Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

NextLevel said:

To be fair to Gene, it is easier when you are young. Old age makes you more conservative generally, but we have to remember that in Table tennis, losing the point is far less consequential than losing in other things in life.

The other problem is that when better players make you take those shots, you feel you would have lost the point anyways so you don't really care. But with worse players, missing those shots leaves that doubt that maybe you could have won with less risk. The trap is extremely seductive but can only be rectified by accepting the need to play properly against all levels of players.

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NextLevel,
I get your point. Looping the returns will at least have me on the offensive and I do tend to lose more when I am defensive or tentative. The higher rated players seldom gave me a log serve. Perhaps one or two per game and it was when they caught me trying to cheat up to the table and try a backhand flick on their serve or moving to the left to use my forehand more.. Then they would give me the fast serve deep to my forehand... It does frustrate me when I am hoping that I can get something long to loop and when I finally get one I am out of position. I need to wait until they are committed to make my shift but my timing needs improvement. I do appreciate your advice.

If pushing long underspin balls and deep serves gives you a better chance to win, then you probably aren't at a high enough level to care about winning in the first place. Sounds harsh, but that's how I see it. Assuming you are a looper of course...

(BTW This is just a general comment directed towards everyone, not anyone in particular)

Gene Tuttle said:

NextLevel,
I get your point. Looping the returns will at least have me on the offensive and I do tend to lose more when I am defensive or tentative. The higher rated players seldom gave me a log serve. Perhaps one or two per game and it was when they caught me trying to cheat up to the table and try a backhand flick on their serve or moving to the left to use my forehand more.. Then they would give me the fast serve deep to my forehand... It does frustrate me when I am hoping that I can get something long to loop and when I finally get one I am out of position. I need to wait until they are committed to make my shift but my timing needs improvement. I do appreciate your advice.

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One of the skills I had to build was to know how to tell a serve was or wasn't long. I am 95% sure that the higher level player gave you some half long serves, it's just harder to read and loop those if you are not used to it or if you think you don't have the loop timing. Looping footwork also feels more involved than pushing. It will be interesting to see the balance you have struck in the video.

Trained with the newbie today.

He's starting to *really* topspin a bit. I kept telling him to "do a real topspin" and to "drop the pussy shit" and he eventually got it with enough direction.

Even to me, it's nothing threatening, but it really does jump at me much faster than I would expect from someone his level. In drills at least. If he catches me sleeping or off-position, he can get it past me.

I've noticed that the more topspin I get from my opponents, the better I can play my own game. It's just so much smoother when the game is spin oriented.

Boogar said:

This is such an underrated skill! I struggle a lot if i can't read the length of my opponents serve.

Is there a good way to practice this? I guess just playing against different opponents and learn it with your body.
Another good tell might be the first bounce, but at my level thats misleading sometimes... because long serves aren't all that fast and can still bounce first near the net. Most of the times im too slow to realise and end up stepping into a long serve.

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Usually a tight serve is rare at the levels below 2400. It is usually short and high or low and long - short and low and spinny is not common.

The first rule is that at the lower levels, all serves to the forehand are long or half long. If they are short, they are high enough to be looped over the table.

The second thing is that if you get into the habit of waiting for serves to come long so you can loop them, your opponent will try to serve short to avoid your attack and his quality of serve will drop radically.

The third thing is to develop a good short backhand loop. In my backhand days, I used to just loop and attack anything that came to my backhand. I had no forward flick I even used go sometimes use my backhand on forehand side so I didn't have to push. But when I got my loops better I started waiting for the ball to come long and either loop it or loop kill it. If I changed my mind at the last second I would push long and late bUT the risk reward was always worth it. It just takes patience and practice.

You can do a drill with your friends but you will learn quickly if you have good strokes that they do not know how to serve short. I have the best short serves in my club and my serves drift long a lot. Sometimes it is because if you have fooled people into being burned by short serves you can start serving half long and seeing if they adapt. It can be risky but if they fall for it, it is the best.

Got a lot of forum to catch up on.

Yesterday, NCTTA we won divisionals. Woo! I wen't undefeated throughout my 9 matches but I also didn't play anyone that really challenged me (other than our doubles match).


The doubles match is what decided who won divisionals. Me and my Partner, both sub 1800. took down their team of a 2200 and 1600 duo for the win.

Looping "leaky" serves is indeed a very useful skill. My problem is that I when I try to loop, I often loop it too softly. I guess the reason is that I am often not sure of the spin and/or not in the best position for the shot, so I "play it safe." I guess it will take a long, long time before I can aggressively loop "junk" serves.

Ilia Minkin said:

Looping "leaky" serves is indeed a very useful skill. My problem is that I when I try to loop, I often loop it too softly. I guess the reason is that I am often not sure of the spin and/or not in the best position for the shot, so I "play it safe." I guess it will take a long, long time before I can aggressively loop "junk" serves.

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It's racket head speed and brush and estimating the spin. Racket head speed is what gives you confidence to loop, don't believe anything else. If you can overpower the ball, then you know that you just have to estimate the spin in the right range. Even if you play it safe, you should be able to load the ball up so much that only someone who is used to dealing with heavy spin can handle it easily.

NextLevel said:

It's racket head speed and brush and estimating the spin. Racket head speed is what gives you confidence to loop, don't believe anything else. If you can overpower the ball, then you know that you just have to estimate the spin in the right range. Even if you play it safe, you should be able to load the ball up so much that only someone who is used to dealing with heavy spin can handle it easily.

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That is true. I just get caught sometimes out of position by a fast serve or a sudden change of direction, especially when I look to pivot on the receive.

Ilia Minkin said:

That is true. I just get caught sometimes out of position by a fast serve or a sudden change of direction, especially when I look to pivot on the receive.

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Yeah, that happens to even the world class players. It's really more the pushing of long balls that is the issue, not being deceived as to where the ball is going.

Boogar said:

^^This! I did exactly this in my finals match. At first i had minor problems with his long serves, then i started looping every long serve with my forehand and he started serving short balls who were very easy for me to take advantage of.

I heard his coach saying, that he should serve short - after i hit return winner after return winner.

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Serving short is a discipline/habit - it is not something you do upon demand. If you don't know how to do it, you don't know how to do it. It's best to have a good mixed strategy of quality short and long serves so you can then adapt to opponents, but if don't waste your time trying to serve short with quality if you don't practice doing it.

SchemeSC said:

If pushing long underspin balls and deep serves gives you a better chance to win, then you probably aren't at a high enough level to care about winning in the first place. Sounds harsh, but that's how I see it. Assuming you are a looper of course...

(BTW This is just a general comment directed towards everyone, not anyone in particular)

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I always thought that someone's level and 'caring about winning' are pretty much independent - I see a lot of lower level players fighting in their matches and being unhappy about losses, even at their relatively lower level.


Unless I misunderstood you, of course

pgpg said:

I always thought that someone's level and 'caring about winning' are pretty much independent - I see a lot of lower level players fighting in their matches and being unhappy about losses, even at their relatively lower level.


Unless I misunderstood you, of course

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What he meant was that your focus should be on doing the right strokes not on winning. I know what he means but it is always complicated of course.

NextLevel said:

What he meant was that your focus should be on doing the right strokes not on winning. I know what he means but it is always complicated of course.

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OK, fair enough - I can see this being applied to practice matches, which are, well, practice. If match matters, though - you should be doing whatever gives you best chance to win. If it means pushing long serves today because your loop attempts mean automatic point to your opponent, then so be it. Two months from now, may be you'll get to looping them

NextLevel said:

What he meant was that your focus should be on doing the right strokes not on winning. I know what he means but it is always complicated of course.

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One of the things I like about my coach/training partner is that he will make fun of me and bully me mercilessly if I ever pass up a 3rd ball attack opportunity or play passively in general. It doesn't matter if I won the point or not. One single passive stroke and I know I'm gonna get it.

pgpg said:

OK, fair enough - I can see this being applied to practice matches, which are, well, practice. If match matters, though - you should be doing whatever gives you best chance to win. If it means pushing long serves today because your loop attempts mean automatic point to your opponent, then so be it. Two months from now, may be you'll get to looping them

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Spoken like a true chopper. I know what you mean though.

SchemeSC said:

One of the things I like about my coach/training partner is that he will make fun of me and bully me mercilessly if I ever pass up a 3rd ball attack opportunity or play passively in general. It doesn't matter if I won the point or not. One single passive stroke and I know I'm gonna get it.

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Yes. It's never that simple though. Sometimes your reluctance to take the shot is based on a subconscious read of the situation. It's more important to have footage for you to figure out why you passed up the shot. I agree if you were in position and read the ball perfectly that you should be mocked.