Why do people say LP's should be banned?

[TensorBackhand]

The text in that animation litterally says that the stroke reduces the amouny of spin on the ball.

So while your topspin gets returned as backspin by the LP, it is less spin than what you gave it. Of course if you gave it topspin from hell, it'll still be a lot of backspin you get back.

The reason people disagree with you, is because you say the LP generate spin. As in: add more spin. And that doesn't happen with the strokes in your animations

Theoretically, spin increase could happen with this bat angle, if the pips are flicked in some way during the contact, like a whip. That would require the bats motion to stop and reverse. I don't want to discredit your experience, perhaps your opponents do that, but I dont know if that's possible in reality.

I didn't say it adds spin. But fine, just to clear up the confusion: LP doesn't add spin.

The slice shot from the LP results in a topspin ball.

 

[TensorBackhand]

The text in that animation litterally says that the stroke reduces the amouny of spin on the ball.

So while your topspin gets returned as backspin by the LP, it is less spin than what you gave it. Of course if you gave it topspin from hell, it'll still be a lot of backspin you get back.

The reason people disagree with you, is because you say the LP generate spin. As in: add more spin. And that doesn't happen with the strokes in your animations. Maybe the disagreement is just over the interpretation of the word generate.

Theoretically, spin increase could happen with this bat angle, if the pips are flicked in some way during the contact, like a whip. That would require the bats motion to stop and reverse however, so that's not the same stroke as in the pictures. I don't want to discredit your experience, perhaps your opponents do that, but I dont know if that's possible in reality.

But again, here your own words testify against you.

Imagine if somebody invented a new type of LP that DOES add to the spin, somehow changes the spin to sidespin, or any manner of wacky confusion.

Should this new rubber be allowed for the sake of variety?

 

[NextLevel]

Missing the forest for the trees.

You are free to think whatever you want. But to set the record straight: YES, with LP you can hit a topspin shot with a slice and you can hit a underspin shot with a forward topspin motion.

Yes this is correct, but is entirely dependent on the incoming spin and is rarely if ever "heavy". I agree that reading the ball as if it is an inverted ball is the biggest problem, but that is not just about spin inversion but about the float ball as well.

 

[NextLevel]

I didn't say it adds spin. But fine, just to clear up the confusion: LP doesn't add spin.

The slice shot from the LP results in a topspin ball.

The slice shot against incoming backspin you mean. Not against incoming topspin. People who don't know you don't know you are trolling on purpose.

 

[TensorBackhand]

The alice shot against incoming backspin you mean. Not against incoming topspin. People who don't know you don't know you are trolling on purpose.

just check the gif man. I didn't say against incoming topspin.

 

[blahness]

The text in that animation litterally says that the stroke reduces the amouny of spin on the ball.

So while your topspin gets returned as backspin by the LP, it is less spin than what you gave it. Of course if you gave it topspin from hell, it'll still be a lot of backspin you get back.

The reason people disagree with you, is because you say the LP generate spin. As in: add more spin. And that doesn't happen with the strokes in your animations. Maybe the disagreement is just over the interpretation of the word generate.

Theoretically, spin increase could happen with this bat angle, if the pips are flicked in some way during the contact, like a whip. That would require the bats motion to stop and reverse however, so that's not the same stroke as in the pictures. I don't want to discredit your experience, perhaps your opponents do that, but I dont know if that's possible in reality.

With higher level pips players, they can choose to add to the spin reversal, kill the incoming spin, or even give back the same spin all with minute differences in the contact that they control with their wrist/fingers. It is not as straightforward as what forum members here would want you to believe... If you watch Joo Se Hyuk chopping back a backspin ball with his LPs, it is often quite heavy backspin too, not necessarily spin reversed to become a topspin ball.

It is the spin variation that is the most problematic to face, not so much the spin reversal aspect. And also the techniques are very different from inverted techniques so if your brain is not computing it fast enough you will most likely make tons of unforced errors against them, especially against fast twiddlers.

 

[NextLevel]

People who want to pretend thar long pips can turn water into wine want to eat their cake and have it. In reality, any long pips that is less predictable also plays more and more like short pips or inverted with maybe a few more ball deadening abilities. It's possible for pips users to do interesting things against slow balls but against topspin, the abilities are limited

Most close to the table LP users who maximize reversal play with OX or no sponge which maximizes reversal but also maximizes predictability. Thicker sponge allows for more of a different kind of control, but it also makes the pips more responsive to spin and grippier. It takes a skilled hand to let the ball slip through on slow shots. But these long pips with sponge that allow variation and adding spin are more often used by choppers or in cases where they are more dead ball focused, hitters. They are not favored by the close to the table blockers that many players define as unathletic.

If you struggle with reversal. It is one thing. But if you are struggle with someone whose pips have some sponge or grip, unless they are chopping, your struggle is likely more more with the dead ball and not the ability to chop block heavy backspin.

But of course, there is always some trolling going on with the goal of making it sound like long pips are the a magic totem that give the user incredible powers beyond the understanding of mere mortals. When the reality is usually that a high level pips player still needs a higher level understanding of spin and timing to create magic even if the athletic demands may not be quite the same.

 

[kase]

I tried some long pips the other night. 1mm sponge. Then a few nights later tried a different one in ox.

Ox was interesting. Totally different angles and an ability to really receive with placement on short balls. Really fun. Some reversal of spin. But against any type of power it's useless. I couldn't chop with it as it didn't have any dwell at all. It would need to be on a defensive blade to have any chance of chopping with it.

1mm was easier to use but not much reversal. Produced dead balls. Once again, against power it's useless. You need to chop once power comes your way, unless you have the timing to brush the ball off the bounce instead of just placing your bat there and choosing an angle. Even then the timing and angles are difficult.

Impossible to keep the ball truly low just by placing your bat there and choosing an angle, so every block was easily attackable. Very difficult to adjust to arc / spin / any kind of variation as that requires a completely different angle. Otherwise ball really pops or dies. There just isn't enough time to adjust to this variation in close to the table play, especially when the ball is fast.

So it's just what I thought it was. Pretty useless, unless your opponent is very predictable or has major issues. Inverted rubber is better if you want control, much safer as it holds the ball much longer and produces safe topspin.

 

[vvk1]

I tried some long pips the other night. 1mm sponge. Then a few nights later tried a different one in ox.

Ox was interesting. Totally different angles and an ability to really receive with placement on short balls. Really fun. Some reversal of spin. But against any type of power it's useless. I couldn't chop with it as it didn't have any dwell at all. It would need to be on a defensive blade to have any chance of chopping with it.

1mm was easier to use but not much reversal. Produced dead balls. Once again, against power it's useless. You need to chop once power comes your way, unless you have the timing to brush the ball off the bounce instead of just placing your bat there and choosing an angle. Even then the timing and angles are difficult.

Impossible to keep the ball truly low just by placing your bat there and choosing an angle, so every block was easily attackable. Very difficult to adjust to arc / spin / any kind of variation as that requires a completely different angle. Otherwise ball really pops or dies. There just isn't enough time to adjust to this variation in close to the table play, especially when the ball is fast.

So it's just what I thought it was. Pretty useless, unless your opponent is very predictable or has major issues. Inverted rubber is better if you want control, much safer as it holds the ball much longer and produces safe topspin.

This so true and so underappreciated - playing at any non-trivial level with LPs (or antispin) is actually very difficult and requires a lot of skill - just as much as playing well with inverted - precisely because it becomes much harder to control the ball. They are not a magic silver bullet to beating better players like some claim they are at all ...

 

[Johnniedarko]

But again, here your own words testify against you.

Imagine if somebody invented a new type of LP that DOES add to the spin, somehow changes the spin to sidespin, or any manner of wacky confusion.

Should this new rubber be allowed for the sake of variety?

I wasn't trying to make a point for or against pips. I just wanted to clear up a potential misunderstanding.

To answer your question, personally that sounds like fun.

 

[Belgamor TT]

Long Pimples are tricky because not many people use them, and they change the pace of the game, which is exactly what their users want. Where I live, 95% of LP players are over 50-60 years old, and they do it so they can control the pace of the game instead of chasing topspins from energetic players.
Playing against LP is not "that" hard, as a general rule it'll be topspin-push-topspin-push, but you have to make them move or they will toy with you. Sometimes they can attack with LP, in which case you have to lift the ball because it digs on the table, but they can't generate spin, only play with what you give them. It's a mental battle, and I actually enjoy it, it's something a bit different.
There is a place for all kind of rubbers, and I agree that if a rubber gives you a big unfair advantage it should be banned (like the Frictionless Long Pimples were banned at the time), but LP will only give you an advantage at a certain level of play, the higher you go the more experienced players will be and they will have muscle memory against LP and Anti (most probably).

 

[paulispaul]

In general, the vast majority of those who play ping pong do so recreationally, even those who train with a coach. They are lazy. They are not interested in becoming so obsessed with this sport, even if it is just adding a few variables to the game, in order to know the mechanics of pips. They are the same ones who don't know how to play against antispin, sp and mp. To avoid the shame of their ignorance, they blame others.