ITTF WTTC Finals Doha 2025, 5/17-25

[NextLevel]

TT players are way too kind for their own good. I can understand if they are Asian, but to think Europeans would do the same is beyond me.

When your hear beats fast, you experience time at a faster rate than when your heart is beating slowly. So Hugo was probably overexcited and wanted to get the match over with but kept swinging too early and mistinwd the ball. But in thr infamous words of Wang Manyu, when you are struggling, it is easy for people to tell you not to struggle or for you to tell yourself to struggle or to play faster or slower and if solving the problem was that easy everyone would be doing it. That's why I find some people silly and wonder wherher they have actually played table tennis, it is not as easy as implementing something if it is not in the broader skillet or tied to a particular stroke that the player is skilled at using.

 

[latej]

When your hear beats fast, you experience time at a faster rate than when your heart is beating slowly. So Hugo was probably overexcited and wanted to get the match over with but kept swinging too early and mistinwd the ball. But in thr infamous words of Wang Manyu, when you are struggling, it is easy for people to tell you not to struggle or for you to tell yourself to struggle or to play faster or slower and if solving the problem was that easy everyone would be doing it. That's why I find some people silly and wonder wherher they have actually played table tennis, it is not as easy as implementing something if it is not in the broader skillet or tied to a particular stroke that the player is skilled at using.

I think the same, but @banbekas was speaking about the toilet break, at least so I understood it... Anyway, following is highly hypothetical, but LJK doesn't strike me as coming up with the idea himself. It's more like the idea was planted, like you are taught to use a tool. And that is much more dislike-able... OooR, you start to look at it as a weakness, and then, problem solved ;-)

 

[SFF_lib]

Truls is a great player and one of my favorites but he doesn't have Hugo quality or power. Maybe the only thing he is better at than Hugo is control but not by much. If Hugo gets those rallies that Truls got, Hugo will win many more than Truls did because he is more powerful than Truls. In fact Wang is not a better rally player than LJK. The thing is that Wang requires you to lose to his shots early in the point most of the time. But Hugo usually doesn't back down he counters shots with interest so a lot sill depend on who gets the edge in serve and receive far more than usual. I dont believe yhat the CNT would have found something wrong with Hugo and not given the info to LJK so tomorrow will be about effort.

After Xu Xin, Hugo is no doubt the best in long distance rallies. I just hope at 28 Hugo can perform consistently well in the match!!

 

[Grahf]

LETS FUCKING GO HUGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

He HAS to win man, this is his chance, I do think he has the resources to beat WCQ again

Just like eminem, if you had one shot...

 

[NextLevel]

I think the same, but @banbekas was speaking about the toilet break, at least so I understood it... Anyway, following is highly hypothetical, but LJK doesn't strike me as coming up with the idea himself. It's more like the idea was planted, like you are taught to use a tool. And that is much more dislike-able... OooR, you start to look at it as a weakness, and then, problem solved ;-)

I responded to the wrong post I meant to respond to his next post and clicked on the wrong one.

 

[banbekas]

When your hear beats fast, you experience time at a faster rate than when your heart is beating slowly. So Hugo was probably overexcited and wanted to get the match over with but kept swinging too early and mistinwd the ball. But in thr infamous words of Wang Manyu, when you are struggling, it is easy for people to tell you not to struggle or for you to tell yourself to struggle or to play faster or slower and if solving the problem was that easy everyone would be doing it. That's why I find some people silly and wonder wherher they have actually played table tennis, it is not as easy as implementing something if it is not in the broader skillet or tied to a particular stroke that the player is skilled at using.

Seems like wrong quote there, sir. lol
But yeah, I agree. We get way too excited at the prospect of winning to the point we somehow play it tight.

 

[zeio]

This going to restroom for shirt change between matches when someone is 0:2 down should be banned. This is pretty unfair to other players. Changing your shirt on the court like Hugo is not inappropriate. I don't know why no professionals complain about it. Would FZD have lost to HT if he did not go to the restroom after game 2? Who knows, but FZD came back and won the match at the end.

In case you aren't aware, Harimoto didn't complain. He lost like a man and didn't act a loser like many players would.

In the 5-part Butterfly interview after Paris 2024, Harimoto said he expected FZD to use the locker room after being down 0-2. Harimoto used one himself as well after 2-2, IIRC. He knew he "had no more savings" after winning G2 11:9 and, in his own words, that was worse than FZD going to the locker room for a change of cloth to change the flow (FZD said as much in the TV interview 樊振东:专注做自己 面对面 and how he was willing to try it to see if it would change the flow, which was WH's idea but he also told WH he brought 3 jerseys for the match in case he needed them). Other than the mindset of what losing there meant to China and the rest of the world that was also a deciding factor, he focused on how he failed to get a point after 7:7 of G7 that showed the difference between them.

And in the episode of Takkyu Japan that aired on 2024/12/14, Harimoto admitted the immense pressure on FZD after WCQ lost to Moregard made it possible for him to push to G7. Otherwise, the best he could've done was 2-4 and that he still didn't think 3-4 was right strength-wise.

パリ五輪男子シングルスベスト8　
張本智和インタビュー②
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/024823.html

樊振东谈上热搜及对战张本换衣服
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1c1pCerEhU?t=147

 

[kindof99]

I think one day this locker room break will be written into the ITTF rules. At least no coach should accompany the player to the locker room. It is too much extra time for coaching.

 

[banbekas]

In case you aren't aware, Harimoto didn't complain. He lost like a man and didn't act a loser like many players would.

In the 5-part Butterfly interview after Paris 2024, Harimoto said he expected FZD to use the locker room after being down 0-2. Harimoto used one himself as well after 2-2, IIRC. He knew he "had no more savings" after winning G2 11:9 and, in his own words, that was worse than FZD going to the locker room for a change of cloth to change the flow (FZD said as much in the TV interview 樊振东:专注做自己 面对面 and how he was willing to try it to see if it would change the flow, which was WH's idea but he also told WH he brought 3 jerseys for the match in case he needed them). Other than the mindset of what losing there meant to China and the rest of the world that was also a deciding factor, he focused on how he failed to get a point after 7:7 of G7 that showed the difference between them.

And in the episode of Takkyu Japan that aired on 2024/12/14, Harimoto admitted the immense pressure on FZD after WCQ lost to Moregard made it possible for him to push to G7. Otherwise, the best he could've done was 2-4 and that he still didn't think 3-4 was right strength-wise.

パリ五輪男子シングルスベスト8　
張本智和インタビュー②
https://www.butterfly.co.jp/takurepo/interview/detail/024823.html

樊振东谈上热搜及对战张本换衣服
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1c1pCerEhU?t=147

Based on how he chose his words, I'd like to see Hari runs as a politician one day. That's one elaborate way to show yourself as a good and honest man to win people's heart. Mizutani should learn a thing or two from the young man.

 

[zeio]

You are on your own there. Mizutani can't tell people how they should deserve medals he never won.

Still arguing with yourself.

Ito said "she's the only current Olympic gold medalist of Japan" to get back at everyone after losing out on WS and rejected the idea of serving as the reserve player (same for Asian Games 2022, abandoning WT after missing out on WS) and Mizutani had to wipe her ass when she only had an Olympic bronze, World Cup bronze and Asian Cup silver in singles at that point and paled in comparison to Fukuhara and Ishikawa if not for the Olympic bronze while Hirano had a WTTC bronze, World Cup gold (first-ever World Title holder born after 2000), and ATTC gold.

So please.

 

[JackJohnson]

I think one day this locker room break will be written into the ITTF rules. At least no coach should accompany the player to the locker room. It is too much extra time for coaching.

I have no problem with players using the toilet especially if they need to take a dump or have diarrhoea but the coach needs to stay at the bench while the player goes to the toilet.

I’m not sure why LJK didn’t want to change his shirt right there just like Hugo. Maybe he was too embarrassed and didn’t want people looking at him as he is not fit like Hugo.

If a player does need to change his/her shirt then they have every right to choose whether they want to choose to change their shirt publicly or privately. Just make sure the coach stays at the bench and doesn’t follow the player.

 

[banbekas]

I’m not sure why LJK didn’t want to change his shirt right there just like Hugo. Maybe he was too embarrassed and didn’t want people looking at him as he is not fit like Hugo.

A petition for all TT pros to be shredded seems like a good idea.

 

[zeio]

Based on how he chose his words, I'd like to see Hari runs as a politician one day. That's one elaborate way to show yourself as a good and honest man to win people's heart. Mizutani should learn a thing or two from the young man.

Harimoto was bold as well in his early days (all the comments about beating CNT players from TWC 2018 to WTTC 2018 to WTTC 2019), but has gradually become more mature/humble through his lessons.

Like it or not, Mizutani is set for life, "the first Olympic gold medalist of Japanese table tennis" gets tossed right at the viewers/readers for every TV or media appearance, and before that, "the first Olympic MS bronze medalist of Japanese table tennis".

 

[Lazer]

WCQ has more speed an agility than LJK so the final will be more difficult for Hugo to keep up. I guess he will take 1 set…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[NextLevel]

Still arguing with yourself.

Ito said "she's the only current Olympic gold medalist of Japan" to get back at everyone after losing out on WS and rejected the idea of serving as the reserve player (same for Asian Games 2022, abandoning WT after missing out on WS) and Mizutani had to wipe her ass when she only had an Olympic bronze, World Cup bronze and Asian Cup silver in singles at that point and paled in comparison to Fukuhara and Ishikawa if not for the Olympic bronze while Hirano had a WTTC bronze, World Cup gold (first-ever World Title holder born after 2000), and ATTC gold.

So please.

Now you are just making noise - Ito has a right to say what she wants to say - it doesn't mean she is right or I agree with her, her argument was clearly out a desire to actually play in the Olympics and that is her desire and her business. Mizutani has a right to say what he wants to say. But he has no standing to tell Hayata or Ito that their medals are not real medals because they beat Wang Yidi or any nonsense like that. Everyone beats the player in front of them. And Harimoto's mother understood that because Mizutani has medals in the Olympics, he had standing to criticize Harimoto who went without medals in this Olympics, especially with the good chances they had, and she pointed out that Mizutani was the one that had to say it - of course, I don't completely agree with Mizutani but I agree he has standing on that one. And till now, you refuse to accept that point and keep going off in new tangents rather than sticking to the point which is that a medal is a medal well deserved, we can debate this and that about how hard it was to earn etc., but anyone who had seen Wang Yidi beat Ito all this while and then comes back to say that Ito didn't work on her game to beat Wang is just being a noisemaker. And the only one who has standing to criticize how it was earned is someone who has earned it.

My last words on this subject because you keep raising tangential points to avoid accepting the main point that has already been established. No one is talking about historical greatness or any other such trash - all we are discussing is whether it is worth listening seriously to people who criticize medal winners when those people have never won those medals (or better medals than those) they are criticizing people for winning. My position is no, your position is yes. We can agree to disagree. And you can continue posting your Tieba trash, but everyone can decide what attitude to take to someone who has never won anything but thinks he can pontificate on exactly how those who are winning should proceed.

 

[NextLevel]

If Ma Long was still playing today do you think Hugo current form will be able to beat him. The H2H between the two is 5-0 to Ma Long.

It would depend on whether Hugo's over the table game could handle Ma Long's variation. Hugo has gotten better at not backing off than he used to and his short game is better but the problem with Ma Long was that you never knew what he was going to do and Hugo just got surprised way too much. WCQ might be prepared but his short game is nothing compared to what Ma Long could throw at you. And Hugo had pronounced problems reading Ma Long's serves.

 

[NextLevel]

Same hoping the Man of America take the titles twice in a year.

But my logical mind says the CNT has prepared so much to ensure it does not happen.

The CNT didn't prepare Liang to win?

 

[zeio]

In a showcase of CNT coaching level, after G6, Liu Zhiqiang told LJK how he played right and to keep it up, (Bobrow was too excited to shut up), to be active and stay calm during the rallies, and to loop to Calderano's FH-middle once he's off the table and then to his BH, and not just to his BH constantly, also to loop to his middle when he's close to the table.

LJK executed them to a T on the first 3 points at the start of G7, but then on the last point at 9:10 he played to Calderano's BH instead of middle, costing him the match.

MS SF
LJK (5) 3-4 Calderano (3) (-13, -7, 8, -8, 3, 7, -9)
G1 96, 910, 1010, 1011, 1111, 1112, 1212, 1213, 1313, 1315. The FH fade push made all the difference.
G2 30, 37, 57, 58, 78, 711
G3 20, 22, 32, 33, 53, 56 TO for LJK, 86, 87, 97, 98, 118
G4 01, 11, 15, 25, 27, 47, 48, 58, 59, 79 TO for Calderano, 89, 811
G5 50 Calderano served into the table edge, 70, 73, 113
G6 30, 31, 41, 42, 52, 53, 63, 66, 76, 77, 117
G7 30, 35 endline edge for Calderano, 310 10 in a row, 910 6 in a row, 911

 

[zeio]

I have no problem with players using the toilet especially if they need to take a dump or have diarrhoea but the coach needs to stay at the bench while the player goes to the toilet.

I’m not sure why LJK didn’t want to change his shirt right there just like Hugo. Maybe he was too embarrassed and didn’t want people looking at him as he is not fit like Hugo.

If a player does need to change his/her shirt then they have every right to choose whether they want to choose to change their shirt publicly or privately. Just make sure the coach stays at the bench and doesn’t follow the player.

It's equal for both sides. The coach and player on the other side are free to take advantage of that extra TO to work out something.

 

[zeio]

Now you are just making noise - Ito has a right to say what she wants to say - it doesn't mean she is right or I agree with her, her argument was clearly out a desire to actually play in the Olympics and that is her desire and her business. Mizutani has a right to say what he wants to say. But he has no standing to tell Hayata or Ito that their medals are not real medals because they beat Wang Yidi or any nonsense like that. Everyone beats the player in front of them. And Harimoto's mother understood that because Mizutani has medals in the Olympics, he had standing to criticize Harimoto who went without medals in this Olympics, especially with the good chances they had, and she pointed out that Mizutani was the one that had to say it - of course, I don't completely agree with Mizutani but I agree he has standing on that one. And till now, you refuse to accept that point and keep going off in new tangents rather than sticking to the point which is that a medal is a medal well deserved, we can debate this and that about how hard it was to earn etc., but anyone who had seen Wang Yidi beat Ito all this while and then comes back to say that Ito didn't work on her game to beat Wang is just being a noisemaker. And the only one who has standing to criticize how it was earned is someone who has earned it.

My last words on this subject because you keep raising tangential points to avoid accepting the main point that has already been established. No one is talking about historical greatness or any other such trash - all we are discussing is whether it is worth listening seriously to people who criticize medal winners when those people have never won those medals (or better medals than those) they are criticizing people for winning. My position is no, your position is yes. We can agree to disagree. And you can continue posting your Tieba trash, but everyone can decide what attitude to take to someone who has never won anything but thinks he can pontificate on exactly how those who are winning should proceed.

See your bias here?

Mizutani never said Hayata's WTTC medal was not a real medal, but that it only met the bare minimum, which is what I argued as well, to which Harimoto also concurred, and yet you have a problem with their comments. OTOH, Ito's comment is viewed through rose-colored glasses by you when she was also missing a WTTC medal and to this day World Cup gold and ATTC gold. Enough with your double standard.

Once again, come up with a table tennis source to support your stance before you start going in circles again in the future.