achieved these results through his technical "ability"....😜

Without training nothing can be achieved, yes he has that equipment but he's mastered it. It's not like we can pick it up and beat Kreanga.

 

[longrange]

To return to the player Luka Mladenovic (nr. 206 in de world) from above from the video against Olah. The material player reached the semi-finals on Beirut's feeder. Before that, he achieved surprising results in ¼, ⅛, 1/16 and 1/32 finals. Including the three-time champion of Belgium and No 86 in the world.
In the next feeder tournament, he beat Joao Geraldo 3/0 No 54 in the world!
He will surely have achieved these results through his technical "ability"....😜

…and gets beaten by #148, which proves exactly what? Luka won against Gauzy and Uda in Bundesliga.

 

[blahness]

To return to the player Luka Mladenovic (nr. 206 in de world) from above from the video against Olah. The material player reached the semi-finals on Beirut's feeder. Before that, he achieved surprising results in ¼, ⅛, 1/16 and 1/32 finals. Including the three-time champion of Belgium and No 86 in the world.
In the next feeder tournament, he beat Joao Geraldo 3/0 No 54 in the world!
He will surely have achieved these results through his technical "ability"....😜

He won't go far with the terrible footwork and weak FH that he has. A lot of it is just bullying the unfamiliarity of players on the tour with anti. It's just very annoying to see good players like Gauzy (who took LJK to 5th set decider) losing to guys like him who has significant technical weaknesses.

This is why I said, I'm still waiting for a twiddling LP/inverted penholder with massive RSM or Xu Xin like FH loopkill on the tour. The style is so strong that it allowed some amateur players to upset national team members here. The inverted side will be killing all long balls and LPs used to push short serves that previously can't really be received short (extreme sidetopspin serves), and for extra variation in receive + slowing down the game through chopblocks etc... I am not exactly sure why no pro is intentionally training like this.

Imo penholders went the wrong direction with all of them trying to train RPB like crazy. Sorry but it's really damn hard to best shakehand players with topspin rallying. This is why there's only 1 Wang Hao and 1 Felix Lebrun. RPB also forces them to play in the exact way that shakehanders like - ie go into topspin rally mode from the get go.

 

[kase]

I am not exactly sure why no pro is intentionally training like this.

I think it's because of this: It's a big risk to develop a new style, it takes time, you will go down several levels while you are learning it. If you are a top upcoming junior and have a sponsorship, you will probably not perform well enough to keep it, will lose your place in the state / nat teams etc until you reach your old level. It would be worse for current pros who are expected to perform well every week and rely on the salary. It's a much easier choice to just continue doing what you are currently doing, what others before you have done, what you see the highest level players doing. I think this is also why there are a lot less penholders, pimple players in general etc. People just copy what they see works, copy their role models, it's the easiest and usually the most fun choice.

However if you are not a pro and under that pressure, you are free to do what you want. You can innovate, experiment and not worry about those things.

 

[blahness]

I think it's because of this: It's a big risk to develop a new style, it takes time, you will go down several levels while you are learning it. If you are a top upcoming junior and have a sponsorship, you will probably not perform well enough to keep it, will lose your place in the state / nat teams etc until you reach your old level. It would be worse for current pros who are expected to perform well every week and rely on the salary. It's a much easier choice to just continue doing what you are currently doing, what others before you have done, what you see the highest level players doing. I think this is also why there are a lot less penholders, pimple players in general etc. People just copy what they see works, copy their role models, it's the easiest and usually the most fun choice.

However if you are not a pro and under that pressure, you are free to do what you want. You can innovate, experiment and not worry about those things.

I meant for upcoming juniors. There's no guarantee that you would make it as a double inverted player either as there's 1001 kids playing the exact same way...

 

[kase]

I meant for upcoming juniors. There's no guarantee that you would make it as a double inverted player either as there's 1001 kids playing the exact same way...

Correct but at least you know it's possible with that style as others have done it before. Also for the coaches, do they want to take a risk developing a junior with a new unproven style? It is a business and they have a reputation after all. If it didn't work out, it would be a bad look for the coach and the parents may be upset that the kid now has to unlearn habits and learn new ones at a late stage.

There are a lot of tiger parents in my area who literally had to be banned from observing their kids' training due to the scolding the kids would get after making mistakes. They have a firm idea of what should be trained and how to play. It's rare to find a junior who is passionate, without those types of parents, who wants to try a new novel style (and finds it fun.)

The coaching course also teaches the one standard (outdated) way to do things, was completely useless and a waste of time unfortunately, so you won't really find any innovation and deeper understanding there, instead they are trying to standardise, clone and mechanise the system to copy the Chinese system, which of course is a bad idea in western countries since we don't have the same money, science, coaches, population and career opportunities - our kids like to have a childhood, study and have social lives, go to uni etc and don't just spend 8h per day training like a robot.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Correct but at least you know it's possible with that style as others have done it before. Also for the coaches, do they want to take a risk developing a junior with a new unproven style? It is a business and they have a reputation after all. If it didn't work out, it would be a bad look for the coach and the parents may be upset that the kid now has to unlearn habits and learn new ones at a late stage.

Coaches in Taiwan will study the player and make advises.
almost 99% of the changes in style is "my coach recommended" around the grade 4~5

There are a lot of tiger parents in my area who literally had to be banned from observing their kids' training due to the scolding the kids would get after making mistakes. They have a firm idea of what should be trained and how to play. It's rare to find a junior who is passionate, without those types of parents, who wants to try a new novel style (and finds it fun.)

parent indeed are a headache for coaches in almost every team/school I know
its not just kids getting the scolding, but coaches getting scolding from one parent.
And if you "allow the parent" to take over, then all parents will take over... its a mess people don't really talk about.

The coaching course also teaches the one standard (outdated) way to do things, was completely useless and a waste of time unfortunately, so you won't really find any innovation and deeper understanding there, instead they are trying to standardise, clone and mechanise the system to copy the Chinese system, which of course is a bad idea in western countries since we don't have the same money, science, coaches, population and career opportunities - our kids like to have a childhood, study and have social lives, go to uni etc and don't just spend 8h per day training like a robot.

so this is maybe where trying something different is not a bad thing.
Like Eli Ho of NZ
I'm not saying what Eli is doing is correct or ideal, but it is working for him and it isn't the equipment or style only, it is the time and investment put in. He recently trained with Taiwan's top future prodigy (became senior national team member at 13 year old - beating LYJ by 1 year)

 

[Metaxa]

…and gets beaten by #148, which proves exactly what? Luka won against Gauzy and Uda in Bundesliga.

Just as if that is all the most normal thing in the world that he can beat several players from the top-100 with his "technical ability", relegating these players to third-rate players.

 

[Metaxa]

Without training nothing can be achieved, yes he has that equipment but he's mastered it. It's not like we can pick it up and beat Kreanga.

That is true. Indeed, he will have to have done some training for it. But this is living proof that that boy must have had (and clearly still has) famously technical shortcomings and can win against top classical players thanks to the use of technical equipment. So stating that, when you can't gain advantages with technical equipment, this seems to me, an out of the blue observation.

 

[longrange]

It's just very annoying to see good players like Gauzy (who took LJK to 5th set decider) losing to guys like him who has significant technical weaknesses.

It's the problem of the Gauzy's style actually. He won vs Xu Xin in 2019 just to be absolutely annihilated by Falck. Playing too far away from the table just naturally gets punished.

 

[longrange]

Just as if that is all the most normal thing in the world that he can beat several players from the top-100 with his "technical ability", relegating these players to third-rate players.

It really boils down to the clash of play styles. There's a bunch of modern players who like to run around: Gauzy, Alexis, Jang Woojin, lots of japanese, etc. And they all struggle against players efficient at/on the table: Falck, Harimoto and, as it turns out, Luka. These modern players are athletic and entertaining to watch and all that, but I guess running around doesn't win matches.

In the last WCQ vs LJK the former managed to chase away the latter from the table and was simply murdering LJK's loops off the bounce.

OTOH, Luka met Olah, who doesn't have much footwork, doesn't run around, but has insane kill shot power, and got destroyed. That's a naturally inconvenient style for a chop blocker, like him.

 

[vanjr]

I hate to contribute to thread drift, but was it actually suggested earlier that Hugo C. would have destroyed Ma Lin if they were to meet and play in their primes? I do hate comparing different eras, but I am not sure how anyone could suggest a good modern player would destroy someone like Ma Lin, one of the greatest players of all time...
I must be so out of touch with the current game but there is no way.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I hate to contribute to thread drift, but was it actually suggested earlier that Hugo C. would have destroyed Ma Lin if they were to meet and play in their primes? I do hate comparing different eras, but I am not sure how anyone could suggest a good modern player would destroy someone like Ma Lin, one of the greatest players of all time...
I must be so out of touch with the current game but there is no way.

I also don't think it will happen
Hugo can't even thrash modern era Chinese champions, yet alone a very fearsome and tricky player like Ma Lin.

Ma Lin and Wang Liqin was like bulls back then. they are forever training. The new crop don't even train as much as them and there wasn't that many sport science in Ma Lin's era too.
I still remember Ma Lin holes a mizuno shoe every 3~5 days or so.
Maybe the shoe quality was bad then, but his team mate takes few weeks.

 

[Lando]

You just need practice against LP. There are players at my club that are several hundred points lower than me, but have beaten me because they have a lot of experience against LP.
As someone mentioned, push one, attack one. Serve underspin and attack the next ball.
I use LP because they took out deception from the sport (only 2 serves and no more hiding serve), which was my favorite part. LP brought that aspect back.
I think OP is probably a new player because anyone that I play against that is at least 2000 USATT have no issues playing against me and attack almost everything. I think it comes down to confidence in your attacks.
A 2000+ rated player doesn't care if it has backspin, they understand they can loop through it.
I recently played against a 2300 USATT player and it was a beat down, LP didn't bother them one bit. I got crushed 4/0

 

[John_]

Holy mother of jesus this thread exploded...