Rallies Getting Better With The New Ball!

I agree, as with anything when you're faced with change I was sceptical and didn't like how the new ball was different. But now that I'm used to it I feel like I wouldn't want to go back. Maybe it's just me but I also feel like I have more control when serving and can get them shorter.

Great post, yes I think the rallies are better to. The celluloid ball was quick and rapid, the plastic ball is slowing the game down forcing players to win through placement and tactics. That rally by Xu Xin and Zhu Linfeng is amazing

In, France, the question for all players primarily concerns weakness of those balls. In France we are still playing with celluloid balls because of that weakness. Fédération is likely afraid of loosing players if pvc balls will break so easily ...

I agree with this. I was a huge critic when this all started.

I still dislike Chinese seamed balls, though.

But I very much enjoy playing with seamless or Nittaku Premium.

I don't think there's a single person who would disagree that the new ball introduces longer rallies because of the slower speed and lower spin which give players more time to respond. I experienced that myself.
However, there is still a long way to go in terms of ball quality and down-to-earth ball prices; The plastic training balls are often horrible with uneven weight or defects in the sphere shape. I hope this will be solved in the next few months.

Personally I have mixed feelings from the new ball. On one hand, it allows us to enjoy longer rallies occasionally. On the other, the faster descent of the ball does it make it more difficult to handle. One can only look at Ovtcharov's games from a few months ago and earlier to see how many shots he missed.

A possible RE-NAME to the thread COULD be.......

*** Injuries INCREASE with increased use of new ball ***

I have seen... and heard of so many people getting injuries (both direct arm injuries like tendinitis or torns rotator cuff and shoulder) as players have to really put their all into the shot to get the ball to spin like it did (a mission impossible, but you can come close if you try) or most often, they strain to 120% in the shot to try to get the pace they used to have (you can try, but you won't quite make it).

Imagine players under pressure in a match (or practice after 30 min of straight high speed multiball) trying to hit a MAX power shot not in position, a little off time, and extended a bit, (even if in position using decent bio-mechanics) then they try real hard to add extra and BANG... the added strain directly rips up fibers... You also try to use other muscles you normally do not use (and are not trained and in condition to handle the extra demand) and rip them up fiber by fiber... then when you get a minor (but irritatingly painful) tiny grade one niggle tear, you start to avoid using explosiveness involving that muscle until it heals... and you end up tweaking another muscle to make another tiny grade one tear... and when someone really goes for the gusto sometimes it is a grade two tear. Usually it is an over-use accumulation of over-stress / strain that simply adds up.

It's not like I'm complaining... I did that already (quite LOUDLY when the rule for new ball came out) (wasn't a rule, but for all purposes it is) I am just telling it like it is. We ALL gotta deal with this.

violoniste18 said:

In, France, the question for all players primarily concerns weakness of those balls. In France we are still playing with celluloid balls because of that weakness. Fédération is likely afraid of loosing players if pvc balls will break so easily ...

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They should try using the XUSHAOFA ball - I've used the same one for 3 months! They are so much better than celluoid.

I think the ITTF have done a good job introducing the plastic ball. Now they just need to sort out their highlight videos on Youtube. Most of them are not even HD quality. It's so amateur. The best channel (ttcountenance) was done by a Polish guy. Unfortunately they banned him from uploading videos. It's a big loss.

The game is getting more physical...

It would be interesting to compare the actual distribution of lengths of rallies, say, in WTTC 2015, and WTTC 2013. It is not difficult to do, and may show interesting results.

I've been told by a friend of 2300/2400 USATT players roiding (no names, but assured that it is absolutely happening, more so at higher levels). I'm hard pressed to believe otherwise.

I think the next generation of TT players will not have to worry about the extra spin inducing stress on joints and muscles early on in their rocketing careers.

Also, I'm going to say it again. After recently watching the game between FZD an Eugene Wang, FZD has juiced (probably very early in his career). Watching him play is like watching a sprinter sprint a marathon averaging 4 min mile...uphill!

Roiding at 2300-2400? That is a pretty low level to be resorting to something that drastic. It's not like they will ever be professional players. Weird.

FZD juiced early in career? If he stopped later, the muscle would quickly atrophy back. That's how these things work.

Baal said:

Roiding at 2300-2400? That is a pretty low level to be resorting to something that drastic. It's not like they will ever be professional players. Weird.

FZD juiced early in career? If he stopped later, the muscle would quickly atrophy back. That's how these things work.

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I don't know nearly enough about AAS. I've heard about it being used more frequently in competitive sports than people realize (from personal trainers, gym stories and such), especially at the high school level. Could maintaining an intense workout regiment and proper caloric intake prolong the effects from wearing off?

It would certainly delay it but not prevent it, and he has been playing in tournaments where they check for these things for a quite long time now in the really big ITTF events. So I do not suspect him of that. He has just trained harder and more intensely for so long against such constant high level competition, and with constant coaching. So it is hard to even believe how good guys like this are, they are almost like video games now. Like watching Stef Currey shoot threes. It's not roids, it's skills honed beyond comprehension.

As for some of the lower level players you mention, there are fools everywhere, and so I don't have problems imagining this.

Getting back to the balls, I think as people get more accustomed to them injuries will decline.

Speaking for myself, not a professional player, not that young, does anybody else experience almost more injuries playing on these red Gerflor surfaces?

Almost all steroids have negative effects on concentration, the only one which is somehow "good" for TT is cocaine but it is easy to detect so there is no reason to take it. Steroids are not for TT, no player was ever caught with valid proof, LGL and ovtcharov had problems with steroid accusations once, but it turned out that LGL produced much more testosterone than normal and dima eaten contaminated meat.

Steroids are not needed in a purely mental/tactical game like table tennis

TTFrenzy said:

Almost all steroids have negative effects on concentration, the only one which is somehow "good" for TT is cocaine but it is easy to detect so there is no reason to take it. Steroids are not for TT, no player was ever caught with valid proof, LGL and ovtcharov had problems with steroid accusations once, but it turned out that LGL produced much more testosterone than normal and dima eaten contaminated meat.

Steroids are not needed in a purely mental/tactical game like table tennis

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I like this post. There is good info here. But one thing should be pointed out: cocaine is not a steroid. Cocaine is a stimulant. It definitely could improve performance on a once in a while basis. But it is extremely addictive and it could make a player's game strategy and touch go out the window.

But when defensive linemen on American football teams play, that could enhance their game performance. For example: when Lawrence Taylor broke Joe Theismann's leg and ended the guys career, I would be willing to put money on it that he was doing blow. And when they caught his drug use and he tried to play without, he was a step or two slower and less powerful. But also, he played less recklessly. Which in football doesn't always work but in TT that would usually be better, particularly for the strategy part.


Sent from the Oracle of Delphi by the Pythia

TTFrenzy said:

...and dima eaten contaminated meat.

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Heheh, that sounds more than a little bit implausible to me.
Where can you get accidentally steroid-contaminated meat these days?
If that was the explanation, I'm not sure I'll ever accept a dinner invitation from him. Or his wife for that matter! Heheh.
Anyways, it made me chuckle

Back on topic: about balls and a more physical game.
Yes, I believe the game will require a slightly stronger body and higher fitness with the new ball, specifically when playing at higher levels.

I do not believe this to be anything unnatural or inherently dangerous however. Granted, we see some injuries that may or may not be caused by the new ball, but we do not know as there is no scientific evidence or proof of that yet as far as I know. In my view, it's a matter of adaption as a part of natural evolution.

What I mean is that all eras of all sports have required different levels of fitness and strength. The best American football players of the 70's would most likely suffer a lot more injuries if they played in today's game as they are simply not strong and fit enough for it. Same goes for football proper (you know the one where you actually use your feet ;-). Yesteryears players would suffer many more injuries if they tried to cope with the demands of the modern game. Their bodies have not been honed or shaped to be able to withstand those levels of exertion.

I reckon this applies to TT as well. Today's players may be slightly more injury prone due to the new ball (or whatever) and what it requires the player to do, but I believe the next generation will be fine as all training schemes develop according to the demands put on athletes. Future players will be "built" or "designed" to withstand the demands of the new era and thus suffer less injuries.

In today's sport, a lot of time goes into prevention of injuries in training. That will not change, only the methods and exercise will be adapted to the new requirements. The way I see it, we will see more capable and prepared players in the future and injuries will remain steady or hopefully decline.

Yes, rallies are longer and more attractive now with the new ball. I really like it, but I'm still not head over heels in love (dunno why exactly). That said, the seamless ones are excellent quality and play very well. Overall it's been a change for the better, IMHO.

there are some drugs that can help table tennis play substantially. for example: adderall. what adderall does is give you more focus and more energy. it also dehydrates you so you'll have to drink more water. it will speed up your heart rate substantially and if you overexert yourself with your driven focus while on the drug you will have a heart attack. you won't even know that you were overexerting your body, it just feels like you have boundless energy.

lastly, adderall takes about 2 days to leave your system, so its easy to not get detected if you're a user.
cocaine on the other hand leaves the system in approximately one day. theres a reason why users of drugs on probation that have to get hair follicle tests will only do cocaine or mushrooms. they're the hardest to detect.

TTFrenzy said:

Almost all steroids have negative effects on concentration, the only one which is somehow "good" for TT is cocaine but it is easy to detect so there is no reason to take it. Steroids are not for TT, no player was ever caught with valid proof, LGL and ovtcharov had problems with steroid accusations once, but it turned out that LGL produced much more testosterone than normal and dima eaten contaminated meat.

Steroids are not needed in a purely mental/tactical game like table tennis

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Ovctcharov was not accused of taking a steroid. He was accused of using clenbuterol, a completely different kind of drug known as a beta-adrenergic agonist. It is used outside the US for treatment of asthma (in the US other drugs of the same class are used). It causes some muscle hypertrophy (growth), although the evidence suggests that it causes increases in muscle size more than strength. It does this by mechanisms quite different from those used by anabolic steroids. Clenbuterol also stimulates fat breakdown, mainly in liver.

Clenbuterol hhas been widely used illicitly to increase growth of animals used for meat production, especially for pork in China. There was a case there, in 2006, when about 400 people in Shanghai were hospitalized for clenbuterol poisoning from eating tainted meat. A similar case happened with about 80 people in Guangdong province in 2009. It is still prevalent in the food supply there and occasional poisonings are still reported from this.

It is not safe, especially for anyone with heart issues or diabetes. It has substantial cardiovascular risk profile, and there are reports of tumors induced by long-term use.

WADA ultimately decided Ovtcharov's story was true, and they rarely let anyone off the hook.

(I study this kind of thing for a living).

brabhamista said:

Heheh, that sounds more than a little bit implausible to me.
Where can you get accidentally steroid-contaminated meat these days?
If that was the explanation, I'm not sure I'll ever accept a dinner invitation from him. Or his wife for that matter! Heheh.
Anyways, it made me chuckle

Back on topic: about balls and a more physical game.
Yes, I believe the game will require a slightly stronger body and higher fitness with the new ball, specifically when playing at higher levels.

I do not believe this to be anything unnatural or inherently dangerous however. Granted, we see some injuries that may or may not be caused by the new ball, but we do not know as there is no scientific evidence or proof of that yet as far as I know. In my view, it's a matter of adaption as a part of natural evolution.

What I mean is that all eras of all sports have required different levels of fitness and strength. The best American football players of the 70's would most likely suffer a lot more injuries if they played in today's game as they are simply not strong and fit enough for it. Same goes for football proper (you know the one where you actually use your feet ;-). Yesteryears players would suffer many more injuries if they tried to cope with the demands of the modern game. Their bodies have not been honed or shaped to be able to withstand those levels of exertion.

I reckon this applies to TT as well. Today's players may be slightly more injury prone due to the new ball (or whatever) and what it requires the player to do, but I believe the next generation will be fine as all training schemes develop according to the demands put on athletes. Future players will be "built" or "designed" to withstand the demands of the new era and thus suffer less injuries.

In today's sport, a lot of time goes into prevention of injuries in training. That will not change, only the methods and exercise will be adapted to the new requirements. The way I see it, we will see more capable and prepared players in the future and injuries will remain steady or hopefully decline.

Yes, rallies are longer and more attractive now with the new ball. I really like it, but I'm still not head over heels in love (dunno why exactly). That said, the seamless ones are excellent quality and play very well. Overall it's been a change for the better, IMHO.

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read baal's post please it has your answers.