Simon Gauzy was right or wrong in that point?

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The hawkeye is coming. There are no details yet though as to when and which events will feature it.

I think maybe in 20 years time

 

[Gtsnake]

All this controversy around edge balls can be easily solved. All you have to do is make the tables 20mm bigger. Half the size of the ball. That way if any ball hits an edge it is easily called out. Every ball that hits on the line has a true bounce and can be played normally. It's basically the same as tennis since there are no edges on a tennis court. It would be a better situation than tennis because you have an edge to determine an out shot where tennis relies on line judges or hawkeye.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Nee, niet van buiten de tafel. Van binnenuit de tafelafmetingen.
1°) Simplistische weergave van wat we zagen.

Zoals ik hierboven beschreef, raakt de bal de tafel, maar springt niet meer omhoog en valt gewoon naar beneden vanwege de zwaartekracht (en/of effect).

2°) De bal raakt echt de zijhoek van de tafel en springt daardoor omhoog.

Ik denk niet dat we situatie 1° vanuit onze ooghoeken kunnen beoordelen, maar de scheidsrechter aan de zijkant heeft dit misschien wel gezien. Hij had de bal op het contactpunt moeten zien opspringen. Als dit niet het geval is, is er sprake van situatie 1° en dus zijde, dus punt voor Simon.

Using google translate here to read what you wrote.

if it was the faintest of edge, then the ball will go down after the touch, making option 1, EDGE and not side.

Think about it, if the ball is flying into the path of the "side" of the table, it needs to touch edge before it can touch side. There is no where in that diagram to allow the ball to touch side without touching edge.
Thus the logic is, if the ball is travelling from inside the table (which in this case your diagram shows so), it can only touch edge.

Touching side only without edge (diagram below red line), would require the ball to curve in the reverse direction of how it is traveling and no one I know in the pro space can do that.
it is normally green that can make it happen, and the curve is in the same direction as the movement of the ball.
Red is swing left then swing right.... I'm waiting for someone to show me how to do this.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

No it is not clear. It is not because the ball hits the table that it is also edge. As far as I can see from that angle, that ball does not jump up at all but falls down from the side of the table (point of contact is on the right side of the ball). You can only speak of an edge ball if that ball makes an upward movement and I don't think that is the case here.

It's not sufficient that the ball falls downward to claim side. It does not have to jump up to be edge. The momentum of the ball is already downward so it can just nick the edge and still continue downward and just veer to the left which is what it appears to do in the slow motion video. The only way I can see a possibility for side if struck from within the table is if the ball was brushed from right to left and had enough curve to hit side. But you can see that the blade follow through was moving to the right.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

All this controversy around edge balls can be easily solved. All you have to do is make the tables 20mm bigger. Half the size of the ball. That way if any ball hits an edge it is easily called out. Every ball that hits on the line has a true bounce and can be played normally. It's basically the same as tennis since there are no edges on a tennis court. It would be a better situation than tennis because you have an edge to determine an out shot where tennis relies on line judges or hawkeye.

I once thought, make the sides very thin, so the whole "side" becomes edge

 

[Manto76]

All this controversy around edge balls can be easily solved. All you have to do is make the tables 20mm bigger. Half the size of the ball. That way if any ball hits an edge it is easily called out. Every ball that hits on the line has a true bounce and can be played normally. It's basically the same as tennis since there are no edges on a tennis court. It would be a better situation than tennis because you have an edge to determine an out shot where tennis relies on line judges or hawkeye.

But wouldn't the result of that be that it would become easy (or, at least, easier) to 'trap' your opponent by using half-long shots all the time?

In other words, serve so that the second bounce lands in the 'dead' zone beyond the line, but before the physical edge of the larger table. Likewise, push such that the second bounce lands in that zone.

To my mind, that would make opening the attack very risky unless you were presented with an easy opportunity, and easy opportunities don't come often at the elite level.

 

[Gtsnake]

But wouldn't the result of that be that it would become easy (or, at least, easier) to 'trap' your opponent by using half-long shots all the time?

In other words, serve so that the second bounce lands in the 'dead' zone beyond the line, but before the physical edge of the larger table. Likewise, push such that the second bounce lands in that zone.

To my mind, that would make opening the attack very risky unless you were presented with an easy opportunity, and easy opportunities don't come often at the elite level.

Say what??? if the ball lands on the edge of the line it would be a true bounce and played just like any other ball. There would be no advantage either way.

 

[Gtsnake]

I once thought, make the sides very thin, so the whole "side" becomes edge

The side of the table? There would still be an "edge". My point is to remove any edges in play.

 

[dingyibvs]

yes, your first diagram is the same level as the bird diagram and that is what Chuang's umpire said would happen.
So stupid as you say, does exist out there.


In theory, it is possible, but practically, you need to be far from the table, and give flight and swing. It needs a lot of space and time to curve the ball.
Chuang's example was mid rally, but he was from center of the table.
OP's example is a dead at the table, service return. but he was from BH corner.
Both examples, the ball did not go around the net, and it was a top down approach and not left to right approach.

There is no space to do it. One will need harry potter magic to do it.
and Chuang's umpire admitted it touch, and it was side.
The same umpire probably believes in the tooth fairy too.

It's not the same as the bird diagram. In the bird diagram the spin was able to overcome a translational movement that covers the distance longer than half the length of the table. In my diagram it was only able to to overcome a translational movement of a few inches.

 

[dingyibvs]

All this controversy around edge balls can be easily solved. All you have to do is make the tables 20mm bigger. Half the size of the ball. That way if any ball hits an edge it is easily called out. Every ball that hits on the line has a true bounce and can be played normally. It's basically the same as tennis since there are no edges on a tennis court. It would be a better situation than tennis because you have an edge to determine an out shot where tennis relies on line judges or hawkeye.

That would change how you play the game a lot though. You would no longer be able to start your swing from below the table against half-long balls as they'll take a second bounce on the outside zone.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The side of the table? There would still be an "edge". My point is to remove any edges in play.

the whole side is the edge

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It's not the same as the bird diagram. In the bird diagram the spin was able to overcome a translational movement that covers the distance longer than half the length of the table. In my diagram it was only able to to overcome a translational movement of a few inches.

its the same thing - impossible to swing the other way, since it is not football/soccer with so much space.

 

[RGo]

I think maybe in 20 years time

Next year's world championship, so unless we do an anime-style time skip, that should be within a year, not 20.

 

[Gtsnake]

the whole side is the edge

Well my point was to remove any vertical side so all bounces would only be from the horizontal surface.

 

[Gtsnake]

That would change how you play the game a lot though. You would no longer be able to start your swing from below the table against half-long balls as they'll take a second bounce on the outside zone.

We're talking 20mm here. Half the width of the ball.

 

[Metaxa]

Using google translate here to read what you wrote.

if it was the faintest of edge, then the ball will go down after the touch, making option 1, EDGE and not side.

Think about it, if the ball is flying into the path of the "side" of the table, it needs to touch edge before it can touch side. There is no where in that diagram to allow the ball to touch side without touching edge.
Thus the logic is, if the ball is travelling from inside the table (which in this case your diagram shows so), it can only touch edge.

Touching side only without edge (diagram below red line), would require the ball to curve in the reverse direction of how it is traveling and no one I know in the pro space can do that.
it is normally green that can make it happen, and the curve is in the same direction as the movement of the ball.
Red is swing left then swing right.... I'm waiting for someone to show me how to do this.

View attachment 29385

I don't know why you would draw red or green, neither situation occurred. Red is even obviously not possible as you write yourself, so why draw it as an example.
The point of contact right on the ball can perfectly hit the side of the table without hitting the edge since the ball falls from the top down via gravity. More than likely, in the above situation, there could only be a cigarette paper between ball & table.

 

[Manto76]

Say what??? if the ball lands on the edge of the line it would be a true bounce and played just like any other ball. There would be no advantage either way.

If I understand you correctly, the image below represents what you're suggesting.

If that's the case, then what I'm saying is that the creation of a 'dead zone' would incentivise playing lots of half-long shots that would have their second bounce in the dead zone. This would make opening the attack very risky, incentivise more 'passive' play, and would meaningfully change the whole game.

I think dingyibvs (at post #50) is saying the same thing as me.

Are we misunderstanding your suggestion?

 

[blahness]

If I understand you correctly, the image below represents what you're suggesting.

View attachment 29387

If that's the case, then what I'm saying is that the creation of a 'dead zone' would incentivise playing lots of half-long shots that would have their second bounce in the dead zone. This would make opening the attack very risky, incentivise more 'passive' play, and would meaningfully change the whole game.

I think dingyibvs (at post #50) is saying the same thing as me.

Are we misunderstanding your suggestion?

Yes - half long serves will be even more powerful than it is now, but it would just mean that the advantage will go firmly to chiquita + BH dominant players (who dont have the problem of the table in the way). It is also a disadvantage for shorter players because there is less reach to go for short balls...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I don't know why you would draw red or green, neither situation occurred. Red is even obviously not possible as you write yourself, so why draw it as an example.
The point of contact right on the ball can perfectly hit the side of the table without hitting the edge since the ball falls from the top down via gravity. More than likely, in the above situation, there could only be a cigarette paper between ball & table.

Because red and green are the only option to hit side and not edge
That is your option 1, which you are implying and I’m using a diagram to tell you that didn’t happen here

In your option 1, it can only be edge and impossible to be side
I have no idea why you say it is side. The ball didnt spin or curve like red or green

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Well my point was to remove any vertical side so all bounces would only be from the horizontal surface.

Maybe thinner than 20mm then
Or just invest in technology in the highest level