Why do people say LP's should be banned?

[NextLevel]

That is true. Indeed, he will have to have done some training for it. But this is living proof that that boy must have had (and clearly still has) famously technical shortcomings and can win against top classical players thanks to the use of technical equipment. So stating that, when you can't gain advantages with technical equipment, this seems to me, an out of the blue observation.

Ever heard of Pavel Platonov? Dima Ovtcharov? Thomas Keinath? Quadri Aruna? Benedek Olah?

Many if not all players have technical shortcomings which they compensate for with other things - do you only notice this when it happens with rubbers that are not inverted?

You even notice this in Harimoto and Harimoto is a top 10 player!

 

[NextLevel]

That is true. Indeed, he will have to have done some training for it. But this is living proof that that boy must have had (and clearly still has) famously technical shortcomings and can win against top classical players thanks to the use of technical equipment. So stating that, when you can't gain advantages with technical equipment, this seems to me, an out of the blue observation.

No, it is not proof of anything. You have to know his story to say that. And such story would be true of even someone who has technical shortcomings which you do not notice because you have the anti-pips bias.

 

[Der_Echte]

That's a great idea actually. I'll probably do that and have my coach do the basic LP stuff. He's advanced enough and has good feel where he can probably replicate it well enough without actually being a LP player.

I can do this because I have a ton of free time and my coach in Vietnam charges about 10 dollars an hour. Haven't found a training partner in America that would do something like this as most people I meet just want to maximize the enjoyment they have in their leisure time. Buncha slackers amirite?

Hopefully I'll get so good at it that I'll also forget that not everyone has the opportunity and time to do stuff like this, and I can condescendingly tell people that LP are essentially the same as different play styles with inverted rubber, despite them behaving fundamentally different as a matter of physics.

Real inexpensive to make a training LP bat...

Colestt.com sourced

Blade: Air Touch $15 USD
LP Rubber: Air Upupupup $12 USD
Inverted Rubber: Slap on a used rubber for zero USD
Shipping: under $10 USD

Total cost: around $35 USD for a complete LP bat you can train with or against.

In Korea, I built myself an OX LP bat so I could learn how the women (80% of them used an OX LP bat) played, so I could feel how they do it and learn how to play and win vs them.

 

[NextLevel]

I hate to contribute to thread drift, but was it actually suggested earlier that Hugo C. would have destroyed Ma Lin if they were to meet and play in their primes? I do hate comparing different eras, but I am not sure how anyone could suggest a good modern player would destroy someone like Ma Lin, one of the greatest players of all time...
I must be so out of touch with the current game but there is no way.

It's really a comment about the player's understanding of table tennis. Blahness is mostly trolling for/against pips with some of his comments, but lowday20298 revealed his familiarity with table tennis as a combination of mind and muscle right there.

 

[NextLevel]

Just as if that is all the most normal thing in the world that he can beat several players from the top-100 with his "technical ability", relegating these players to third-rate players.

You need to get out more and see more unorthodox table tennis styles if you really believe this. There are a lot of styles out there that if honed to a high level by someone with the physical capability, could get someone into top hundred. You just won't see or hear about them because as a wise man pointed out in this thread, the path of using pips or older inverted to get to a high level is much riskier than the path of using inverted with two winged looping/topspin. People like you like to pretend it is the other way round, but it clearly isn't, even the lady who beat Sun Yingsha is not going to beat most of her national teammates.

Spin and consistency are the core of table tennis, athleticism enables both, but it is very parochial to repeatedly claim that what Luka is doing is a result of technical deficiency and is easy. Joo used to lose to his teammates all the time in international competition. You don't get to the top with those styles without being extremely good as a player, let's stop these pretentious comments about technique which pretend that what Luka is doing is easy.

 

[Metaxa]

You just need practice against LP. There are players at my club that are several hundred points lower than me, but have beaten me because they have a lot of experience against LP.
As someone mentioned, push one, attack one. Serve underspin and attack the next ball.
I use LP because they took out deception from the sport (only 2 serves and no more hiding serve), which was my favorite part. LP brought that aspect back.
I think OP is probably a new player because anyone that I play against that is at least 2000 USATT have no issues playing against me and attack almost everything. I think it comes down to confidence in your attacks.
A 2000+ rated player doesn't care if it has backspin, they understand they can loop through it.
I recently played against a 2300 USATT player and it was a beat down, LP didn't bother them one bit. I got crushed 4/0

That is definitely true. Practising a lot against LP or anti-players helps. The question remains, why do they indulge in these rubbers and how come such players suddenly skyrocket out of nowhere until...they hit their own limits and their opponents can read the game? Then what have you achieved for yourself?

 

[Metaxa]

Ever heard of Pavel Platonov? Dima Ovtcharov? Thomas Keinath? Quadri Aruna? Benedek Olah?

Many if not all players have technical shortcomings which they compensate for with other things - do you only notice this when it happens with rubbers that are not inverted?

You even notice this in Harimoto and Harimoto is a top 10 player!

Platonov and Keinath doesn't sound familiar to my ears.
Oh Dima, imagine him playing with technical stuff because he cannot push on his FH and keeps using his BH to do so. Just him is living proof that with perseverance and shortcomings, you belong to one of the best in the world. He doesn't need technical material for that.

 

[NextLevel]

Platonov and Keinath doesn't sound familiar to my ears.
Oh Dima, imagine him playing with technical stuff because he cannot push on his FH and keeps using his BH to do so. Just him is living proof that with perseverance and shortcomings, you belong to one of the best in the world. He doesn't need technical material for that.

So you think it would have being easier for him to use "technical stuff" to achieve his goals?

 

[Metaxa]

No, it is not proof of anything. You have to know his story to say that. And such story would be true of even someone who has technical shortcomings which you do not notice because you have the anti-pips bias.

Sorry but I really cannot understand such people and especially not when they have their (table tennis) future ahead of them. Nothing justified the choice to start with technical equipment. Were it not there, everyone would do their best to take a technical sport like table tennis to its highest possible level according to their ability.
I attended the world table tennis championships for Alzheimer and Parkinson players last November (as a spectator). I do understand these people when they play with technical rubbers and try to make the best of it.

 

[Metaxa]

So you think it would have being easier for him to use "technical stuff" to achieve his goals?

Not clear whether you understood or read my text properly but I did not write that anywhere.

 

[NextLevel]

Sorry but I really cannot understand such people and especially not when they have their (table tennis) future ahead of them. Nothing justified the choice to start with technical equipment. Were it not there, everyone would do their best to take a technical sport like table tennis to its highest possible level according to their ability.
I attended the world table tennis championships for Alzheimer and Parkinson players last November (as a spectator). I do understand these people when they play with technical rubbers and try to make the best of it.

Part of the problem with the world is when someone sees something he cannot understand and deems it a bad thing because he cannot understand it. The game is not to hit the hardest ball possible, it is to keep the ball on the table given the rules. But it is okay, you have your own opinion, but what I do not understand is why you don't want to accept that not everyone wants to play topspin vs topspin and that if they want to use a different approach, one that is enhanced by using a different kind of material, it is entirely their prerogative as long as the rules allow it. Their material is much closer to what table tennis originally was played with.

The fact that there are still rules even around what kind of inverted sponge and material can be used makes it clear that even the idea that playing with inverted is taking the sport to its highest technical level has its limits.

 

[NextLevel]

Not clear whether you understood or read my text properly but I did not write that anywhere.

You wrote " imagine him playing with technical stuff because he cannot push on his FH and keeps using his BH to do so." My point is that since it is not to his advantage to use that, why should he use it? And that when Luka is using such material, or even Gionis, is it because they have an issue or is it because it is how they want to play and given their overall desire, it is how they play best?

 

[Metaxa]

But it is okay, you have your own opinion, but what I do not understand is why you don't want to accept that not everyone wants to play topspin vs topspin and that if they want to use a different approach, one that is enhanced by using a different kind of material, it is entirely their prerogative as long as the rules allow it. Their material is much closer to what table tennis originally was played with.

The fact that there are still rules even around what kind of inverted sponge and material can be used makes it clear that even the idea that playing with inverted is taking the sport to its highest technical level has its limits.

Indeed, everyone is allowed to have an opinion and certainly not everyone has to agree with it.
In fact, all those countless discussions about LP/SP and Anti here on the forum should be allowed to be banned. There is no need at all to open this "rubber problem" with new topics every time.
Indeed, the rules are there (unfortunately) so you just have to practice enough to be the better one but most importantly the smartest.

 

[Metaxa]

You wrote " imagine him playing with technical stuff because he cannot push on his FH and keeps using his BH to do so." My point is that since it is not to his advantage to use that, why should he use it? And that when Luka is using such material, or even Gionis, is it because they have an issue or is it because it is how they want to play and given their overall desire, it is how they play best?

Okay, imagine Dima has technical material on his BH that allows him to push on his FH. Imagine that makes him the No.1 in the world after x-number of months because he can then take advantage thanks to the material due to his shortcomings in pushing on his FH. He would probably completely surprise himself with that but I am sure with his small "problem" he is not going to resort to using technical rubbers on his BH.

 

[NextLevel]

Okay, imagine Dima has technical material on his BH that allows him to push on his FH. Imagine that makes him the No.1 in the world after x-number of months because he can then take advantage thanks to the material due to his shortcomings in pushing on his FH. He would probably completely surprise himself with that but I am sure with his small "problem" he is not going to resort to using technical rubbers on his BH.

I wish you wrote regular English, it is harder to see the different terminologies using a translator.

There was a time Dima tried using Hurricane on forehand during the brief period he was coached by Persson. After a while, he gave up and went back to his regular rubbers before Butterfly developed Dignics 09c.

If Dima cannot play with H3, does it mean his technique is bad? Or is there a reason why it is okay to play with H3 but not to play with Grass D. Tecs? I think everyone agrees that H3 has good and bad points as does Grass D Techs or Neubauer frictionless anti-spin has good and bad sides. If someone cannot use them, is it automatically because something is wrong with them?

 

[Metaxa]

I wish you wrote regular English, it is harder to see the different terminologies using a translator.

There was a time Dima tried using Hurricane on forehand during the brief period he was coached by Persson. After a while, he gave up and went back to his regular rubbers before Butterfly developed Dignics 09c.

If Dima cannot play with H3, does it mean his technique is bad? Or is there a reason why it is okay to play with H3 but not to play with Grass D. Tecs? I think everyone agrees that H3 has good and bad points as does Grass D Techs or Neubauer frictionless anti-spin has good and bad sides. If someone cannot use them, is it automatically because something is wrong with them?

It's not black & white. "Something wrong" is a huge word, your word, not mine.
H3 is a inverted rubber with a little different feeling then other inverted rubbers. You like it or not. You gave me a bad example. Grass D.Tecs with or without mouse, that's an other story. This is a rubber for players with technical limits but difficult to use. Should they have spent more time practising with reverse rubbers at least they would get that far. But someone told them, just use a technical rubber, it's easier for you. That's how it works!

 

[NextLevel]

It's not black & white. "Something wrong" is a huge word, your word, not mine.
H3 is a inverted rubber with a little different feeling then other inverted rubbers. You like it or not. You gave me a bad example. Grass D.Tecs with or without mouse, that's an other story. This is a rubber for players with technical limits but difficult to use. Should they have spent more time practising with reverse rubbers at least they would get that far. But someone told them, just use a technical rubber, it's easier for you. That's how it works!

"Technical limits" : please explain what this means beyond something is wrong with the player because they cannot play with inverted. Because you keep saying that "technical rubber" is used because someone has "technical limits" as opposed to just accepting that the person might just want to play completely differently.

 

[Loop Lob Smash]

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Because they can’t play against them. I’ve never heard a player who has no issues playing pips players suggest they should be banned honestly 😂

 

[AchyGeorge]

A technically deficient player who hardly trained??🤣